Capt. Neal® wrote:

Some information you do not have that is skewing your thoughts is
Haight and Ganz have been netKKKoping me for over five years.
Both have a history of complaining to my ISPs and attempting to
get me tossed. Both brag about doing so.

The other side of this coin is that if you use ISPs that have a specific
TOS, then you either conduct yourself within those TOS or risk the
consequences of stepping outwith them. I'm sure you'd agree that there is
something to be said for making an informed choice, and taking responsiblity
for one's choices. In short, if you're going to push the envelope with
people you believe will netcop you, while using an ISP that may be
sympathetic to their netcopping, then it's your own lookout. You're blaming
them for your own errors.

Like I said to LP, there *are* rules, whether we like it or not. The
Databasix people evidently have a TOS that is rather different from the
typical commercial ISP, but even they must place limits on what their users
can do, to the extent that offenders will get booted if they place the
service at risk. A couple of years ago, my own ISP was doing too little
about open relays connected to its servers - it was becoming a serious spam
source and notice was served that it had to clean up its act wthin a given
period of time or it would get booted off the net by means of its peering
partners withdrawing their connections (I believe other interested parties
who might otherwise become peering partners were also involved).

I'm sure Databasix aren't into so much 'freedom' that they'll risk getting
themselves isolated from the net. I'm willing to bet that they don't
include, for instance, mass spam mailings of kiddie porn or snuff movies in
their definition of 'freedom of speech'. If the usenet server-providing
community is willing to serve notice of a death sentence on one of the UK's
biggest ISPs, then I don't think they'd have much compunction about
disconnecting what, I assume, is comparatively small fry.

There are always rules, Neal. They might not be clear-cut, or consistent in
all environments, but they're always there in one form or another. The trick
is know what they are and to play your game within them. If you don't, you
get shafted sooner or later.


I'm a patient man. I waited and bided my time hoping they would
get bored and go away.

You kept running risks vis-a-vis your conduct and that allowed by your
ISP(s). You were responsible for that conduct, and you therefore took the
risk.


"They" did not cross post to get the flonkers involved. Show
me the post where I cross posted to do so, please.

If I'm in error regarding this, then I apologise. I confess that I've found
this episode insufficiently interesting to read everything in detail,
certainly not to the extent of doing research into who cross-posted
precisely what, and when.

To be frank, this episode has been annoying and disruptive. I don't come in
here to wade through piles of **** just because you keep treading on the
wrong side of the line when there are people willing to grass you up for
doing so - that's not my concern, and it's not my problem. As a general
rule, I don't killfile. I object to being admonished to waste my time
engaging in unneccessary computer admin, killfiling disruptor after
disruptor, just because a few people can't behave themselves, or can't play
the game by the (ISP) rules they choose and accept when they take on a
connection service. I've done mass killfiling before, but I'm very
disinclined to do it again. I have better things to do with my life than
clean other people's **** out of my face. My objection to people who
deliberately disrupt, and then tell me to remove some of whatever amount of
life I have left to get rid of them, is complete and absolute.

Your ISP's rules, your behaviour, your ****-up. You can sit and justify your
latest reaction to yourself all you like, but you'll never convince me.
Having given the foregoing your most careful consideration, would you care
to elucidate your position on personal responsiblity as it applies to you in
this context? How would that elucidation sit with your views on the matter
in the context of good seamanship? And what about within the context of your
general philosophy of life? I ask that last question because I gather that
you see good seamanship, and the attitudes it enshrines, as inextricably
linked to one's philosophy on life itself.


Those monitoring my
posts were aware of the netcops and LP crossposting
was an after-the-fact situation.

You better tell LP that the ego-feed isn't all hers, then: "What brought
these posters over here is me cross-posting KATY's posts to people who
believe in freedom of speech."


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

No. Excellent post. Get with it Donal.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Wally" wrote in message
...
snip
As I said to LP in another post, all we really have here is personas.
Outside of those we've met in real life, we don't really know the person
behind the poster. In spite of that, I've often wondered who I would go
for
a sail with if I ever found myself on the other side of the pond. For all
his invective, Neal was one of them - but not in the present climate.

Good post, Wally.



Regards



Donal
--

Neal is so totally full of it, he's leaking from the years.

He claims that I've been netcoping him for years, and that I've bragged
about it. However, he's unable to show a single post with me doing that.
He's a liar. Nothing new.

I can't speak to what Katy has or hasn't done. Certainly, if she did rat him
out to his ISP, he deserved it. I have no problem with that.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Capt. Neal® wrote:

Some information you do not have that is skewing your thoughts is
Haight and Ganz have been netKKKoping me for over five years.
Both have a history of complaining to my ISPs and attempting to
get me tossed. Both brag about doing so.

The other side of this coin is that if you use ISPs that have a specific
TOS, then you either conduct yourself within those TOS or risk the
consequences of stepping outwith them. I'm sure you'd agree that there is
something to be said for making an informed choice, and taking
responsiblity
for one's choices. In short, if you're going to push the envelope with
people you believe will netcop you, while using an ISP that may be
sympathetic to their netcopping, then it's your own lookout. You're
blaming
them for your own errors.

Like I said to LP, there *are* rules, whether we like it or not. The
Databasix people evidently have a TOS that is rather different from the
typical commercial ISP, but even they must place limits on what their
users
can do, to the extent that offenders will get booted if they place the
service at risk. A couple of years ago, my own ISP was doing too little
about open relays connected to its servers - it was becoming a serious
spam
source and notice was served that it had to clean up its act wthin a given
period of time or it would get booted off the net by means of its peering
partners withdrawing their connections (I believe other interested parties
who might otherwise become peering partners were also involved).

I'm sure Databasix aren't into so much 'freedom' that they'll risk getting
themselves isolated from the net. I'm willing to bet that they don't
include, for instance, mass spam mailings of kiddie porn or snuff movies
in
their definition of 'freedom of speech'. If the usenet server-providing
community is willing to serve notice of a death sentence on one of the
UK's
biggest ISPs, then I don't think they'd have much compunction about
disconnecting what, I assume, is comparatively small fry.

There are always rules, Neal. They might not be clear-cut, or consistent
in
all environments, but they're always there in one form or another. The
trick
is know what they are and to play your game within them. If you don't, you
get shafted sooner or later.


I'm a patient man. I waited and bided my time hoping they would
get bored and go away.

You kept running risks vis-a-vis your conduct and that allowed by your
ISP(s). You were responsible for that conduct, and you therefore took the
risk.


"They" did not cross post to get the flonkers involved. Show
me the post where I cross posted to do so, please.

If I'm in error regarding this, then I apologise. I confess that I've
found
this episode insufficiently interesting to read everything in detail,
certainly not to the extent of doing research into who cross-posted
precisely what, and when.

To be frank, this episode has been annoying and disruptive. I don't come
in
here to wade through piles of **** just because you keep treading on the
wrong side of the line when there are people willing to grass you up for
doing so - that's not my concern, and it's not my problem. As a general
rule, I don't killfile. I object to being admonished to waste my time
engaging in unneccessary computer admin, killfiling disruptor after
disruptor, just because a few people can't behave themselves, or can't
play
the game by the (ISP) rules they choose and accept when they take on a
connection service. I've done mass killfiling before, but I'm very
disinclined to do it again. I have better things to do with my life than
clean other people's **** out of my face. My objection to people who
deliberately disrupt, and then tell me to remove some of whatever amount
of
life I have left to get rid of them, is complete and absolute.

Your ISP's rules, your behaviour, your ****-up. You can sit and justify
your
latest reaction to yourself all you like, but you'll never convince me.
Having given the foregoing your most careful consideration, would you care
to elucidate your position on personal responsiblity as it applies to you
in
this context? How would that elucidation sit with your views on the matter
in the context of good seamanship? And what about within the context of
your
general philosophy of life? I ask that last question because I gather that
you see good seamanship, and the attitudes it enshrines, as inextricably
linked to one's philosophy on life itself.


Those monitoring my
posts were aware of the netcops and LP crossposting
was an after-the-fact situation.

You better tell LP that the ego-feed isn't all hers, then: "What brought
these posters over here is me cross-posting KATY's posts to people who
believe in freedom of speech."


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

It was a good post Wally. I had to say so before I just back off to this
whole blown up mess. Good sense goes out the window when a Broad gets
involved.

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

"Wally" wrote ...

.. In spite of that, I've often wondered who I would go for
a sail with if I ever found myself on the other side of the pond.

Well, if you're ever in the Baltimore area..........

Scotty

Freedom of speech is all well and good, up to a point, which you
crossed, Neal. You needed to be censored.

SV


"Capt. Neal®" wrote

It just so happened that when I joined Databasix, some
interested people were monitoring my posts. They look
out after their own interests and have been fighting for
freedom of speech for a long time. They expend a lot
of time and energy in a noble pursuit against censorship
and I, for one appreciate the haven they provide. They
do news right and that's a fact. Those monitoring my
posts were aware of the netcops and LP crossposting
was an after-the-fact situation.

You seem to be pretty bright but jumping to conclusions
can lead to false statements that tend to invalidate
what otherwise would be a decent summary.

CN

Let me see if I have this straight.
Neal put great effort into goading Katy & Jon to report him.
Neal wanted then to report him.
And NOW he's whining that they reported him?

Is this about right?

Scotty


"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Wally" wrote in message
...
JG wrote:

All kidding aside, it sure is too bad that they can't figure out
that
this newsgroup is not that important to world peace or whatever.

Quite. It's a source of fun and banter - apres-race ****takes and
debate in
the yacht club bar is a good analogy.

big snip

Wally,

Some information you do not have that is skewing your thoughts is
Haight and Ganz have been netKKKoping me for over five years.
Both have a history of complaining to my ISPs and attempting to
get me tossed. Both brag about doing so.

I'm a patient man. I waited and bided my time hoping they would
get bored and go away. They didn't. So I waited till the time was
right. I used the fact that my news server, Individual.net was
going commercial April 1 and I was declining to pay for it. I
signed up on Databaxis and was welcomed. I doubt there
is a better service anywhere. They have their priorities straight.

My baiting Haight and Ganz and my goading them into revealing
their activities has nothing to do with the flame war between Katy
and LP. It only has the timing happenstance of Individaul net
going commercial. All conclusions you based on my relationship
with LP are erroneous. Believe me, that woman can and does
fight her own battles. She knows what a flame war is and
does not resort to netKKKoping no matter the length and
bitterness of the flame war. She is based in reality unlike
Haight and Ganz.

"They" did not cross post to get the flonkers involved. Show
me the post where I cross posted to do so, please. LP is a late
comer and has little to do with my dealings with Haight and
Ganz. They are netKKKops and what you see going on is the
result of their admitting to be netKKKops while netKKKop
haters were tuned in and there is no other reason for it.

It just so happened that when I joined Databasix, some
interested people were monitoring my posts. They look
out after their own interests and have been fighting for
freedom of speech for a long time. They expend a lot
of time and energy in a noble pursuit against censorship
and I, for one appreciate the haven they provide. They
do news right and that's a fact. Those monitoring my
posts were aware of the netcops and LP crossposting
was an after-the-fact situation.

You seem to be pretty bright but jumping to conclusions
can lead to false statements that tend to invalidate
what otherwise would be a decent summary.

CN

I never said I reported him. He's delusional or lying, but what you wrote is
about right.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Let me see if I have this straight.
Neal put great effort into goading Katy & Jon to report him.
Neal wanted then to report him.
And NOW he's whining that they reported him?

Is this about right?

Scotty


"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Wally" wrote in message
...
JG wrote:

All kidding aside, it sure is too bad that they can't figure out
that
this newsgroup is not that important to world peace or whatever.

Quite. It's a source of fun and banter - apres-race ****takes and
debate in
the yacht club bar is a good analogy.

big snip

Wally,

Some information you do not have that is skewing your thoughts is
Haight and Ganz have been netKKKoping me for over five years.
Both have a history of complaining to my ISPs and attempting to
get me tossed. Both brag about doing so.

I'm a patient man. I waited and bided my time hoping they would
get bored and go away. They didn't. So I waited till the time was
right. I used the fact that my news server, Individual.net was
going commercial April 1 and I was declining to pay for it. I
signed up on Databaxis and was welcomed. I doubt there
is a better service anywhere. They have their priorities straight.

My baiting Haight and Ganz and my goading them into revealing
their activities has nothing to do with the flame war between Katy
and LP. It only has the timing happenstance of Individaul net
going commercial. All conclusions you based on my relationship
with LP are erroneous. Believe me, that woman can and does
fight her own battles. She knows what a flame war is and
does not resort to netKKKoping no matter the length and
bitterness of the flame war. She is based in reality unlike
Haight and Ganz.

"They" did not cross post to get the flonkers involved. Show
me the post where I cross posted to do so, please. LP is a late
comer and has little to do with my dealings with Haight and
Ganz. They are netKKKops and what you see going on is the
result of their admitting to be netKKKops while netKKKop
haters were tuned in and there is no other reason for it.

It just so happened that when I joined Databasix, some
interested people were monitoring my posts. They look
out after their own interests and have been fighting for
freedom of speech for a long time. They expend a lot
of time and energy in a noble pursuit against censorship
and I, for one appreciate the haven they provide. They
do news right and that's a fact. Those monitoring my
posts were aware of the netcops and LP crossposting
was an after-the-fact situation.

You seem to be pretty bright but jumping to conclusions
can lead to false statements that tend to invalidate
what otherwise would be a decent summary.

CN

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:13:52 -0800, "JG" wrote:

I never said I reported him. He's delusional or lying, but what you wrote is
about right.

Did you or didn't your report him? What's the truth, Ganz?

--

Trollzilla's now deleted AOL profile:

AOL Profile: Ditamask
Member Name: Kristine
Location: California
Sex: Male
Marital Status: single 57 lesbian
Hobbies & Interests: Madonna, comic books, teenage girls and boys,
trolling newsgroups, watching tv, eating, playing with my new hormone
swollen mantits, my buttocks
Favorite Gadgets: prosthetic vagina and super vibrator. Better than a
fist!!
Personal Quote: "Just call me Kristine...the trolling lesbian with
polished buttocks"

Ummm, Moron - the postings Thom was referring to were those repetitive,
boring, content-free ones lacking it life, wit, humour or any trace of
originality whereby you just called Jon a HOMO for post after boring
post after boring post after boring post after ......
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Don't take it as an attempt to be your conscience. Take it as a
critique on style.

PDW

In article LQq3e.127442$ZO2.36548@edtnps84, Capt. Mooron
wrote:

Thom , since when do you predispose yourself to be my conscience in regards
to my posting on a public newsgroup? I have harboured you no ill will that I
can recall. Your insults are unwarranted

If I have a disagreement with anyone of the people here... what gives you
the right of deciding that I am wayward and you are on tangent?? I think
that attitude is a bit condescending and ill informed.

I believe Sir that you will find I have treated you with courtesy and
respect!!
If by some leave you cannot find it in yourself to return the courtesy...
then Sir ... I'm afraid that your tenure of age and self deluded grandeur
may be subject to scrutiny.

Take Heed...... I'm in no mood with the recent subject matter here to take
your insults in stride.... I want a retraction! Your personal views as to my
actions are without substance as they are without logic. I demand of you
either provide an explanation or an apology!

What you have provided so far is abject interference in a private dispute of
which you have no involvement nor consequence.... so I put it to you......
since you deemed it important to involve yourself... pick a side. join
in...... or apologise and get the **** out.

I'll leave it to you..... understand who has treated you with civility to
date. You'll find I don't mince my words...... but at least I'm hourable
and honest.

CM



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
CM,

Just think of your dumb ass post with Jon and the gay vein. I think even
you have to admit they were far,far from being adult.

I really don't think I need to say more.
They were beneath your mentality

Ole Thom