on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

it also sound as though he cleated it in a way that jambed it from releasing
a book of knots for xmas would do him well
gf


"tom" wrote in message
om...
I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

Thanks.

In article , gonefishiing wrote:
on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

How do you tighten the sheet in heavy air? Do you have it around a
winch before the cleat? Seems like you'd be getting a lot of
unnecessary chafe from around a cleat.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

yes it around the winch
cafe?
oh that's the coffee place

chafe?
what chafe?
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

its friday: i'm out of here with my daughter to find some place in the west
village for some dolce
ciao....adomani
gf.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , gonefishiing
wrote:
on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based
on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

How do you tighten the sheet in heavy air? Do you have it around a
winch before the cleat? Seems like you'd be getting a lot of
unnecessary chafe from around a cleat.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article , gonefishiing wrote:
yes it around the winch
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

Well, seems to me that if there's any significan easing of the sheet,
there would be significant friction on the line... on a relatively
rough surface also. I try not to treat my lines to that. You must sail
in pretty light wind conditions most of the time.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Best thing for a jib sheet is a jam cleat. Holds tight but is easy to release
in an emergency.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , gonefishiing
wrote:
yes it around the winch
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

Well, seems to me that if there's any significan easing of the sheet,
there would be significant friction on the line... on a relatively
rough surface also. I try not to treat my lines to that. You must sail
in pretty light wind conditions most of the time.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Unless the original poster misspoke, he called it a "cam cleat", shouldn't
have any friction easing as the sheet has to be popped out of the cleat
before it can run. It will only pull through the cleat in one direction.
What I don't understand is why it was so difficult to release the jibsheet
from the cleat, they are designed so that upward pressure on the sheet(and
not a lot) should pop the sheet out of the cleat.
Based on what was originally posted I could only suggest taking a look at
how the sheets and cleats are routed, then make any necessary changes.
John Cairns

no
no
no

a cleat is a smooth surface
just look at one
it is delibrately smooth

i sail in light and heavy wind
i don't motor off, or on to my mooring
or the dock for that matter.

now desert is calling as is the train schedule as katie just announced
rather "proudly"
in other words *DAD*

yep you too
have a good weekend.
hell its been a long enough week
the gibons plugged in
the acoustic is tuned
a good ole southern he ha is in order
bye bye

gf.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , gonefishiing
wrote:
yes it around the winch
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

Well, seems to me that if there's any significan easing of the sheet,
there would be significant friction on the line... on a relatively
rough surface also. I try not to treat my lines to that. You must sail
in pretty light wind conditions most of the time.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Tom,

There are a lot of things I'm not sure of in your question? Are you
using self tailing winches? Is your main and traveler center boom or
end?

It sounds like he released the main from the Cabin top. If that was the
case, then you probably should have been easing INTO the wind enough to
keep the hull under you but still be making headway while he adjusted
the jib sheet.

The helm should start getting heavy (weather helm) as you heel. When
this happens it is time to start adjusting sail trim. You want some
weather helm (About 15 degrees)

The easiest and fastest way to release air is with the helm, into the
wind and then sail adjustments.

Ole Thom

Thom Stewart wrote:
Tom,

There are a lot of things I'm not sure of in your question? Are you
using self tailing winches? Is your main and traveler center boom or
end?

It sounds like he released the main from the Cabin top. If that was the
case, then you probably should have been easing INTO the wind enough to
keep the hull under you but still be making headway while he adjusted
the jib sheet.

The helm should start getting heavy (weather helm) as you heel. When
this happens it is time to start adjusting sail trim. You want some
weather helm (About 15 degrees)

The easiest and fastest way to release air is with the helm, into the
wind and then sail adjustments.

Agreed, and Oz1 suggested this too but it is also something that
requires good judgement & skill by the helmsman, and furthermore it may
not be an option due to traffic, depth, etc etc.

For example, it's not uncommon in a heavy gust... or a gust accomanied
by a big lift... to be momentarily overpowered and have the boat slow
and the rudder flirt with stalling... if you're trying to feather into
it at this point, you may spin out or even do a zippy auto-tack... bad news!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Point up!

Seahag

"tom" wrote in message
om...
I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

Thanks.