"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
The asking price on the 1990 35s5 was 64'900.00. After seeing what a
creampuff the boat was I decided to discuss an offer prior to the
survey.

Excuse me? You normally do a survey before having an accepted offer??



Doug, I've negotiated more than 30 closings in the last 15 months.
There are plenty of ways to make a deal and who you're dealing with has
a lot to do with it. The professional survey found very little that I
missed and the owner comped on every item. When a boat is like new, you
don't have to be a prick about the buying process. And we still got a
better deal than anyone else has on 35s5's not even close to this
condition. My offer was still pending survey and the survey estimated
value of 69K would not have helped me at all. I knew that as soon as I
did the survey. If you know what you're doing and find a creampuff, you
should know that a glowing survey can COST you. I correctly made a low
offer prior to a survey I anticipated.


Now you could always talk to the
surveyor about lowballing the value, but then you might have a tough
time getting a nice insurance package to match her "real" value.

If you pay for the survey, he has no duty to disclose anything to the
selling party.

Now I know you are lying!!!!!!



And so it goes. I always advise buyers to understand that surveyors can
work for and against you...they walk a fine line. Doug, you have to
think it through. Now go find me a better 35s5 for even the original
asking price of 64.9K. Keep in mind that I have checked on most of
them.

RB
35s5
NY

In article . com,
Capt. Rob wrote:
The brokers I've worked with insist on a written and accepted offer
before you have any kind of survey or sea trial.

Yup, in most cases. In this case the owner and I came to an agreement
and I put down a small deposit, signed contract for deal pending
survey. But we had a pretty honest discussion and both knew the market.
Nobody wanted to play hardball to save 60 cents. We got a very good
deal and the boat is simply one of a kind due to her condition. Surveys
are cheaper in Florida!

Well, if you signed an offer, then you had one before the survey.
Didn't you just say that you didn't have an offer on the table before
the survey?

Seems like the honesty of the discussion has little to do with what
the survey would find. It's never a bad thing to tell the owner that
you're not interested in cheaping out, but you said yourself that
there were issues that the surveyor found and that were then
negotiated.

How much do they go for in Florida? Out here, they're a couple of
hundred, maybe a bit more for something truly immense. We had one done
for the Yamaha 30, which I believe was $300. The Cal 39 was about
$350 I think.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article t,
Bob Crantz wrote:
If you pay for the survey, he has no duty to disclose anything to the
selling party.

True, but we've always authorized it as a matter of course. We usually
say up front that if we decide not to accept the boat, the owner gets
the survey and they pay for the haul and splash. Or, they can pay for
the survey and we pay for the haul and splash. It usually works out to
be about the same cost on either side.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Well, if you signed an offer, then you had one before the survey.
Didn't you just say that you didn't have an offer on the table before
the survey?


No. The OWNER and I had an offer we agreed on. Doug was claiming that
we shouldn't have made an offer before survey. Who does that? What doug
doesn't get is I did my own pre-purchase survey. I didn't fly to
Florida to just look at the boat. I sounded her decks and checked every
system. I made my offer based on that. As it turned out my survey was
every bit as good as the professional one. I missed two bad hoses
because I didn't climb into the sail locker.

RB
35s5
NY

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Well, if you signed an offer, then you had one before the survey.

Do you really think so?
Sounds like more waffling & backpedaling to me, Bubbles doesn't know
diddley about the process of buying a boat because he's never bought
one. But he has heard people talking about surveys, so he thought he
should get one too.



How much do they go for in Florida? Out here, they're a couple of
hundred, maybe a bit more for something truly immense. We had one done
for the Yamaha 30, which I believe was $300. The Cal 39 was about
$350 I think.


Over here they charge by the foot or by the day. I should think any
surveyor in Florida worth a hoot is probably busy with insurance claims
on hurricane boats right now. It sounds like surveys are cheaper where
you are.

BTW I'm bummed nobody had a comment about the Swan!

DSK

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

. As it turned out my survey was
every bit as good as the professional one.

Except for the sail, right?

I missed two good hoses
because I didn't climb into the sail locker.

I bet you're sad about that.


RB
35s5
NY

In article ,
DSK wrote:
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Well, if you signed an offer, then you had one before the survey.

Do you really think so?
Sounds like more waffling & backpedaling to me, Bubbles doesn't know
diddley about the process of buying a boat because he's never bought
one. But he has heard people talking about surveys, so he thought he
should get one too.

I don't know. I'm totally confused at this point. The latest post from
Bob claims that you didn't think an offer should be made prior to
survey. Did I get that right? I can't imagine it. No broker out here
would allow that.

How much do they go for in Florida? Out here, they're a couple of
hundred, maybe a bit more for something truly immense. We had one done
for the Yamaha 30, which I believe was $300. The Cal 39 was about
$350 I think.

Over here they charge by the foot or by the day. I should think any
surveyor in Florida worth a hoot is probably busy with insurance claims
on hurricane boats right now. It sounds like surveys are cheaper where
you are.

I thought they did out here, but we have a standing relationship with
a broker, so I'm not sure how he's giving us a discount for volume.

BTW I'm bummed nobody had a comment about the Swan!

I like Swans. :-)
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Sounds like more waffling & backpedaling to me, Bubbles doesn't know
diddley about the process of buying a boat because he's never bought
one. But he has heard people talking about surveys, so he thought he
should "get" one too.


Jonathan Ganz wrote:
I don't know. I'm totally confused at this point. The latest post from
Bob claims that you didn't think an offer should be made prior to
survey.

???
I never said anything like that

No broker out here
would allow that.


I'm not sure, but paying for a survey with no offer accepted would be
stupid... hey wait, this is Boobsie after all...

DSK

In article .com,
Capt. Rob wrote:
Well, if you signed an offer, then you had one before the survey.
Didn't you just say that you didn't have an offer on the table before
the survey?


No. The OWNER and I had an offer we agreed on. Doug was claiming that
we shouldn't have made an offer before survey. Who does that? What doug
doesn't get is I did my own pre-purchase survey. I didn't fly to
Florida to just look at the boat. I sounded her decks and checked every
system. I made my offer based on that. As it turned out my survey was
every bit as good as the professional one. I missed two bad hoses
because I didn't climb into the sail locker.

I don't think Doug was claiming that. I think he was saying, as I am,
that one needs to make an official offer before having a survey. It
sounds like you did that.

Anyone can do an inspection if the owner is agreeable, but that's not
the same thing as a surveyor doing it. There are some things that a
surveyor won't look for too. But, you do need it to get insurance. For
example, when we are approached with a donation boat, a couple of us
take a detailed look. If it passes that, then we accept the donation
contingent upon the survey. This gives us and the person donating a
value for the tax man. If we were going to buy a boat, we would do the
same thing, but prior to the survey we would create a formal offer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
The asking price on the 1990 35s5 was 64'900.00. After seeing what a
creampuff the boat was I decided to discuss an offer prior to the
survey. Part of the problem was her location of course. It would be
tough to fight over the price and I wanted to keep things freindly. As
I had gone over the boat carefully(But not the bottom as she was in the
water), I knew I'd probably found the diamond I was looking for. We
settled on 59K pending survey and I promised that I wouldn't nickle and
dime over little things. As it turned out...new fuel hose and waste
hose were suggested and that was it.
BUT, the Mylar mainsail had delamination. Not bad, but a repair
wouldn't last forever and I felt the sail was a 4 out of 10 at best. We
agreed I could get a used mylar main for 2000.00 or a new regular main
from Doyle and the price of the boat was adjusted for that. The owner
still felt bad about the main and paid 350 bucks to have it repaired
anyway. The Mylar headsails were well shaped, but somewhat dirty. Oh
well. The two Doyle chutes were as new. The dacron 120% was in good
condition, a 7 out 10 perhaps. All of her standing rod rigging was
replaced 9 months ago. The surveyor felt the seacock for sink and air
conditioner were in a bad location and the owner paid to have better
access via a new removable panel. The Charles charger was also acting
funny...but I have a new unused 30 amp unit in my closet. On a 92
degree day the interior was quite cold even with the hatches
open...19000 BTUs is a nice thing! All of the portlights had NO crazing
as they had canvas covers protecting them! There was even one for the
lexan companionway hatch with a zipper down cover. A new dodger and
bimini were never installed and our wrapped up in his garage! Her
engine started instantly and ran smoothly. Engine/shaft alignment was
noted to be excellent and there was about the same level of vibration I
noted on my friend's Tayana 48 DS.
The surveyor said she was probably the best 35s5 on the market and of
course I already knew that. We quickly arranged shipping and closed.
After speaking to other 35s5 owners who bought boats over the past 3
years we paid less and got a boat in simply amazing shape. Nothing I
can say will show this properly until I post pics. Her interior and
topsides look almost unused! All of her running rigging, Air
conditioner, electronics and so on are recent or new. Survey value was
set just below 70K and she has been insured for that amount.
Her owner was at the helm of Ted Turner's winning boat during Fastnet
1979. He's a local legend down there. When I mentioned the boat and his
name to the folks at Doyle and UK they all knew and had raced with him.
At 73 he's keeping his Tartan 10. This was his second 35s5, but a bad
hip and knee make it a tough go, so he decided to sell. I'm grateful
for the upgrades and care he's shown the boat and passed on to me. My
buddy who used to work at my yard took a look at her yesterday and said
"My god, looks like a new boat!" He's not overstating her condition.
It's really quite amazing.
That's it, folks. She's ours. We wrote a check, dropped the Doc and
registered her at DMV today. If all goes smoothly, she'll be offloaded
at my yard on the 23rd. And then it'll be a long winter waiting for the
Spring! Pictures will be posted shortly...probably on the 22nd when we
get back and then on the 23rd when she comes home!


Robert B
35s5
NY


Low Retail Average Retail
Base Price

$51,150 $61,600
Options

Sailboat: CANVAS
Mainsail Cover: $60 $70
Sailboat: ELECTRONICS
Battery Charger - 20 Amp-110 Volt: $135 $160
Radio / 25 Watt VHF - Fixed Mount: $140 $170
Wind System Display - Masthead Transducer: $230 $275
Sailboat: GALLEY
Refrigerator - 12 Volt/DC: $290 $345
Sink Package S.S.-Hand Pump - 15 Gallon: $90 $110
Stove - Portable Propane: $60 $70
Sailboat: MISCELLANEOUS OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT
Swim Ladder - Teak: $90 $110

TOTAL PRICE $52,245 $62,910

YOU PAID ON THE HIGH END FOR THAT THING. ADD THE SHIPPING COST AND YOU
OVERPAID!!!!

THOSE ARE FLORIDA PRICES TOO!!!!!!

AAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!