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katysails wrote:

God threw out his children for minor defiance? What a terrible parent.

God did not throw them out...they threw themselves out by the consequences
of their own actions....stop looking at the story and start looking at the
message...if you do evil, you are punished..

So, knowlege _is_ evil to the believers?

Cheeers

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So, knowlege _is_ evil to the believers?

Np...knowledge is not evil...it is what a person with free will does with
the knowledge that can become evil....knowledge is a tool that can be used
for either good or evil....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

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katysails wrote:

So, knowlege _is_ evil to the believers?

Np...knowledge is not evil...it is what a person with free will does with
the knowledge that can become evil....knowledge is a tool that can be used
for either good or evil....

So why was eating fruit from the tree of knowledge forbidden?

Cheers

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MC asked: So why was eating fruit from the tree of knowledge forbidden?

For the love a....there was NO fruit...it's an allegory....what it indicates
is that since mankind now had the ability to choose...because he now had a
conscience...life would become much more difficult....he would be affected
by his actions....he would have to think about everything and make
plans....he would have to weigh judgments....life became more complicated as
soon as man eveolved into sentience...

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Apple is not fruit?

S

"katysails" wrote

For the love a....there was NO fruit...

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"katysails" wrote in message
...
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

The Torah...the first 5 books of the Bible....the Hebrew is much different
than the translation and has been much edited to suit the politics of
following generations....


Yes, of course anyone interested in the earliest version of the writings goes to
the original Hebrew, considered essentially unmodified for about 2500 years.
Unfortunately, a small number of the words have lost their meanings over the
years and translators have to guess at the meanings. The most accurate English
transplantation is the JPS Tanakh (the Hebrew acronym for the Old Testament)
though the KJV is still the most poetic.

There is a form of biblical study called the "Documentary Hypothesis" that tries
to unravel the actual authors of the various parts of the Torah. The basic idea
is that the southern kingdom, Judah had their bible, written by an author
designation "J" because they referred to God as "Jehovah," and the northern
kingdom had their version, called "E" for "Elohim." There is much "politics"
contained in the various parts, for instance, in J Jacob gives his birthright to
Judah, but in E, Joseph gets the double portion, and Jacob overrides Joseph's
wish that Manasseh should be favored by declaring that Ephraim will be greater.
Ephraim happened to contain the capital of the northern kingdom, and was the
tribe of the northern king. When the northern kingdom was conquered and
refugees streamed south, J and E got combined in a way the was not complimentary
to the Priests, so they wrote their own version, P, which includes the famous
"First Creation" in Genesis, half of the Noah story, "updates" on lots of the JE
stories, plus all the stuff about sacrifices. D (Deuteronomy) got added on
later, as part of the historical books that follow the Torah. This all got
combined by the "redactor," R, possibly Ezra, about 500 BCE.

Anyone interested in this stuff should read "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard
Elliott Freidman.

BTW, none of this is the "original version" Vito is claiming knowledge of - I'm
still waiting for that.

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"Jeff Morris" wrote

I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm not sure you'll find an easy to read one-on-one version because it is by
definition heretical. Parts have come to light in recently discovered
manuscripts that predate the Pentateuch, and more come to light every day.
These are often in archiac languages that use symbols for words and ideas
instead of an aphabet, making translation at once difficult and unreliable.
You'll have to search them out then search thru them. That's half the fun.

Try a search on www.dogpile.com.

Research http://www.mindspring.com/~bab5/BIB/lessons.htm ,
http://www.probe.org/menus/wp-theol.html ,
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/g...gion/index.htm , and especially
http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr...slegends1a.htm

There is or used to be a group of serious scholors on the internet but they
were forced from site to site by rabid Christians posting their dogmatic
myths and I no longer know where to fimd them.

Definately read
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theed..._Xty.htm#X_ONE and
http://www.lilitu.com/lilith/lil_alt-myth.html

There'll be an exam next Thursday so study hard (c:

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The Talmud is not "the original bible," it is a series of discussions by rabbis
compiled during the second through sixth centuries. Actually, there are two
versions, one called the Jerusalem Talmud, the other the Babylonian Talmud.
These, together with a few other compilations, form the Rabbinic Writings that
are the basis for modern Judaism.

The Talmud is layered on top of the "Mishna," the "Oral Teachings" of Moses,
which traditionally is just as important as the written teachings (the Torah).
The Mishna was written down about 200 CE, and this started the process of
commentary that became the Talmud. However, it is often hard to tell what parts
of the Talmud are actually ancient traditions, and what was more contemporary.
Given that the Talmud was compiled roughly a thousand years after the Torah was
written down, its real hard to claim it pre-dated the Bible in any sense. The
scope of the Talmud is vast, covering all aspects of life, some parts still seem
fresh today, other parts were already archaic when it was compiled.


"katysails" wrote in message
...
I mispoke...the Talmud, not the Torah....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

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"DSK" wrote
I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

IIRC neither the Book of Genesis found in xian bibles nor the Pentateuch
mentions Lillith (You'll have to look to their precursors). That's
understandable. Remember, very ancient peoples and even some fairly modern
ones (eg Australian Aboriginies) had yet to discover the male role in
procreation and instead believed the female spontaniously created life.
Hence their primary gods were female and their societies matrilineal. The
change to patriarchal gods and societies was still underway when the Hebrew
version that became the basis of Genesis was redacted from earlier creation
myths so Lillith became a demon vs a goddess.

Read the examples I offered to Jeff.

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Sorry Vito. You've just moved yourself to the head of the **** list with that
one. Recommending the works of a white supremacist, racist, anti-Semite as a
"must read" doesn't win you any points here. Theedrich's site may be required
reading at David Duke University, but I can hardly accept him as a scholarly
source.



"Vito" wrote in message
...

Definately read
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theed..._Xty.htm#X_ONE and