Ad hominen attacks are no substitute for cogent arguments, but you have to
work with what you have, I suppose.
John Cairns
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???

DUH!!!... Bahamas!!! Of course there was!

Now you are sounding like John Cairns.... the Lake Racer and Global
Traveler
who has only managed to claim 2 items from his many adventures, a photo
album and an erection whenever he hears the words "Heh Sailor...Jiggy
Jiggy
Five dollars?"

CM

Don't get your hackles in a knot John.... I have to bide my time till the
documentation arrives... until then buddy.. it's just good natured ribbing.

Unless of course you lost your sense of humour along with your baggage... if
so then you'd better get a sedative prescription... because it ain't gonna
get all warm and fuzzy all of a sudden.

Cripes these whiners... feel free to call me a liar then cry a river
accusing me with a quivering finger and sobbin' that I'm doin' de "Ad
Homium"!!

Here fer Gawd's sake... have a tissue!

CM





"John Cairns" wrote in message
om...
| Ad hominen attacks are no substitute for cogent arguments, but you have to
| work with what you have, I suppose.
| John Cairns
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "Bobsprit" wrote in message
|
| | WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???
|
| DUH!!!... Bahamas!!! Of course there was!
|
| Now you are sounding like John Cairns.... the Lake Racer and Global
| Traveler
| who has only managed to claim 2 items from his many adventures, a photo
| album and an erection whenever he hears the words "Heh Sailor...Jiggy
| Jiggy
| Five dollars?"
|
| CM
|
|
|
|

Sail Area Cabo Rico 38 969
Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

I'd like to see the spec sheet to see if Cabo Rico uses something over a 100%
jib to get these numbers like most cruising manufactures do.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Well you should remember that the Boobster told us he did 13kts in 8kts of wind
with his 70s era tub.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Don't remember that one, but I was surprised by Mooron's statement, so
surprised that I let it pass for a while. When I first saw the statement
"11kts in 6 ft of water" my initial reaction is that he was loaded and got
the numbers backwards. Then he insisted it was correct, and offered to post
proof in the form of log entries that he was going to post to his webshots
album. In any event, got some info from folks on the Cabo Rico list, at
least one of whom indicated that the CR38 is slower than I imagined, even
got an offer to take a tour of a boat in Port Clinton, Ohio, hope to do that
before the season ends.

"If you are going to windward, a 150 mile day is going to be hard to do. On
a
reach or downwind with the right sails it is easy to do. The CR38 has a 29
ft
waterline so it does about 7kts if the wind and sails are right, and
because
it has a full keel (lots of wetted surface) the bottom needs to be kept
clean"

Quote from an owner, which were my thoughts about hull speed, too much
wetted surface, too short a LWL. Still a great blue water boat, just not a
fast one.

John Cairns

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Well you should remember that the Boobster told us he did 13kts in 8kts of
wind
with his 70s era tub.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

The true sail area (with 100% foretriangle) for the CR38 is 763, not 969. The
SA/Disp is actually 15.79, not 20. And the Hull Speed is 7.33, making a
sustained 11 knot through the water rather unlikely. And I noticed someone
attributed it to Ellis (who designed the NE38, renamed NE400, as well as the
Nonsuch's) but it actually came from the board of Bill Crealock.



"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...

Sail Area Cabo Rico 38 969
Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

I'd like to see the spec sheet to see if Cabo Rico uses something over a 100%
jib to get these numbers like most cruising manufactures do.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

John you can be as surprised as you like.... I'm certain of the figures but
won't have the documentation to offer until well into the middle of next
month.

Insofar as the owner's response..... there is a Nordica 30 owner right
here with a sister ship to mine that claims he has never gotten beyond 6
knots of speed from the vessel. I understood that statement when I first
sailed along side him in my boat. His vessel will not do over 6 knots... but
it has nothing to do with the vessel's abilities and all to do with it's
set-up and handling.

Now you'll tell me that a speed of over 9 knots sustained is impossible on
Overproof I suppose!

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message
om...
| Don't remember that one, but I was surprised by Mooron's statement, so
| surprised that I let it pass for a while. When I first saw the statement
| "11kts in 6 ft of water" my initial reaction is that he was loaded and got
| the numbers backwards. Then he insisted it was correct, and offered to
post
| proof in the form of log entries that he was going to post to his webshots
| album. In any event, got some info from folks on the Cabo Rico list, at
| least one of whom indicated that the CR38 is slower than I imagined, even
| got an offer to take a tour of a boat in Port Clinton, Ohio, hope to do
that
| before the season ends.
|
| "If you are going to windward, a 150 mile day is going to be hard to do.
On
| a
| reach or downwind with the right sails it is easy to do. The CR38 has a 29
| ft
| waterline so it does about 7kts if the wind and sails are right, and
| because
| it has a full keel (lots of wetted surface) the bottom needs to be kept
| clean"
|
| Quote from an owner, which were my thoughts about hull speed, too much
| wetted surface, too short a LWL. Still a great blue water boat, just not a
| fast one.
|
| John Cairns
|
| "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
| ...
| Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
|
| Well you should remember that the Boobster told us he did 13kts in 8kts
of
| wind
| with his 70s era tub.
| S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
| "Trains are a winter sport"
|
|

You are aware it's a cutter?

Hull speed is a general indication of expected speeds... not an upper limit
of vessel ability.

Overproof has exceeded her calculated hull speed on many occasions... for
extended periods.

CM


Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
| The true sail area (with 100% foretriangle) for the CR38 is 763, not 969.
The
| SA/Disp is actually 15.79, not 20. And the Hull Speed is 7.33, making a
| sustained 11 knot through the water rather unlikely. And I noticed
someone
| attributed it to Ellis (who designed the NE38, renamed NE400, as well as
the
| Nonsuch's) but it actually came from the board of Bill Crealock.
|
|
|
| "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Sail Area Cabo Rico 38 969
| Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05
|
| I'd like to see the spec sheet to see if Cabo Rico uses something over a
100%
| jib to get these numbers like most cruising manufactures do.
| S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
| "Trains are a winter sport"
|
|

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
John you can be as surprised as you like.... I'm certain of the figures
but
won't have the documentation to offer until well into the middle of next
month.

Insofar as the owner's response..... there is a Nordica 30 owner right
here with a sister ship to mine that claims he has never gotten beyond 6
knots of speed from the vessel. I understood that statement when I first
sailed along side him in my boat. His vessel will not do over 6 knots...
but
it has nothing to do with the vessel's abilities and all to do with it's
set-up and handling.

Now you'll tell me that a speed of over 9 knots sustained is impossible on
Overproof I suppose!


You are getting as bad as Bob.

A sustained speed of 9kts (through the water) is impossible in Overproof.


In fact, I've never managed much more than 8kts over two hours. Setanta is
designed to surf!!



Regards


Donal
--

Doug, they were really doing 1.1 kt, Mooron was drunk (what's new)
and couldn't see the decimal point with his fuzzy eyes.

Scotty

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Capt. Mooron wrote:
I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you
to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast
offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed.

Of course... you *have* to say that!

... Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left
to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

Well, it hinges a on a couple of things... what do you mean by
"fast"
and what do you mean by "offshore cruiser"? For example, the Saga 43
and
her sisters are often touted as "fast offshore cruisers." Nobody in
their right mind would doubt that a Saga 43 would sail rings around
a CR
38 in most conditions, but it's a bigger boat & a newer design...
plus
it's got a (gasp) fin keel.

I took the liberty of firing up my huge database of boat specs, and
did
some sorting. From a list of a couple hundred boats that were close
to
the Cabo Rico 38 in displacement & LOD (a more honest measure of
size
than LOA) I sorted through to get 50 that most would agree are fit
for
offshore sailing, then sorted them by calculated speed (Vmax not
hull
speed). Few of these boats have PHRF ratings BTW.

The Cabo Rico 38 came out 34th on the list, well under halfway down.
Conclusion- below average in speed potential.

Some faster boats from the list:
Bayfield 40, Island Packet 37, Corbin 39, Pacific Seacraft 40,
Morgan
41, Robinhood 40 (the old Little Harbor 38), Shannon 37, Wright 40,
Swan
38....

Slower boats: Hallberg-Rassy 36, Tartan 37 (?!?), Allied Mistress,
Alden
38, Nor'Sea 37, Baba 35, Nauticat 38... the amazing thing is that
some
boats were calculated as slower than the Nauticat, which is a very
heavy
high-sided motorsailer.

Sorry, Mooron... I'm not trying to pass judgement on a boat I have
no
experience with, but it's hard to justify calling it fast unless
there
is something more to the story here... maybe the one you were
sailing
was a secret experimental version?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King