"Scout" wrote ...
What it means is that people who can scrape together two
nickels to save will get 1.5% interest while credit card companies
rape
people for 20% (check out Citi-Bank's earnings and policies).

Rape? Anybody that uses a CC deserves what they get charged. it's not
like they hide the int. rates.

Scotty

"Scout" wrote ...
"
God bless a nation
where a guy like Scotty can make the offer of "take it or shove it."
He can
do so only because others have paid the cost, and continue to pay
the price,
for that privilege.


I can do that because my wife works, at a union job.

Scotty

I couldn't agree more! And, have never stated otherwise!
Contrary inferences are the sole responsibility of the inferrer.
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
ink.net...
1. No one owes you a job.

2. You get what you negotiate for.

Amen!

BC

"Scout" wrote in message
...
. . . that being comfortable with the few profiting from the hard work of
the many, while the many receive no profit, is to be comfortable with
slavery, which doesn't surprise me a bit.


"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

Being?

"Scout" wrote in message
...
that's just perversion of a more noble idea.
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote
Wrong! That is pure liberalism. You need to consider the fact that
everyone who works hard, works hard. That's it. That's all of it.
If he has something to show for his hard work or nothing to show for
it
that is his own choice and his own responsibility.

I believe it is indeed that you do not comprehend.... or make erroneous
assumptions regarding male aggression. In the average male... aggressiveness
is controlled. To submit that a competitive nature is not required in a
modern society is illogical. Even the few women in a position of power show
an extremely heightened sense of aggressiveness and a competitive nature.
Enlightenment has nothing to do with it.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
It's not that we don't comprehend..it's that we reject that as anything
other than what it is....uncontrolled testosterone...it worked for cavemen
because that's the physical reality they lived in but the idea of man
(gender, not species) as hunter/gatherer in an enlightened society is an
anachronism...


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:5huYd.20032$ZO2.7495@edtnps84...
NO! Kitty.... You are confusing aggressiveness and assertiveness....
which is understandable. I will repeat myself despite the fact I know you
are not capable of understanding the logic..... You cannot be assertive
without being aggressive.

Let's take the scenario you utilized.... you assume that aggression
requires physical intervention. It does not! Aggression between males has
a multi-tiered level.... none of which can be comprehended by females.
The level of aggressive behaviour is dependant on the situation. This is
comprehended by even the youngest of our gender.

CM



CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
An assertive person makes their point by showing you the hole in the
ground; an aggressive person puts you in the hole in the ground.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:gXrYd.19227$ZO2.4609@edtnps84...
You require aggressiveness to be assertive.... the very act of
asserting yourself, places others as either your equal or your
subordinate.... despite what they may have perceived. This situation is
not attained by passive compliance, nor neutral indifference.

CM


"katysails" wrote in message
...
I am assertive....not aggressive....

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:hTpYd.20694$i6.18071@edtnps90...
Aggression need not be physical....

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
I am not a physically aggressive person....except for the boots,
chains, spurs, etc....but that's not the same thing...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:xghYd.40369$fc4.33395@edtnps89...
You may indeed suggest it...... but I'd sooner you take your own
advise.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
Well, may I suggest you rise above your base animal instinct and
start using the tools that were given you to negotiate and walk
away from aggression?

I'm not going there since I already lost $20 on a bet that it couldn't be
done.
Yet there she was in the men's room... using the urinal.
My only salvation was that she was unable to manoeuvre the deodorant puck...

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Nah....you just happen to know the swuatters...

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:WiuYd.20034$ZO2.2028@edtnps84...
A man can turn his back to the world and relieve himself... a woman must
squat and bear herself to it.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
We live on top of a hill and the woods only covers one side...the
exposure level from the other side is...very open....unfortunately,
that's where the neighbors live...


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
news:2psYd.19538$ZO2.16990@edtnps84...
One of the joys of livin' in the country.

CM

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Why not? I do it all the time.

Scotty

"katysails" wrote in message
news Not good to pee in your own backyard, Lonny...

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
ink.net...
So, basically, unions are all good?
Not at all; I never said that. In fact, I've acknowledge the negative side
of unions. Fundamentally, they are political machines.

What is the cost of the teachers union to the future productivity of this
country?
I'm for a fair package. I took a $20,000/year cut in salary to come into the
classroom. You'd have a difficult time convincing me that vocational
teachers make what their counterparts in the field are making. It is true
that in some cases, teachers need to retire or be fired. That is the job of
administrators/supervisors.
I'm more surprised by the endless demands placed on teachers. Perhaps they
should be reduced if salaries and benes are reduced.
And; perhaps parents should be held accountable for the study habits and
extra-curricular activities of their children.
Most teachers I know are quite dedicated and very capable in their content
areas. They can provide superior instruction to those who are willing to
help themselves. Teachers are not equipped, however, to cure the societal
ills that walk into their classrooms everyday. It's a whole different
ballgame than the classrooms faced by college professors.

How many jobs in the last century were shipped overseas because of unions?
True, there is always someone worse off who is willing to work at or below
the poverty level.

How much environmental damage have unions caused in the steel and
automotive
industry clinging to old methods and factories?
I don't know. My affiliation with trade unions has involved the design and
maintenance of energy management (conservation) systems, as well as the
construction of nuclear facilities and trash to steam plants, among others.

How many companies will default on their pension promises because of
bloated
union demands? How many people will wind up getting nothing or very little
when they retire?
Perhaps not even social security when Mr. Bush is done reforming that
system. Time will tell but he won't be around to accept the responsibility.
As for union pensions, it is the responsibility of the members to guard
their pensions. I keep close track of what is happening with Steamfitters
and Construction Trades pensions.

How many union members have been ripped off or beaten up by their own
unions?
Some, but much less than have been helped.

What is the overall cost of unions impeding the fluidity of capital?
May I suggest you read "The Grapes of Wrath" again.

I appreciate the civil discourse.
Scout

Semantics. The message was clear: strength through unity.
Scout


"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
ink.net...
I thought they created a Confederation.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Scout" wrote in message
...
So our founding fathers, who believed in strength through unity, were
socialists?

Bwaahahhahahahhah. You are definitely a product of the liberal public
educational system. You learned a slanted view of what our founding
fathers were all about. Our founding fathers believed in strength
through
individualism and hard work.

Nope, Catholic school, then private college.
And, our founding fathers United the colonies, they made a UNION. Care to
guess why?
You lose, once again.
Scout

No they don't. What they do is offer the card at a lower rate and then let
it crawl like ivy up a wall.
And by the way, I'm all for making bankruptcy more difficult for fools in
debt. Why should we all pay for their lack of discipline. Wouldn't Neal be
surprised.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Scout" wrote ...
What it means is that people who can scrape together two
nickels to save will get 1.5% interest while credit card companies
rape
people for 20% (check out Citi-Bank's earnings and policies).

Rape? Anybody that uses a CC deserves what they get charged. it's not
like they hide the int. rates.

Scotty

"Scout" wrote in message

Very good. And because they had that day, hired goons no longer show up
and split your head open with a baseball bat for wanting a fair share of
the profits of a company's efforts. Had you seen that, you might be glad
to have a brother close by. These heavy handed "negotiations" made bar
room fights look like a day at the beach.

Not really a viable example Scout... since there are many things in society
that are no longer condoned and that had nothing to do with union activity.


It's all very well and good to espouse a philosophy that worked in the day
of the agrarian citizen, but the sheer number of people in the modern
workforce demands different rules. Hobbes would have agreed with me.
People are inherently greedy; generally speaking they are pricks. ASA
provides all the evidence one needs to believe that is true. Government
and big business are one and the same, and together they are still the
Leviathan. Mutually beneficial contracts are needed today more than ever.
God bless a nation where a guy like Scotty can make the offer of "take it
or shove it." He can do so only because others have paid the cost, and
continue to pay the price, for that privilege.

Our ancestors have collectively paid the price to have us achieve our
current freedoms and society... this in no way suggests that methods
acceptable even 50 years ago are legitimate today. Your statement on the
general tendencies of people seem to illustrate a rather negative view of
society in general. I do not find the people posting to ASA as pricks at
all.... [Except for Gaynzy who is an annoying little homo].... their
posturing and statements are a fine tool with which to hone my abilities to
defend a position. Considering the anonymity provided by this medium...
it's a wonder the verbal engagements are not far worse. In effect we self
police.

In regards to Scotty's ability to establish his rate of pay... this has been
available for as long as we have existed and is not the result of union
activity. If you provide a service or commodity that is superior to others
in the same field.... you have the right to charge what the consumer will
bear.

CM

In their day... unfortunately, given what we've seen in recent times, little
has changed. Corporate greed is only exceeded by politicians such as Bushco.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Scout wrote:
Nothing wrong with profit Joe. But everyone who works hard should
have
something to show for it.
Scout

Unions... the people who gave us the 8 hour days and the 5 day work
weeks.


Yes, unions were a good thing in their day.

SV