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#91
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"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
Joe, You're always in a fog. Not so! But if I were, I could still do a job. Unlike you and Donal. My boat would be employed while your would be let go first. I would study and perfect my skills at getting the job done safely, while you would be dead in the water afraid to move. Joe S.Simon "Joe" wrote in message om... "Donal" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message om... "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule that states you must slow down to a safe speed in restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of the Rules. Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not unsafe. Think Radar! Think Radio! What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to. A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything! What about a tree trunk the size of a car? Any running lights on it, How about a bouy, not all are lit. Hows about the typical weekend warrior who forgot to turn on his running lights, hows about a rocky jettie, how about a tow line and the million other things you can not see on a pitch black night? I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time. That is really scary! To a lubber like you I imagine it is. Bet you would **** your pants if you ever landed on a airplane in the fog two. But 100's of them do it every day. Regards, Joe Regards Donal -- |
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#92
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Hey Donal ..... he's not a "yachtie"
Hey Joe ..... There's a big difference between yachts and workboats and their operation. You're trying to argue a totally different "mind set" and it doesn't work. In the end, you're both generally correct, but for different reasons. otn Donal wrote: "Joe" wrote in message om... "Donal" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message e.com... What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to. A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything! What about a tree trunk the size of a car? Any running lights on it, How about a bouy, not all are lit. Hows about the typical weekend warrior who forgot to turn on his running lights, hows about a rocky jettie, how about a tow line and the million other things you can not see on a pitch black night? Are you really claiming that it is easy to avoid hitting a tree trunk at 25 kts? Are you saying that you think that it is easier to miss a buoy at 25 kts than at 4 kts?? Pull the other one, Joe -- I put some bells on it, just for you. That is really scary! To a lubber like you I imagine it is. Bet you would **** your pants if you ever landed on a airplane in the fog two. But 100's of them do it every day. Well, these days it is easy to land a plane. They land themselves. Fog has nothing at all to do with landing a modern aircraft. Regards Donal -- |
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#93
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"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message m... (Roy G. Biv) wrote in message news Yeah, I recall a ferry smashing into the dock in the clear daylight not so long ago in NY. Accidents happen. They failed to maintain a proper lookout with radar. Has nothing to do with safe speed, the jerk you talked about most likely would of ran someone over at 3 knots. Are you claiming that you can maintain a proper lookout with radar alone? Thats what I'm claiming Donal. I would not suggest it running a strange river for the first time, but if you have navigated the same area many times and you know it like the back of your hand then you can safely run it with a quality fine tuned radar. I've done it a thousand times. Nothing to it. If it's fog bound in an area I'm not familiar with I usually wait and follow someone that knows the area. You are the perfect example of the weekend warrior that has no clue. Take you boat out every day for a year and study every dock, bend,tank, slip, strem,ect on your radar, add those details to your charts, including the names of every dock. Study your local area and you will be able to do the same without a problem. Joe Regards Donal -- |
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#94
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"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message om... "Donal" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message om... What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to. A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything! What about a tree trunk the size of a car? Any running lights on it, How about a bouy, not all are lit. Hows about the typical weekend warrior who forgot to turn on his running lights, hows about a rocky jettie, how about a tow line and the million other things you can not see on a pitch black night? Are you really claiming that it is easy to avoid hitting a tree trunk at 25 kts? Yes, if you see it on radar a mile ahead of you, its not a problem. I will admit Ive struck enough submerged logs the the owner of one crewboat I ran hung so many destroyed propellers on his beach house that he named it the broken wheel ranch. Thats just part of the job and should be expected on a high speed boat running the rivers of LA. Are you saying that you think that it is easier to miss a buoy at 25 kts than at 4 kts?? Its very easy to miss a bouy if you can see it on radar, and most bouys and day shapes are designed to be seen on radar, big suprise huh? If you get really good at radar you learn the ranges for the ports you run. We had color radars on the MV Comet I ran and you could assign diffrent colors for the height of objects. So lining up the ranges was a piece of cake. You do know what range marker are huh? Also when you came into a big field full of rigs you knew by the color assigned to the rig and knew which one you should be going to. Pull the other one, Joe -- I put some bells on it, just for you. That is really scary! To a lubber like you I imagine it is. Bet you would **** your pants if you ever landed on a airplane in the fog two. But 100's of them do it every day. Well, these days it is easy to land a plane. They land themselves. Fog has nothing at all to do with landing a modern aircraft. Same thing on a modern vessel, I quit working boats 10+ years ago Donal and with the advancement of things like radar,FLIR and gps plotters it got to be a 100 times easier today. Joe Regards Donal -- |
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#95
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"Joe" wrote in message om... "Donal" wrote in message ... No, no, no...... You have to guess your position without *any* aids. Oh OK. Sorta like Physic viewing. ****...... if I could do that I'd be working for the CIA. Hmmmm. Now I think that I understand your dependance on radar. You don't know how to navigate without high-tech aids, do you? Thats the answer.... Lets hire a Yachtsmaster to find Ossama. Could an average yachtmaster do any worse than GWB? Regards Donal -- |
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#96
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"Joe" wrote in message om... "Donal" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message om... Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because of the speed we were running? Yes! I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage. has nothing to do with steerage dufass, it's about doing a job. Airplanes land in fog today, ships run in it and they are able to do it thru the miracle of radar. You do not pass at full speed, you do not meet other vessels at full speed. You talk to everyone your going to meet if you can by radio. Nothing magic about it, just plain commen sence. The job can be done safely. Just because you and Capt. Neal lack the skill, will not make the facts different. Well, .... common sense suggests to me that your radar cannot see below your bow. Common sense also suggests that, in a river, boats could come out from the side, suddenly. Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid. Regards Donal -- |
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#97
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Donal wrote:
Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid. http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...504230-07.hcsp http://www.shipownersclub.com/losspr...asia/39495.htm Its Joes license at stake, the acceptable risk is his to bear. We have similar issues in the keys running tourists to the reef: if the weather is borderline and we cancel we lose revenue to competion who will accept the risk. IF We don't run , we lose needed revenue to competition. Its the captians responsibility to assess weather for Each and Every trip. I have run plenty of trips where conditions were fine for sailing but not snorkelling and I have been quite clear to all passengers about the conditions and once I explain expected conditions its common for some to drop out, I would rather lose them upfront than have them go and not have a good time because it was too rough. People actually show up at the dock with winds @25knots expecting to go snorkelling in conditions reflected by postcard photographs.... I remember explaining to one family about the rough conditions over the phone, THEY WANTED TO GO. THEY DIDN'T CARE. When they showed up at the dock they hadn't mentioned their small kids or the pregnant wife in her 8&1/2 month. I thought these people were absolutely nuts and they were quite upset when I cancelled. |
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#98
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"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Well, .... common sense suggests to me that your radar cannot see below your bow. Your an idiot Donal, I can see everything in front of my bow, that why we usually mount radars at the top of the wheelhouse, true I might not see something 10 foot in front of the bow but I will know it's there because I saw it from a mile to 10 foot in front of the bow. Common sense also suggests that, in a river, boats could come out from the side, suddenly. Ever hear 4 or 5 detroit diesels running at full speed? you can hear them a mile away. Only problems I ever had were duck hunters that pulled flat bottom boats up on the bank. Some times they get upset by a wake. Most the locals and the guides know commerical boats run these rivers and expect huge wakes. And find protected places to pull the boats up. I sail near the Houston ship channel all the time. Several time I've been fog bound, I did not have radar at the time. Just got out of the channel and wated it out. But all the ships keep running at full speed and send huge wakes out of the channel. I know if Im near the channel these wake will come after the noise of the ship passing. It's one of those common sence things. Check out a coastal pilot for the Missippi delta area and you will see that they have thick fog around 110 days a year on average. Is all work suppose to stop? How long do you think you would stay employed for an oil company if you stopped every time fog blew in. You stop for 24 hours to wait out fog you cost your customer 45,000 dollars to 100,000 dollars depending on the rig. And the most expensive rigs are in the mississippi canyon area were the water is 1400 foot deep. The companies knew my boat would do the job. That whay I always worked the big money rigs like Bull Winkle. Why in the hell do you think radars are put on boats? Is it just a gadget to impress people like Bobspirt uses his? Or is it a tool to help you complete a task? Joe Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid. Were back to the same thing Donal.Your just to stupid to understand it can be done safely. You have no pratical experience in doing it, and I guess until then you will never be able to comprehend. Regards Donal -- |
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#100
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Donal is right. I never leave the slip if there's even a hint of fog.
Or if fog is predicted. Or when rain is forecast. Or winds above 6 kts. RB |
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