"John Cairns" wrote

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns


Capt. Mooron wrote:
Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

Yeah, John, what are you tryin' to do... start an arument?!?


I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such speeds?

Well, you did say you're not much of a "numbers" kind of guy.

I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!
Actually it's very nice boat, hardly a lightweight around-the-bouys
racer, with probably more cabin space than your boat.

Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
it. OTOH it's a lot roomier and probably noticably more comfortable in a
chop.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!


Why does Doug lie? I rarely heard anything negative online about the Express 30
and I doubt he has either.

RB

Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
it.


Shockingly wrong info from Doug. The CR 38 will make a long ocean passage
faster. It has the WL and momentum to maintain higher speeds and do so in worse
weather.

RB

Bobsprit wrote:
Shockingly wrong info from Doug. The CR 38 will make a long ocean passage
faster. It has the WL and momentum to maintain higher speeds and do so in worse
weather.

You know this from personal experience, right? You've made a lot of
"long ocean passages" on Long Island Sound within 10 miles of your slip,
right?

DSK

Shockingly wrong info from Doug. The CR 38 will make a long ocean passage
faster. It has the WL and momentum to maintain higher speeds and do so in
worse
weather.

You know this from personal experience, right? You've made a lot of
"long ocean passages" on Long Island Sound within 10 miles of your slip,
right?


Sorry, Doug, but you're wrong. It's just than simple and if I never sailed a
day in my life you'd STILL be wrong.
In addition to the data already mentioned, the Express 30 does best on her
feet, while the CR38 will hold speed in a variety of poor conditions. She's a
sea boat by design and excells over long distance. Until Mooron gave you the
numbers you assumed she was just another super-heavy cruiser.

RB

"DSK" wrote in message
| Well, you did say you're not much of a "numbers" kind of guy.

The numbers are generally in my favour Doug... why concern myself with them.

| I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
| thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
| oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!
| Actually it's very nice boat, hardly a lightweight around-the-bouys
| racer, with probably more cabin space than your boat.

No Doug... you're completely off the mark. I could care less about the
Express because it's a fin keeler... and I don't really like fin keelers
between 20 to 35 feet.... compound that with the fact I think Loco is a
complete Idiot... you expect what.... I'm going to compliment his boat???!!!
There is no way in hell he has more cabin space Doug... just look at the
designs and see how far, fore & Aft, my vessel carries her beam. Better yet
look at the SailCalc numbers and pay close attention to the Pounds/Inch
Ratio. Overproof is by far and away ten times the vessel of that low end
buoy nag!


|
| Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
| 30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
| it. OTOH it's a lot roomier and probably noticably more comfortable in a
| chop.

Well Doug... like you always say.. you can't argue with the numbers and the
numbers show the Cabo to be quicker. What do you want me to say.... ??

CM

Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another adjective,
though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat isn't very
fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in any
event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.
John Cairns
"DSK" wrote in message
.. .


"John Cairns" wrote

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar
length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11
knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns


Capt. Mooron wrote:
Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot
vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

Yeah, John, what are you tryin' to do... start an arument?!?


I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such
speeds?

Well, you did say you're not much of a "numbers" kind of guy.

I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!
Actually it's very nice boat, hardly a lightweight around-the-bouys
racer, with probably more cabin space than your boat.

Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
it. OTOH it's a lot roomier and probably noticably more comfortable in a
chop.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .
| Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another adjective,
| though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat isn't
very
| fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in any
| event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.

I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

CM

No, I didn't supply the hard data, you did. Surely you haven't forgotten
your calculator? You reminded me that you supplied the link.
Your calculator doesn't claim a CR 38 can do 11 kts. As far as being attuned
to the numbers goes, all that it means is that I've been in the habit of
looking at phrf #'s for some time now, and am generally aware of how fast
different boats can go.You aren't claiming a CR 38 can plane, are you? Maybe
you have a different definition of "fast". In any event, I spent a fair
amount of time crossing the Atlantic, sailing from Bermuda, and to the
Bahamas on a boat that is correctly labeled as a "fast" offshore cruiser,
phrf rating of 54, and even we couldn't average 11kts. in 15 knots of wind
on a beam reach in pretty flat seas. Now explain to me how a CR 38 with a
rating of 177 can do 11 kts. TO WEATHER? You know, I don't have any
practical experience driving a Yugo, but I can tell you with a fair amount
of certainty that it will not go 150 mph. Fast offshore cruisers are capable
of closing in on 200 mile days, I'd be surprised if the CR 38 can do much
north of 150, which, by most accounts, is "average."

John Cairns

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .
| Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another adjective,
| though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat isn't
very
| fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in any
| event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.

I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

CM

John.. the boat did 11 knots crossing Yellowbank.. thats a fact.

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message
m...
| No, I didn't supply the hard data, you did. Surely you haven't forgotten
| your calculator? You reminded me that you supplied the link.
| Your calculator doesn't claim a CR 38 can do 11 kts. As far as being
attuned
| to the numbers goes, all that it means is that I've been in the habit of
| looking at phrf #'s for some time now, and am generally aware of how fast
| different boats can go.You aren't claiming a CR 38 can plane, are you?
Maybe
| you have a different definition of "fast". In any event, I spent a fair
| amount of time crossing the Atlantic, sailing from Bermuda, and to the
| Bahamas on a boat that is correctly labeled as a "fast" offshore cruiser,
| phrf rating of 54, and even we couldn't average 11kts. in 15 knots of wind
| on a beam reach in pretty flat seas. Now explain to me how a CR 38 with a
| rating of 177 can do 11 kts. TO WEATHER? You know, I don't have any
| practical experience driving a Yugo, but I can tell you with a fair amount
| of certainty that it will not go 150 mph. Fast offshore cruisers are
capable
| of closing in on 200 mile days, I'd be surprised if the CR 38 can do much
| north of 150, which, by most accounts, is "average."
|
| John Cairns
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "John Cairns" wrote in message
| .. .
| | Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another
adjective,
| | though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat
isn't
| very
| | fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in
any
| | event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.
|
| I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
| numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
| crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
| conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
| question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.
|
| To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.
|
| I'll stand by what I said.
|
| CM
|
|
|
|
|
|