My 97 wrangler just turned 210,000 in the hands of my son. Not one problem,
except changing the headlight switch and converter at about 170,000.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where
the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved
to go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on
my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like
it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I
could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler
minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB

"Peter S/Y Anicula" wrote:
Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?
Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

Yep. It was the late 60s and, per your description, the boat was "an
old-fashioned wood open cockpit" version. As for discomfort being
related solely to the size, let's break "discomfort" down into several
components.

Belowdecks: A modern 'glass boat of similar length is immensely
roomier than any wood boat of that age and style. Doug has made this
comparison and comment frequently. There just ain't a lot of room
there. That's one of the discomforts of this (type of) boat.

Abovedecks: IMHO, this is a wet boat to sail, at its best. And this
particular boat was a pretty significant leaker as well. Well, I guess
that kinda feeds back into "belowdecks" complaints; but it wasn't just
the hull which was leaky, it was the deck, fittings, companionway,
everything. It was just a *wet* boat.

Sailing qualities: Doug mentioned that this type of design, and the
Folkboat in particular, tends to heel more than more-modern designs.
I'd say that she *likes* to bury the rail. I guess that's not
necessarily A Bad Thing (TM) in and of itself; but it sure adds to the
wetness and discomfort factors. I've resisted saying that I don't like
the performance characteristics of the Folkboat; but to be bluntly
honest, I don't like the performance characteristics of the Folkboat.
Subjective assessment, but there it is.

As I said, I've become distinctly anti-traditional, more so over time;
so my opinions are biased strongly in that direction. I certainly do
admire anyone who has the time, dedication, and money to maintain a
beautiful old wooden boat. But that ain't me anymore. And I sure don't
wanna go sailing on one for more than a day's fantasy outing. BTDT. I
paid my dues and moved on into the late twentieth century. And now
we're in the twenty-first century. We're no longer limited to wood,
hemp, canvas, and the like. We have fiberglass, aluminium, kevlar,
carbonfiber, and who knows what else.

Like I said, I'd love to meet you on a tropical island and argue boats
over a couple of umbrella drinks. But to get there, I'll be the guy
from the fiberglass fin-keel sloop. If we go out shopping for boats
together, I promise I won't bid against you for ownership of any Colin
Archer designs, or Valiants, or Hans Christians, or Island Packets,
etc. They're all yours. Enjoy.

Frank

DSK wrote:
....snip...
My imprssion of the Folkboat and it's many near-sisters is that they
actually are pretty good sailing boats, but have some quirks.
....snip...
Some of those old time boats were high art. They take a lot of very
specialized care, which most people don't have the time for even if they
had the patience (if they had the patience, the skills would follow).
One blessing is that the proper materials to take care of the survivors
are easier to find now than they were 35 years ago.
....snip...
If I had to do something of the sort, I'd probably make it an S-boat.
....snip...
My grandfather's soul would be pleased. The problem is that I've been
spoiled too long... had a series of boats that were less trouble, easier
to handle and less likely to bite if mis-handled, far less maintenance,
drier inside (and having a dry bunk can be worth a LOT), faster, etc
etc. My wife and I looked for a couple of years for a "big & serious"
cruising sailboat that had our desired features... speed, comfort,
seaworthy enough (but not making big sacrifices for it), good looks,
plus shallow draft... but we eventually got a tugboat instead and now we
just sail for fun.


Hi, Doug,

I'm just gonna make some general comments here to avoid having this
thread get too long and complicated to read by interspersing 'em. I
made a bunch of comments about the Folkboat specifically in my
response to Peter, so I'll avoid repeating those specifics here.

I'll preempt antagonistic comments about my choices by admitting that
I've gotten old and lazy. However, even as a young guy, I found that
owning a wooden boat meant spending more time doing maintenance than
sailing. I'm too lazy to consider that "fun." I'm not a woodworker,
I'm a sailor. (With apologies to Dr. McCoy from the original Star
Trek.) To me, that means that I do maintenance because I must, not
because it's a pleasurable end in itself. I also don't wanna be a
diesel mechanic, or an electrician, or a plumber, or whatever. If I
were rich, I admit I'd pay somebody to do all that kinda crap.

I'm 56 and I've been sailing since I was a kid. I've been on a lot of
different types of boats for varying lengths of time, not just around
the buoys on Wednesday night. So, when I say that I prefer one thing
to another, I'm not just shooting from the hip or commenting based on
something I once read. I'm making an informed choice based on my
personal experience. I completely understand that YMMV.

For instance, consider the Pardeys. They have vastly more experience
than I and pretty much every opinion they have and every decision they
make is the polar opposite of mine. Does that mean that they're right
and I'm wrong? Or vice versa? Well, if I were drunk enough (in vino
veritas) after our evening of umbrella drinks in that tropical bar, I
might admit that I do think they're kinda wacky. But they seem pretty
happy with who and where they are in life. And they're sure making
more money from sailing than I am. From what I hear, even The Boobster
has a sailing book deal in the works. Imagine that. A sailing book by
Nutsy. The mind boggles. Anyway...

I guess it's nice that there are designers and builders who produce
"traditional" boats and designers and builders who produce other kinds
of boats. That way all us happy little consumers can make whatever
choices we want to.

Frank

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
m...
"Donal" asked:
"Frank Maier" wrote:
...snip...
Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados.

Did you start from England, *or* from the Canaries?

Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.

Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!

I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????



Regards


Donal
--

Is your boat in the water? Because both oars are not.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I haven't been working at all, and my boat is not in Georgia.

That still doesn't explain why you don't know the diffence between being
able
to
cruise the Chesapeake one weekend and the Georgia sounds the next, while
working
full time.

DSK

"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles. I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

Frank

I'm curious myself. Have tentative plans to do a crossing in late November,
big hop will be from the Canaries to Antigua, wondering what the weather
might be like.The folks that give you any grief aren't worth bothering
about.
John Cairns
"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles. I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

Frank

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles.

Don't worry. You've already proved that you aren't a Jax.


I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.

Sorry. Blame Scotty! My address should now be correct apart from the
"spam" bit.


So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

Exactly!

Most of us are *genuinely* interested in sailing.



In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

I look forward to it.... even if it is a few weeks before you manage to put
pen to paper.




Regards


Donal
--

Frank Maier wrote:
I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego).

Why not? That's what it's here for.

"If you can do it, it ain't bragging."

... Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles.

IMHO most people that read more than one or two posts by those guys get
the idea that there is something wrong, and can tell the difference
between real sailing discussion and BS artistry.


... I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

You caught the group at a bad time. It's usually not this off track,
although it helps to widen the discussion subject matter from "sailing"
to "things of interest to sailors." Once people get tired of baiting
JAXAshby (and I for one have almost no interest in playing
kick-the-clown) it will get better.



In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

S'OK, there will still be somebody here to appreciate it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

can tell the difference
between real sailing discussion and BS artistry.

Really? Anyone believe it was dougies who made that statement? the same
dougies who stated that motoring a Hunter 19 down Interstate 95 was "sailing"?
And that he had traveled over 275 miles doing it?

You know, if dougies had an AMF Puffer instead he could "sailed" faster and
maybe have made 350 miles down the highway.

yeah, but nightfall was coming and dougies don't drive at night no more.