Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Goodness me, Mr Cairns, a mere Atlantic crossing and you're
tearing strips off Bobsprit? Even without considering Bobsprit's
other manifold gifts, I'd have thought you'd surely see your
sailing as a minor byplay compared with his. You've clearly no
sense of proportion.

John Cairns wrote:

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Based on a quick psych evaluation of Scotty's posts
vs. yours, one would also get the impression that Scotty enjoys his boat
more than you enjoy yours. What's up with that?
John Cairns


Uhhh, gee, John....why don't you explain the criteria for your
"evaluation"
based on e-mails!?

RB

C'mon Bob, try a little harder. How long have you been POSTING here. You
constantly belittle Scotty's choice of boat. Think about it. You've heard
the term, kicking a dead dog, right? If you think Scotty owns such a crappy
boat, why keep bringing it up? You think Doug King is an inferior sailor
because he owns a trawler. You almost constantly imply that you're somehow a
better sailor than most here because you claim that you sail more frequently
than other folks here. I've said it before, I'll say it again.You brag about
how much you sail in the same fashion that a 2 yr.old boy proudly talks
about how he used the potty. Something you EXPECT a 2 yr. old to do,
something that's disturbing in a fully formed adult personality. Did it ever
occur to you that a fair percentage of the folks here DON'T post about EVERY
time they take their boats out? It's almost as if you're trying to convince
us that you enjoy sailing or that sailing is enjoyable, don't really know
about you, but I think most of us enjoy sailing, we don't need the approval
of others for that. One other thing. Most sailing industry insiders
(including brokers) will candidly admit that yacht brokers, for the most
part, are the equivalent of used car salesman, and I think that most of the
folks that post here regularly (and have had to deal with brokers) know this
also. Trying to be a broker isn't going to impress anyone here. And lastly.
Owning a very nice boat might carry some weight with absolute beginners, you
know, someone that only recently took up sailing, had done a lot of reading,
knows about all of the top names. The rest of us know that owning a nice
boat or an expensive boat has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of
the owner, period. It's sort of like the downhill skiing thing, the cost of
the skiers outfit tends to be inversely proportional to their ability.
John Cairns

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious
past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Hell, Taddy, I've posted the same thing about BS in the past, almost the
same words. And it was actually a minor byplay in itself (though not
compared to anything BS has done), if you consider several things. At least
one of the fellas, Pat, had never been offshore before. Helluva first
passage, don't you think? Jim, one of the others, is 68. Guess you're never
too old. It was the skippers 21st crossing, by way of comparison. It was
May, early June, the weather is generally decent. I do try to treat him
decently, he has provided the group with a great deal of entertainment, but
generally of a very lowbrow type (again something I've said in the past)
John Cairns

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Goodness me, Mr Cairns, a mere Atlantic crossing and you're
tearing strips off Bobsprit? Even without considering Bobsprit's
other manifold gifts, I'd have thought you'd surely see your
sailing as a minor byplay compared with his. You've clearly no
sense of proportion.

John Cairns wrote:

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Based on a quick psych evaluation of Scotty's posts
vs. yours, one would also get the impression that Scotty enjoys his
boat
more than you enjoy yours. What's up with that?
John Cairns


Uhhh, gee, John....why don't you explain the criteria for your
"evaluation"
based on e-mails!?

RB

C'mon Bob, try a little harder. How long have you been POSTING here. You
constantly belittle Scotty's choice of boat. Think about it. You've
heard
the term, kicking a dead dog, right? If you think Scotty owns such a
crappy
boat, why keep bringing it up? You think Doug King is an inferior sailor
because he owns a trawler. You almost constantly imply that you're
somehow a
better sailor than most here because you claim that you sail more
frequently
than other folks here. I've said it before, I'll say it again.You brag
about
how much you sail in the same fashion that a 2 yr.old boy proudly talks
about how he used the potty. Something you EXPECT a 2 yr. old to do,
something that's disturbing in a fully formed adult personality. Did it
ever
occur to you that a fair percentage of the folks here DON'T post about
EVERY
time they take their boats out? It's almost as if you're trying to
convince
us that you enjoy sailing or that sailing is enjoyable, don't really
know
about you, but I think most of us enjoy sailing, we don't need the
approval
of others for that. One other thing. Most sailing industry insiders
(including brokers) will candidly admit that yacht brokers, for the most
part, are the equivalent of used car salesman, and I think that most of
the
folks that post here regularly (and have had to deal with brokers) know
this
also. Trying to be a broker isn't going to impress anyone here. And
lastly.
Owning a very nice boat might carry some weight with absolute beginners,
you
know, someone that only recently took up sailing, had done a lot of
reading,
knows about all of the top names. The rest of us know that owning a nice
boat or an expensive boat has absolutely nothing to do with the ability
of
the owner, period. It's sort of like the downhill skiing thing, the cost
of
the skiers outfit tends to be inversely proportional to their ability.
John Cairns

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious
past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

No. He's just a lot dumber than the rest of us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:29:31 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Jim Cate wrote:

Interesting. - Doug said that the wind speed might have been as much as
10-12 knots. Why do you criticize my estimate of the wind speed but not
his, when he wasn't even there?

Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

Huh?

Are they different on your sea?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Yeah, I'm an incredibly slow typist, but I am starting to get slightly
faster. Never claimed I was "above it all" but the folks you mention have
generally treated me pretty decently, so why would I trade insults with
them? I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt (excepting anonymous
posters) but I will agree about one thing, though you didn't mention it. If
it weren't for your posts, it would be a very dull group.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
The rest of us know that owning a nice
boat or an expensive boat has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of
the owner, period.


Wow, John. You spent a lot of time on that post and I sympathize. BUT, you
don't have to read my posts. Clearly, Doug, Scotty and Loco and others
enjoy
the obviously petty nonsense that goes on here, but "you" are above it
all.
Simply don't play, John. It's that simple.

RB

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Jim Cate wrote:
Sounds like you are a hot **** salty-dog sailor, Doug.

Whatever

DSK

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.


Horvath wrote:
Huh?

Are they different on your sea?

Fetch will make a slight difference and so will salt vs fresh, but not
much. Let me guess... you've never noticed when whitecaps form.

Check the Beaufort Scale. New technology, cutting edge stuff.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

DSK wrote
Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

http://www.stormfax.com/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10 Gentle breeze, Large wavelets; crests begin to
break; scattered whitecaps"

http://www.r-p-r.co.uk/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10"
"Gentle Breeze Large wavelets. Perhaps scattered white horses"

You might want to ask Navvie just to make sure.

DSK

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

This certainly applies in open water, but in very protected water, such as
Boston's Charles River Basin, you won't see whitecaps until its over 15 knots.
Of course, we were able to sail dinghies in 30 knots or more there.



"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
DSK wrote
Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

http://www.stormfax.com/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10 Gentle breeze, Large wavelets; crests begin to
break; scattered whitecaps"

http://www.r-p-r.co.uk/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10"
"Gentle Breeze Large wavelets. Perhaps scattered white horses"

You might want to ask Navvie just to make sure.

DSK

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Never claimed I was "above it all" but the folks you mention have
generally treated me pretty decently, so why would I trade insults with
them?

Trading insults is part of what I like to do here. Some folks like Scotty and
Loco take it to heart and that's too bad. But most of the others seem to have
fun and that's what it's all about. If you seriously get wound up by what goes
on in this group, you have bigger issues!

RB

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

but I will agree about one thing, though you didn't mention it. If
it weren't for your posts, it would be a very dull group.


Ahhh, Thank you. Won't earn you any point with other driftwood here though.

RB

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Jeff Morris wrote:
This certainly applies in open water, but in very protected water, such as
Boston's Charles River Basin, you won't see whitecaps until its over 15 knots.
Of course, we were able to sail dinghies in 30 knots or more there.

That's what, about 1/2 mile wide and between tall buildings? I think
that you get little popcorn whitecaps at 12 knots steady breeze even then.

I've noticed that on water with more than a mile fetch, some whitecaps
show up at 8 knots (if it's fairly consistent) because that's when the
Johnson 18 will start planing. Takes a tight spinnaker reach, but it'll
do it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

John Cairns wrote:

snip he has provided the group with a great deal of
entertainment, but
generally of a very lowbrow type

True. So explain to me, why can't I persuade him, and his GHost
Girls, to sing? I mean, I'm promoting lowbrow in all directions
and I can't sing either.... And there's this hungry non-newsgroup
public all agog for the next instalment...
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious
past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Bobsprit wrote:

but I will agree about one thing, though you didn't mention it. If
it weren't for your posts, it would be a very dull group.

Ahhh, Thank you. Won't earn you any point with other driftwood here though.

RB

A gratuitous insult and there isn't even a gratuity.
--
Otis B. Tadpole

-------------------------
Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious
past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Does that answer your question Katy?


Yeah...it says a lot about you.....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Doug asked:
Horvath wrote:
Huh?

Are they different on your sea?

He sails the Sea of Erie...the whitecaps are mud grey there.....he just
didn't notice them....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Jim Cate a NO SHOW
 

Ahhh, Thank you. Won't earn you any point with other driftwood here though.

RB

A gratuitous insult and there isn't even a gratuity.


Clever girl.


RB

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:43:17 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.


Horvath wrote:
Huh?

Are they different on your sea?

Fetch will make a slight difference and so will salt vs fresh, but not
much. Let me guess... you've never noticed when whitecaps form.


12 to 15






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:47:15 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

DSK wrote
Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

http://www.stormfax.com/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10 Gentle breeze, Large wavelets; crests begin to
break; scattered whitecaps"

That's "scattered" whitecaps, dumbass.

http://www.r-p-r.co.uk/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10"
"Gentle Breeze Large wavelets. Perhaps scattered white horses"

Numerous whitecaps are at 11 - 16.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

On 14 Jun 2004 16:45:31 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

yes , I do. Immensly. So does Lisa.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/447701.JPG


Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Scotty


"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jun 2004 16:45:31 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

yes , I do. Immensly. So does Lisa.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/447701.JPG


Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

"Horvath" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:43:17 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.


Horvath wrote:
Huh?

Are they different on your sea?

Fetch will make a slight difference and so will salt vs fresh, but not
much. Let me guess... you've never noticed when whitecaps form.


12 to 15

That's been my observation. Never seen 'em at 8kts.

Max

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Yep. Same here in the SF bay... usually 15-17kts when they start to form.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
This certainly applies in open water, but in very protected water, such as
Boston's Charles River Basin, you won't see whitecaps until its over 15
knots.
Of course, we were able to sail dinghies in 30 knots or more there.



"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
DSK wrote
Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

http://www.stormfax.com/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10 Gentle breeze, Large wavelets; crests begin to
break; scattered whitecaps"

http://www.r-p-r.co.uk/beaufort.htm
"F3 knots: 7 - 10"
"Gentle Breeze Large wavelets. Perhaps scattered white horses"

You might want to ask Navvie just to make sure.

DSK

Sail pic
 

Tis better to wish you weren't reefed than wish you were...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Scotty


"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jun 2004 16:45:31 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

yes , I do. Immensly. So does Lisa.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/447701.JPG


Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

Scotty wrote...

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some for that instant, then started again a few seconds later.

Oh, sure.

RB

Sail pic
 

On 15 Jun 2004 04:22:27 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Bad answer. I would have taken out the reef long ago.



Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:23:53 GMT

Because whitecaps usually begin forming around 8 knots and are regular
at 10.

Fetch will make a slight difference and so will salt vs fresh, but not
much. Let me guess... you've never noticed when whitecaps form.


12 to 15

That's been my observation. Never seen 'em at 8kts.

You need a magnifying glass. At 8 kts, they're smaller than his IQ.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:35:53 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Yep. Same here in the SF bay... usually 15-17kts when they start to form.

So it's still the same for gay guys?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jun 2004 04:22:27 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Bad answer.

Why?
Are you taking away my points?

I would have taken out the reef long ago.


Why? We were CRUISING, not racing. Also we were running w/the wind all
morning so the main wasn't 'doing much'.


Nice boat,


You have good taste sir.



--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__

Sail pic
 

Very true. As I stated once before, and got ridiculed from the ****head, I
usually start out reefed when Lisa's aboard.

Scotty


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Tis better to wish you weren't reefed than wish you were...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed
down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Scotty


"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jun 2004 16:45:31 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

yes , I do. Immensly. So does Lisa.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/447701.JPG


Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

That's not true, boob. I don't need to lie about my pics like you do.

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Scotty wrote...

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed
down
some for that instant, then started again a few seconds later.

Oh, sure.

RB

Sail pic
 

I would have taken out the reef long ago.


Why? We were MOTORING, not sailing


Yup.

RB

Sail pic
 

Very true. As I stated once before, and got ridiculed


Some complex scotty potty has!



RB

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

katysails wrote:

Does that answer your question Katy?


Yeah...it says a lot about you.....

The boat has two knot meters (one providing speed over the bottom and
another showing speed through the water; I have a hand-held anemometer;
it has a GPS chartreader, several sources of weather reports, etc. With
these instruments plus observations of the effects of the wind on the
boat and the water, and since I don't intend to make long blue water
voyages, I don't see the great urgency of having a permanent anemometer
on board. Even if I get into racing, I think the two knotmeters are
more important for providing an immediate indication of how the boat is
doing under the particular conditions, and how it is responding to
adjustments in the sails, rigging, etc. In other words, if changes in
the sails under the particular wind conditions result in better speed,
pointing, etc., then the boat is doing what I want it to do.

Katy, I'm not sure you have a proper appreciation for the great
traditions and history of sailing through the years. - With respect to
the suggestion that the Macs aren't real sailing vessels because most of
the dealers don't advertise the availability of anemometers for them,
did Columbus, or Magellan, or the captain of the Mayflower, etc., have
anemometers onboard their vessels? Did the clipper ships, or even more
modern, transitional sailing vessels? For example, The Elissa, launched
in 1873, on which I crewed several years, was in service for so many
years that it is thought to have more miles at sea than any other
sailing vessel, all without the benefits of an anemometer. I also don't
recall the Vikings having anemometers aboard their boats, or the Greeks
or Romans, etc., - In other words, are you saying that these people
were not true SAILORS, or that their ships weren't true SAILBOATS
because they didn't have anemometers? For thousands of years sailors
have been carrying on the great traditions and adventures of sailing
relying on their own observations of wind and sea conditions. They
navigated and sailed around the world under the most extreme conditions
relying on their observations of current conditions interpreted in light
of their experience at sea, their training, and their knowledge of the
characteristics of their respective vessels. - I hope to do the same
with my new Mac 26M, with or without a permanently mounted anemometer.

Jim

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

"Jim Cate" wrote


several sources of weather reports,

name them.

SV

Sail pic
 

Tut tut, Loco don't you know that New York City is the center of the
universe? g

Really, it never ceases to amaze me how New Yorkers are so like Iowans in
assuming entire country is like their own back yard,


Actually, Dave, you have it backwards. I never assumed that docking is the same
anywhere. But Loco and Scotty and Doug simply insisted that using thimbles and
shackles (as done here) is NEVER practiced.
Now that I've proven them wrong again, they are simply attempting to redirect
the argument.
They lost.

RB

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

You are an idiot. Why don't you get two wheels and some electric winches.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Does that answer your question Katy?


Yeah...it says a lot about you.....

The boat has two knot meters (one providing speed over the bottom and
another showing speed through the water; I have a hand-held anemometer;
it has a GPS chartreader, several sources of weather reports, etc. With
these instruments plus observations of the effects of the wind on the
boat and the water, and since I don't intend to make long blue water
voyages, I don't see the great urgency of having a permanent anemometer
on board. Even if I get into racing, I think the two knotmeters are
more important for providing an immediate indication of how the boat is
doing under the particular conditions, and how it is responding to
adjustments in the sails, rigging, etc. In other words, if changes in
the sails under the particular wind conditions result in better speed,
pointing, etc., then the boat is doing what I want it to do.

Katy, I'm not sure you have a proper appreciation for the great
traditions and history of sailing through the years. - With respect to
the suggestion that the Macs aren't real sailing vessels because most of
the dealers don't advertise the availability of anemometers for them,
did Columbus, or Magellan, or the captain of the Mayflower, etc., have
anemometers onboard their vessels? Did the clipper ships, or even more
modern, transitional sailing vessels? For example, The Elissa, launched
in 1873, on which I crewed several years, was in service for so many
years that it is thought to have more miles at sea than any other
sailing vessel, all without the benefits of an anemometer. I also don't
recall the Vikings having anemometers aboard their boats, or the Greeks
or Romans, etc., - In other words, are you saying that these people
were not true SAILORS, or that their ships weren't true SAILBOATS
because they didn't have anemometers? For thousands of years sailors
have been carrying on the great traditions and adventures of sailing
relying on their own observations of wind and sea conditions. They
navigated and sailed around the world under the most extreme conditions
relying on their observations of current conditions interpreted in light
of their experience at sea, their training, and their knowledge of the
characteristics of their respective vessels. - I hope to do the same
with my new Mac 26M, with or without a permanently mounted anemometer.

Jim

Jim Cate a NO Show
 

Don't know... you're the expert. Is it the same for gay guys?
(hint: ask your boyfriend)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:35:53 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Yep. Same here in the SF bay... usually 15-17kts when they start to form.

So it's still the same for gay guys?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

Yeah, but you're an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jun 2004 04:22:27 GMT, "Scott Vernon" wrote
this crap:

Cause I'm lazy? It WAS blowing hard all morning, it had just calmed down
some, so I had Lisa steer while I went to unshake the reef, grabbed the
camera and went forward to take the pic.

Bad answer. I would have taken out the reef long ago.



Nice boat, but why are you reefed in such light wind?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Sail pic
 

Bobsprit wrote:
...But Loco and Scotty and Doug simply insisted that using thimbles and
shackles (as done here) is NEVER practiced.

I never said anything of the kind. All I said is that I've never seen it
or heard of it.

Now that I've proven them wrong again

What exactly have you proven?

Boobsie, you're really nuts.

DSK

Sail pic
 

...But Loco and Scotty and Doug simply insisted that using thimbles and
shackles (as done here) is NEVER practiced.

I never said anything of the kind. All I said is that I've never seen it
or heard of it.


Holy backpedal, Batman!!!!


RB