Its not that the ICW is poorly charted, its that the chart only has to be off by 100 feet
to put you on land. Its possible that the last time through SA was turned on for a while,
but I really had the feeling that several of the charts I was using was simply displaced
by 100 feet of so. So how often do you think the creeks in Georgia get re-surveyed?

For an article on the errors in Bimini, see:
http://www.bluewaterweb.com/news/9-01gps.htm

Your comments are inconsistent - first you say GPS "should never be relied on as sole
source" but you claim that you don't agree with "You should not rely on a GPS when using a
chart."

Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you make any sense. At
least Neal sticks to one position, albeit usually wrong.


--
-jeff
"Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
First off it's difficult to believe that any stretches of the ICW are poorly
charted. I'm not a big proponent of GPS accuracy... I do concur with Jon's
assertion that it's a tool... it has it's limits and should never be relied
on as sole source for navigation. That being said... I've seen supposedly
competent sailors use default datum or operate in 3D fix modes. What I don't
agree with is ...

A]- "You should not rely on a GPS when using a chart"
That position would have you question your radar, sonar, chronograph and
compasses.. never mind the plotting tools!

B]- "It tells you nothing about your actual position relative to actual
obstructions"

It does indeed confirm a fix if you have a chart..... so does radar.

C]- "Charts are notoriously inaccurate and don't match long/lat info

P-l-l-u-u-u-u-e-e-e-e-z-z-z-z-e-e-e...... they certainly are Not!.
Especially if
you can read one, verify fixes and have the latest datum.

CM






"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| Jon has a point. There are certain locations that are notoriously poorly
charted,
| datum-wise. The ChartKit I have for the Bahamas is way off. I also
found that for long
| stretches of the ICW, my charted position was on dry land.
|
| For most of where I sail, however, the GPS and the chart agree to a boat
length or better.
|
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| Were did you dig up this crap Jon??? Learn how to enter correct datum
and
| save yourself further embarrassment.
|
| It's a good thing both you and Neal sail in protected waters with line
of
| sight navigation or there would be a lot less boats around.
|
| CM
|
| "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
| ...
| | You should not rely on a GPS when using a chart. It's a tool
| | only. It tells you nothing about your actual position relative to
| | actual obstructions. Charts are notoriously inaccurate and
| | don't match long/lat info.
| |
| | "Simple Simon" wrote in message
| | ...
| | And, good morning to you, sir!
| |
| | With the advent of GPS and its accurate nature, plotting your
| | position on a chart is a more accurate method than using
| | depth readings and dead reckoning. It's that simple.
| |
| | S.Simon
| |
| |
| | "Thom Stewart" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Good Morning Simple,
| |
| | Many of us SAILORS that sail among Whales use charts and depth
finders
| | to get a location of exactly where we are on the chart. This is an
| | accepted practest in DED piloting.
| |
| | We finally got a nice cleaning rain last night and we have about
5mph
| | wind at the house here. Waiting for my dog to wake up. We'll
| probabilly
| | spend the day out on the water. The Pilothouse will come into
play.
| Nice
| | and dry and warm.
| |
| | OT
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

not me, I just follow the sun.

SV

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
As an aid to navigation... Yes.. I use a GPS..... along with the other
tools... chrono, compass, log, charts, sounder, radar.

Isn't that the whole point of Usenet?


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote

Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you
make any sense.

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Its not that the ICW is poorly charted, its that the chart only has to be off by 100 feet
to put you on land. Its possible that the last time through SA was turned on for a while,
but I really had the feeling that several of the charts I was using was simply displaced
by 100 feet of so. So how often do you think the creeks in Georgia get re-surveyed?

For an article on the errors in Bimini, see:
http://www.bluewaterweb.com/news/9-01gps.htm

Your comments are inconsistent - first you say GPS "should never be relied on as sole
source" but you claim that you don't agree with "You should not rely on a GPS when using a
chart."

Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you make any sense. At
least Neal sticks to one position, albeit usually wrong.


Like when I wrote that perhaps I should give you more credit for being a
real sailor? He he!

S.Simon

"Simple Simon" wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote:

Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you make any sense.
At
least Neal sticks to one position, albeit usually wrong.


Like when I wrote that perhaps I should give you more credit for being a
real sailor? He he!


I don't disagree with your conclusion but your reason for giving me that special
recognition was faulty.

jeff - A real sailor for many reasons

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Isn't that the whole point of Usenet?

No.



Regards


Donal
--

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote

Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you
make any sense.

By what definition is that about a wake? Simian, your blowing smoke
again. A Wake is formed by any movement of the hull thru the water.

OT

Try not to talk down to someone that has spent time in cartography Jeff.
With an expected accuracy of 50 feet max... a GPS is accurate enough but not
pin point. I believe I stated it should be used in conjunction with a chart
and not as a stand alone based on waypoint data not verified to the chart
datum. If you have a chart whose GPS Data puts you aground by 100 feet...
you are either using errata datum or your chart is ****ed. Do you have any
comprehension of the sphere labeled as "sea level" and the fact it's
actually a not actually perfectly spherical?

You want to really converse on the specifics of GPS with someone that has
utilized it for data triangulation. I have targeted data over a 48 hour
period based on surveyed benchmarks that clearly illustrates the accuracy
expected at differing latitudes and altitudes. It looks like a shot gun
pattern at 20 meters.[s/a off] I can still give you the error ratio for your
chart with 3 separate fixes confirmed and verified by alternate sources.

A correctly configured GPS is a great tool...... when used by knowledgeable
people and proper charts.

CM

You can rely on a GPS to provide very usable data once you ascertain it's
accuracy on a chart by comparative data. Once that is established... you
should be well aware of your coordinates
"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| Its not that the ICW is poorly charted, its that the chart only has to be
off by 100 feet
| to put you on land. Its possible that the last time through SA was turned
on for a while,
| but I really had the feeling that several of the charts I was using was
simply displaced
| by 100 feet of so. So how often do you think the creeks in Georgia get
re-surveyed?
|
| For an article on the errors in Bimini, see:
| http://www.bluewaterweb.com/news/9-01gps.htm
|
| Your comments are inconsistent - first you say GPS "should never be relied
on as sole
| source" but you claim that you don't agree with "You should not rely on a
GPS when using a
| chart."
|
| Seems to me that you just like to argue and you don't care whether you
make any sense. At
| least Neal sticks to one position, albeit usually wrong.
|
|
| --
| -jeff
| "Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| First off it's difficult to believe that any stretches of the ICW are
poorly
| charted. I'm not a big proponent of GPS accuracy... I do concur with
Jon's
| assertion that it's a tool... it has it's limits and should never be
relied
| on as sole source for navigation. That being said... I've seen
supposedly
| competent sailors use default datum or operate in 3D fix modes. What I
don't
| agree with is ...
|
| A]- "You should not rely on a GPS when using a chart"
| That position would have you question your radar, sonar, chronograph and
| compasses.. never mind the plotting tools!
|
| B]- "It tells you nothing about your actual position relative to actual
| obstructions"
|
| It does indeed confirm a fix if you have a chart..... so does radar.
|
| C]- "Charts are notoriously inaccurate and don't match long/lat info
|
| P-l-l-u-u-u-u-e-e-e-e-z-z-z-z-e-e-e...... they certainly are Not!.
| Especially if
| you can read one, verify fixes and have the latest datum.
|
| CM
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
| ...
| | Jon has a point. There are certain locations that are notoriously
poorly
| charted,
| | datum-wise. The ChartKit I have for the Bahamas is way off. I also
| found that for long
| | stretches of the ICW, my charted position was on dry land.
| |
| | For most of where I sail, however, the GPS and the chart agree to a
boat
| length or better.
| |
| |
| | "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Were did you dig up this crap Jon??? Learn how to enter correct
datum
| and
| | save yourself further embarrassment.
| |
| | It's a good thing both you and Neal sail in protected waters with
line
| of
| | sight navigation or there would be a lot less boats around.
| |
| | CM
| |
| | "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | You should not rely on a GPS when using a chart. It's a tool
| | | only. It tells you nothing about your actual position relative to
| | | actual obstructions. Charts are notoriously inaccurate and
| | | don't match long/lat info.
| | |
| | | "Simple Simon" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | And, good morning to you, sir!
| | |
| | | With the advent of GPS and its accurate nature, plotting your
| | | position on a chart is a more accurate method than using
| | | depth readings and dead reckoning. It's that simple.
| | |
| | | S.Simon
| | |
| | |
| | | "Thom Stewart" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | Good Morning Simple,
| | |
| | | Many of us SAILORS that sail among Whales use charts and depth
| finders
| | | to get a location of exactly where we are on the chart. This
is an
| | | accepted practest in DED piloting.
| | |
| | | We finally got a nice cleaning rain last night and we have
about
| 5mph
| | | wind at the house here. Waiting for my dog to wake up. We'll
| | probabilly
| | | spend the day out on the water. The Pilothouse will come into
| play.
| | Nice
| | | and dry and warm.
| | |
| | | OT
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|

Wrong! Have you ever heard of an "Idle Speed - No Wake" zone?
Have you ever heard of a "Slow Speed - Minimum Wake" zone?

Sailboats don't make a wake. A sailboat at most makes a little
series of waves that follow along behind when at hull speed.
These waves do not constite the lawful definiton af a wake.

I hope this helps.

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
By what definition is that about a wake? Simian, your blowing smoke
again. A Wake is formed by any movement of the hull thru the water.

OT

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:37:00 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:

not me, I just follow the sun.

So, in the morning, you head East. And in the afternoon, you go back
where you started?



Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.