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See, it's working already. Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to laziness rather than any matter of principle. I don't much care about the time it takes to go anywhere, tons of fish & birds to watch anyway. PDW In article , Flying Tadpole wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: That's typical LP bull****, anyway. More like, would you turn in your neighbour for dumping a huge amount of **** in the road where everyone could see it, and plastering your name & address all over it? You turkeys started it by forging posts purporting to come from Katy. You got what you deserved. Soon you'll be in so many killfiles here that your virtual existence will be over. Katy will still be here. Who's LP? |
Peter Wiley wrote: See, it's working already. -ed, not -ing. Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground. The original Flying Tadpole II was able to do it by sailing on a broad reach and witching up, all the while praying that what little of the daggerboard was down wouldn't hit anything: but in her case the folding rudder was acting as the main lateral plane and leading to tendonitis in later years. Oars are useful. a small 2hp motor is smart for just that eventuality. How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul? -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- http://www.ace.net.au/schooner http://music.download.com/timfatchen http://music.download.com/internetopera |
"Peter Wiley" wrote: Top-posted to annoy the flonkers..... It doesn't annoy them, they laugh at the fool you are, idiot! LP |
In article , Flying Tadpole
wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: See, it's working already. -ed, not -ing. Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground. The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when it hits the bottom. The original Flying Tadpole II was able to do it by sailing on a broad reach and witching up, all the while praying that what little of the daggerboard was down wouldn't hit anything: but in her case the folding rudder was acting as the main lateral plane and leading to tendonitis in later years. Yeah, I can feel your pain.... Oars are useful. I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out. a small 2hp motor is smart for just that eventuality. It's on the list....... How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul? Nothing seems to be living on it. Gonna haul this afternoon. I've decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm. I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap. Sometimes I think I took up boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do, things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too. Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat. PDW |
Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Flying Tadpole wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: See, it's working already. -ed, not -ing. Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground. The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when it hits the bottom. No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some lateral plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have your c/b all the way up and there's only 1cm of water under your keel. Similarly, a kick-up rudder will too (not a spade rudder, the kickup has to rotate). Pity about where the centre of effort shifts in relation to the centre of resistance, but what the hey--even with the lee helm you've still got a chance of sailing out with leeboards. (all learnt from bitter experience with the original Flying Tadpole--although she had a 12ft large-bladed steering oar and could always be sculled out of trouble) I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out. Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows 7ft oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the little strokes they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over... How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul? Nothing seems to be living on it. Yeah... they're surreptitiously removing it from all the vineyards around here, and I'm not allowed to recommend CCA sleepers for resting oil flowlines on in the cattle country... Gonna haul this afternoon. I've decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm. I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap. Sometimes I think I took up boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do, things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too. You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less weatherly for such a craft. Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat. Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your sanity index. PDW -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- http://www.ace.net.au/schooner http://music.download.com/timfatchen http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpolemusic.htm |
The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant
going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when it hits the bottom. Flying Tadpole wrote: No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some lateral plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have your c/b all the way up and there's only 1cm of water under your keel. That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing. But they also have twice as much drag. Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of hydrodynamics is very picky. I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out. Rowing can be very therapeutic. Remember to take it easy at first, that's the difficult part. I tend to get all wound up and pull like hell then suffer later. Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows 7ft oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the little strokes they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over... ??? Never had that problem. Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the timing right this helps visibility. How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul? Nothing seems to be living on it. Now I'm curious. What is "CCA pine?" Gonna haul this afternoon. I've decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm. I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap. Keep in mind this is going to change the sheeting geometry. A foot is a lot! You sure you don't want to trial it at a bit less? How far back have you raked the mast? This will give you a good way to measure how far back to move the CE. .... Sometimes I think I took up boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do, things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too. Moderation in all things... don't be like Vito and focus solely on working on the boat! You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less weatherly for such a craft. Not necessarily less weatherly. The engineering would be a bit more intense, remember he's flying a bigger headsail. Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat. Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your sanity index. I guess all is relative ;) http://www.georgebuehler.com/pogo.html Looks like a fun boat, but it's a lot heavier than FT2. FResh Breezes- Doug King |
DSK wrote: The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when it hits the bottom. Flying Tadpole wrote: No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some lateral plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have your c/b all the way up and there's only 1cm of water under your keel. That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing. But they also have twice as much drag. Yes, but his problem was getting wrecked in the shoals. One accepts drag as payment if it helps you get out. BTW now is the time one is supposed to drag Dutch leeboarders out as the prize example, but it's actually fallacious; leeboards were used as much because they avoid slotting a hull, and so allow a potentially stronger hull, as for their shallow sailing abilities. An entire hull is an advantage if you keep boun\cing on sand at low tide! Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of hydrodynamics is very picky. On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the leeboards the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it was helpful... I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out. Rowing can be very therapeutic. Remember to take it easy at first, that's the difficult part. I tend to get all wound up and pull like hell then suffer later. Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows 7ft oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the little strokes they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over... ??? Never had that problem. Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the timing right this helps visibility. It would make my little pram go round'n'round like a coracle... How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul? Nothing seems to be living on it. Now I'm curious. What is "CCA pine?" Apple urgies. Copper Chrome Arsenate pressure-treated softwood. "PermaPine". Impervious to rot, lethal to borers, white ants, unfortunate propensity to poison you if used as barbeque fuel, but also prone to explode when overheated...when it disintegrates, leaves traces of (you guessed it) copper, chrome and arsenic. Safe to lean against, not to chew contemplatively. Sawdust nearly as poisonous as western red cedar. snip You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less weatherly for such a craft. Not necessarily less weatherly. The engineering would be a bit more intense, remember he's flying a bigger headsail. Well, that's a mistake in an unstayed craft. Use a bigger main. Or dispose of the jib entirely and replace it with the forward bit of a balanced lug! Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat. Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your sanity index. I guess all is relative ;) There is no relative with a schooner of any sort. It is all superlative. http://www.georgebuehler.com/pogo.html Looks like a fun boat, but it's a lot heavier than FT2. Yeah, but he doesn't need to be a hyperfit young adult to drive it, either. FT2 is going to come home from Port Augusta soon, get stripped back to wood-epoxy, critical things fixed, then sold as is. Harsh physical reality is I'm unlikely to sail her again and I need all maintenenace time at present to keep Lady Kate happy.-- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- http://www.ace.net.au/schooner http://music.download.com/timfatchen http://music.download.com/internetopera |
That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing.
But they also have twice as much drag. Flying Tadpole wrote: Yes, but his problem was getting wrecked in the shoals. One accepts drag as payment if it helps you get out. Actually, I was thinking of them dragging the bottom... ... BTW now is the time one is supposed to drag Dutch leeboarders out as the prize example, but it's actually fallacious; leeboards were used as much because they avoid slotting a hull, and so allow a potentially stronger hull, as for their shallow sailing abilities. An advantage that has been negated by modern technology. ... An entire hull is an advantage if you keep boun\cing on sand at low tide! Yes much better than a partial hull, I'm sure ;) Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of hydrodynamics is very picky. On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the leeboards the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it was helpful... Toe-in is "tunnel effect"? I thought you mean the pressure change due to flow between the hull & leeboard. BTW a centerboard can be set to angle itslef slightly to windward, just like toe-in with leeboards, bilgeboards, or catamaran foils. This used to be called a "gybing" board and it's a big help. ??? Never had that problem. Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the timing right this helps visibility. It would make my little pram go round'n'round like a coracle... Try shorter strokes. I guess all is relative ;) There is no relative with a schooner of any sort. It is all superlative. I meant relative sanity. FWIW I agree about schooners. I have only sailed a few but always admired them tremendously. Here it's commonly said that schooners are an American rig, even an American invention, but one sees native schooner types all over the world. I'm sad to hear you're planning on selling FT2, it has been a pleasure to sail her vicariously. BTW did I ever send you that picture of the FT2 sistership with the box cabin? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
snip Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of hydrodynamics is very picky. On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the leeboards the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it was helpful... Toe-in is "tunnel effect"? I thought you mean the pressure change due to flow between the hull & leeboard. No, the distance I had the leeboards out from the hull was one thing and their toe-in another (FT1 had leeboards mounted on an outrigger boom, not directly on the canoe's hull. And the hull was still widening at the point the boom crossed it, so water flow faced a constrciting passage, not parallel. A few cm in or out made a surprisign difference. Then I fiddled with the toe in .) BTW a centerboard can be set to angle itslef slightly to windward, just like toe-in with leeboards, bilgeboards, or catamaran foils. This used to be called a "gybing" board and it's a big help. snip FWIW I agree about schooners. I have only sailed a few but always admired them tremendously. Here it's commonly said that schooners are an American rig, even an American invention, but one sees native schooner types all over the world. I'm sad to hear you're planning on selling FT2, it has been a pleasure to sail her vicariously. BTW did I ever send you that picture of the FT2 sistership with the box cabin? Yes thanks. One day when I finally update the Light Schooner page I will put it up. -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- http://www.ace.net.au/schooner http://music.download.com/timfatchen http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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