"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote in message
...
Are you claiming that you can maintain a proper lookout with radar
alone?


Thats what I'm claiming Donal. I would not suggest it running a
strange river for the first time, but if you have navigated the same
area many times and you know it like the back of your hand then you
can safely run it with a quality fine tuned radar.

Emmmm... Aren't we discussing the Coll Regs? The International Rules
for
the avoidance of Collisions??

I don't see how "familiarity" with a particular stretch of water can
help
you avoid a collision.



So where in the Colregs does it say you can't run on radar alone?

=================================
Rule 5

Look-out

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision.
=================================

Of course,
one should always have a visual (and sound) watch, but that is moot if
there is
effectively zero visibility.

Jeff. It isn't moot. "at ***all**** times .... by sight and sound...".


Regards

Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message
...

So where in the Colregs does it say you can't run on radar alone?

=================================
Rule 5

Look-out

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision.
=================================

That says you must maintain the lookout - it doesn't say you can't proceed when
visibility is limited. The courts have ruled that speeds up to 10 knots and
higher can be a safe speed in some circumstances, even in very limited
visibility.

Adding radar (required on all large ships) raises the "acceptable" speed a bit.
As I mentioned in the case of the Fast Cat Ferry, it was going 13.4 knots
shortly before the collision - this was not considered a factor in the
collision. Given that there was "zero visibility" we have to view this as
effectively running on radar alone.


Of course,
one should always have a visual (and sound) watch, but that is moot if
there is
effectively zero visibility.

Jeff. It isn't moot. "at ***all**** times .... by sight and sound...".

I don't see your point here at all. Are you claiming that all traffic should
stop in thick fog? This is clearly not what happens. The laws and the court
rulings allow continuing, within limits, on radar alone. Clearly society has
determined that the value of continued commerce outweighs the risks to some
vessels.

If you're going to fantasize about a better world, how about one without the
common cold?

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message
...

So where in the Colregs does it say you can't run on radar alone?

=================================
Rule 5

Look-out

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the
situation
and of the risk of collision.
=================================

That says you must maintain the lookout - it doesn't say you can't proceed
when
visibility is limited. The courts have ruled that speeds up to 10 knots
and
higher can be a safe speed in some circumstances, even in very limited
visibility.

Adding radar (required on all large ships) raises the "acceptable" speed a
bit.
As I mentioned in the case of the Fast Cat Ferry, it was going 13.4 knots
shortly before the collision - this was not considered a factor in the
collision. Given that there was "zero visibility" we have to view this as
effectively running on radar alone.


Of course,
one should always have a visual (and sound) watch, but that is moot if
there is
effectively zero visibility.

Jeff. It isn't moot. "at ***all**** times .... by sight and
sound...".

I don't see your point here at all.

Why not?

Are you claiming that all traffic should
stop in thick fog?

No! All vessels should not exceed a safe speed.


This is clearly not what happens. The laws and the court
rulings allow continuing, within limits, on radar alone.

The CollRegs do not allow travelling on radar alone.

=================================
Rule 5

Look-out

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision.
=================================


Clearly society has
determined that the value of continued commerce outweighs the risks to
some
vessels.





If you're going to fantasize about a better world, how about one without
the
common cold?

I'm simply suggesting that the CollRegs should apply.

Earlier, you claimed that I didn't know the CollRegs. Now you seem to be
claiming that commercial considerations should outweigh the CollRegs.
Which is it, Jeff?



Regards


Donal
--