Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?
Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

Peter S/Y Anicula


tho
"Frank Maier" skrev i en meddelelse
om...
DSK wrote...
JAXAshby wrote:
...snip...
FWIW dougie, a couple of years ago a 75 year old man crossed the
North Atlantic
east to west in a Folkboat. Know anyone at all -- let alone one
75 years --
who has crossed the NA in a Hunter 19 in either direction?

Crossing oceans is not the only way to evaluate a cruising boat.
When was the last
time a Folkboat... or your boat... spent a 3 day weekend cruising
comfortably in
pleasant sailing waters 275 miles away from it's home slip? Or a
weeks vacation
over 600 miles away?
...snip...
Wait, look at me trying to talk sense to Jax. Phooey.

Doug,

This last point is, of course, your essential error. grin

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against
it.

Frank

Peter S/Y Anicula wrote:
Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?

Depends on how much bigger.
Not only are bigger boats roomier with better stowage and more
comfortable access & cabin layouts, but their very size makes them more
seaworthy and less bouncy underway (all else being equal, of course).


Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

I'm thinking that in 1968 it would have to have been wood.

The Kings Cruiser was a lovely boat. It was cramped for a 29 footer,
especially by modern standards. For example, the Hunter 290 we recently
sailed had an aft cabin where the Kings Cruiser didn't even have a
place. And even with the doghouse, they don't have standing headroom for
an average size adult... but unlike the Folkboat, you can at least
stretch out enough to get your pants on.

We raced the KC29 in a PHRF fleet for a couple of seasons... compared to
the average mass-produced racer cruiser of that era, it was't slow
except hard on the wind... and then if it was choppy, that evened things
up. one of the benefits of the old fashioned narrow hull is that it goes
thru steep waves much easier. Of course it would not take off and fly
off the wind like a modern boat will. But of the short-keeled
attached-rudder heavy disp boats I've sailed, it was one of the most
mannerly (or is it my memory looking back with rose-colered glasses?).
It was a great boat... but I'm not really tempted to go that way again,
even for nostalgia.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Peter S/Y Anicula" wrote:
Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?
Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

Yep. It was the late 60s and, per your description, the boat was "an
old-fashioned wood open cockpit" version. As for discomfort being
related solely to the size, let's break "discomfort" down into several
components.

Belowdecks: A modern 'glass boat of similar length is immensely
roomier than any wood boat of that age and style. Doug has made this
comparison and comment frequently. There just ain't a lot of room
there. That's one of the discomforts of this (type of) boat.

Abovedecks: IMHO, this is a wet boat to sail, at its best. And this
particular boat was a pretty significant leaker as well. Well, I guess
that kinda feeds back into "belowdecks" complaints; but it wasn't just
the hull which was leaky, it was the deck, fittings, companionway,
everything. It was just a *wet* boat.

Sailing qualities: Doug mentioned that this type of design, and the
Folkboat in particular, tends to heel more than more-modern designs.
I'd say that she *likes* to bury the rail. I guess that's not
necessarily A Bad Thing (TM) in and of itself; but it sure adds to the
wetness and discomfort factors. I've resisted saying that I don't like
the performance characteristics of the Folkboat; but to be bluntly
honest, I don't like the performance characteristics of the Folkboat.
Subjective assessment, but there it is.

As I said, I've become distinctly anti-traditional, more so over time;
so my opinions are biased strongly in that direction. I certainly do
admire anyone who has the time, dedication, and money to maintain a
beautiful old wooden boat. But that ain't me anymore. And I sure don't
wanna go sailing on one for more than a day's fantasy outing. BTDT. I
paid my dues and moved on into the late twentieth century. And now
we're in the twenty-first century. We're no longer limited to wood,
hemp, canvas, and the like. We have fiberglass, aluminium, kevlar,
carbonfiber, and who knows what else.

Like I said, I'd love to meet you on a tropical island and argue boats
over a couple of umbrella drinks. But to get there, I'll be the guy
from the fiberglass fin-keel sloop. If we go out shopping for boats
together, I promise I won't bid against you for ownership of any Colin
Archer designs, or Valiants, or Hans Christians, or Island Packets,
etc. They're all yours. Enjoy.

Frank