No - you said any depth water where a whale might be. I've seen whales maybe 20 times
from my boats - always in water less than 100 feet deep. For you that may sound deep -
certainly there are very few spots on the Florida Bay side of the Keys that are over 10
feet deep, but up here its very common to be in 50 feet 5 minutes after getting underway.

Its a long tradition around here to make coastal passages by running down the 10, 15 or 20
fathom line.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Idiots! All there are around here are idiots.

WE'RE NOT TALKING FORWARD LOOKING SONAR HERE.

Stop trying to change the subject. We're talking about how
depth sounders are useless in very deep water and a lot of
the time in shallow water.

S.Simon


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
This ain't big ship....

http://www.interphase-tech.com/probe.htm

or this.....

http://www.interphase-tech.com/seascout.htm

CM


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
|
| I repeat, WE'RE NOT TALKING BIG SHIP CRAP HERE!
|
| Depth sounders give a depth for sure and generally they are
| pretty accurate. However, what good is a depth when a
| vessel could be any number of miles along a contour or on
| a flat? Answer - no good at all. What matters is lat/lon with
| high degrees of accuracy. Knowing your depth is very vague
| information at best when attempting to place a fix on a chart.
|
| Small sailing yachts can rely on GPS so they do not need depth
| sounders as much as big ships. When a small sailing yacht is
| getting into dangerously shallow water the eyes of an experienced
| will look at the wave action, color of the water etc. and be able
| to ascertain the depth to a high degree of accuracy.
|
| Now, get out of here and go back to rec.boats where you belong.
|
| S.Simon
|
| "Shen44" wrote in message
...
| Subject: Faulty depth finder attributed to whale attack!!
| From: "Simple Simon"
| Date: 10/07/2003 08:10 Pacific Standard Time
| Message-id:
|
| Bull****. A chart shows contours, bottom make up such as
| rock, sand, shell etc., possible upcoming obstructions and
| the like. This info is simply not available on a yacht depth
| sounder.
|
| S.Simon - not talking about big ship crap here . . .
|
| Not talking about "big ship crap" .... talking about Navigation.
| A chart is nothing more than a "picture" of an area that you may be in
.... by
| itself, it's useless, until you can start applying other information,
gleaned
| from other sources to locate yourself in a position on that chart.
| A fathometer, be it a recording, digital readout, or blinking light will
help
| give you information to locate that position (personally, prefer the
| recording).
| Prior to the advent of all the electronic nav aids, such as LORAN, GPS,
| fathometers were much more frequently used to check, and even locate,
ones
| position on a chart, be it in shallow or deep water.
| It's just another tool you have available .... shame you don't
understand it's
| use .... but expected .....
|
| Shen
|
|

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You're point is not valid for sailors. Only professional motor
boaters carry on in such a stupid fashion. Only sloppy captains
like Shen44 and Otnmbrd allow such a slovenly-run ship.

Any cruising sailor worth his salt can look into and at the water
and tell immediately if he is in shoal water by the color, wave
action, shape, etc.

What rubbish! I suspect that you sail in crystal clear water......
actually, I suspect that you don't sail at all!

Regards


Donal
--

From: "Simple Simon"

comments intersperses:

I repeat, WE'RE NOT TALKING BIG SHIP CRAP HERE!

.....and I repeat .... it's NOT big ship crap, it's Navigation .... or is your
knowledge in this area as weak as it is in other areas?


Depth sounders give a depth for sure and generally they are
pretty accurate. However, what good is a depth when a
vessel could be any number of miles along a contour or on
a flat?

Actually, can be a good deal of good if you are following that depth contour to
stay clear of an obstruction.

Answer - no good at all. What matters is lat/lon with
high degrees of accuracy.

Wrong answer. Knowing your lat/lon is important (or range and bearing from a
known point) .... the degree of accuracy "needed" depends on where you are and
where you're going.

Knowing your depth is very vague
information at best when attempting to place a fix on a chart.

Here's where your inexperience becomes most obvious.
Using a running update on soundings can and has been used to get some very
accurate fixes on a chart.

Small sailing yachts can rely on GPS so they do not need depth
sounders as much as big ships.

Wrong for so many reasons .... for one thing, only a fool relies on one method
of navigation when other methods are available to check results .... the
instances of this leading to disasters are all too numerous, be it small boat,
bigger boat, and/or ship.

When a small sailing yacht is
getting into dangerously shallow water the eyes of an experienced
will look at the wave action, color of the water etc. and be able
to ascertain the depth to a high degree of accuracy.

Bullcrap .... at best, works only sometimes .... what does your wake tell you?


Now, get out of here and go back to rec.boats where you belong.

S.Simon

LOL Think you belong in a "basic" navigation course .... you've obviously
flunked any selftaught or other courses you may have endeavored to pass on this
subject.

Shen

"Shen44" wrote in message ...
..

Bullcrap .... at best, works only sometimes .... what does your wake tell you?


Snipped all Shen's drivel that does not apply to small sailing yachts
because it becomes very tedious to keep trying to explain to a person
unfamiliar with sailing over and over and over again.

However, I can't resist replying to the above because cabin boy
Shen thinks he can trap me with his stupid wake question.

Well, Boy Shen, I happen to know motor vessels squat when the
water becomes very shallow. Looking at a motorboat wake can tell
you if you're fixin' to run aground. However, this has nothing to do
with sailboats that are unaffected by this sort of squatting in shallow
water because they don't make a wake because of the hull design.

Duh!

S.Simon

Neal the Newbie! It was only a few years ago that a sounder was the most advance nav tool
we had. Now you're admitting you don't know how to use one and have know desire to learn.
Its beginning to look like Suzanne is really a better navigator than you are!

And what's this about "sailboats" don't leave wakes? Are you claiming your boat never
leaves a wake?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Shen44" wrote in message
...
.

Bullcrap .... at best, works only sometimes .... what does your wake tell you?


Snipped all Shen's drivel that does not apply to small sailing yachts
because it becomes very tedious to keep trying to explain to a person
unfamiliar with sailing over and over and over again.

However, I can't resist replying to the above because cabin boy
Shen thinks he can trap me with his stupid wake question.

Well, Boy Shen, I happen to know motor vessels squat when the
water becomes very shallow. Looking at a motorboat wake can tell
you if you're fixin' to run aground. However, this has nothing to do
with sailboats that are unaffected by this sort of squatting in shallow
water because they don't make a wake because of the hull design.

Duh!

S.Simon

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:43:47 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

You should not rely on a GPS when using a chart. It's a tool
only. It tells you nothing about your actual position relative to
actual obstructions. Charts are notoriously inaccurate and
don't match long/lat info.

I guess I shouldn't use a road map because sometimes they are
inaccurate, and often have the wrong names, dumbass.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

By definition, a wake is only formed when a boat is exceeding it's
hull speed. Since my sailboat only exceeds her hull speed when
surfing down the face of a very large wave and very large waves
cannot form is very shallow water, yes, my boat, under sail in
moderate winds, cannot exceed her hull speed and make a wake.

How can people who claim to be sailors be so uninformed?
I expect ignorance out of Cabin Boy Shen but from you I
expect a little sailing knowledge or have those multi-hulls
completely warped your senses?

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Neal the Newbie! It was only a few years ago that a sounder was the most advance nav tool
we had. Now you're admitting you don't know how to use one and have know desire to learn.
Its beginning to look like Suzanne is really a better navigator than you are!

And what's this about "sailboats" don't leave wakes? Are you claiming your boat never
leaves a wake?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Shen44" wrote in message
...
.

Bullcrap .... at best, works only sometimes .... what does your wake tell you?


Snipped all Shen's drivel that does not apply to small sailing yachts
because it becomes very tedious to keep trying to explain to a person
unfamiliar with sailing over and over and over again.

However, I can't resist replying to the above because cabin boy
Shen thinks he can trap me with his stupid wake question.

Well, Boy Shen, I happen to know motor vessels squat when the
water becomes very shallow. Looking at a motorboat wake can tell
you if you're fixin' to run aground. However, this has nothing to do
with sailboats that are unaffected by this sort of squatting in shallow
water because they don't make a wake because of the hull design.

Duh!

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
| And what's this about "sailboats" don't leave wakes? Are you claiming
your boat never
| leaves a wake?

The currents around his mooring aren't fast enough to cause a wake....

CM

My My My..... here I thought it was simply the the effect of displaced
water.

CM

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
| By definition, a wake is only formed when a boat is exceeding it's
| hull speed. Since my sailboat only exceeds her hull speed when
| surfing down the face of a very large wave and very large waves
| cannot form is very shallow water, yes, my boat, under sail in
| moderate winds, cannot exceed her hull speed and make a wake.
|
| How can people who claim to be sailors be so uninformed?
| I expect ignorance out of Cabin Boy Shen but from you I
| expect a little sailing knowledge or have those multi-hulls
| completely warped your senses?

Subject: Faulty depth finder attributed to whale attack!!
From: "Simple Simon"

"Shen44" wrote in message

Bullcrap .... at best, works only sometimes .... what does your wake tell
you?


Snipped all Shen's drivel that does not apply to small sailing yachts
because it becomes very tedious to keep trying to explain to a person
unfamiliar with sailing over and over and over again.

LOL You snipped it, NOT because it didn't apply to small sailing yachts, but
PURELY because you did not understand it and it's usefulness and application to
small sailing yachts, due to your inexperience and limited intelligence to
apply it to small sailing yachts.

However, I can't resist replying to the above because cabin boy
Shen thinks he can trap me with his stupid wake question.

.....and trap you he did.....

Well, Boy Shen, I happen to know motor vessels squat when the
water becomes very shallow. Looking at a motorboat wake can tell
you if you're fixin' to run aground. However, this has nothing to do
with sailboats that are unaffected by this sort of squatting in shallow
water because they don't make a wake because of the hull design.

Duh!

S.Simon


LOL ..... ROFL ..... ROFLMAO .....

Actually, your boat would probably run aground before the wake showed shallow
water, due to your keel (once again shows limited experience with only one sail
hull) and I doubt you'd know what to look for, anyway.
BTW .... motor vessels, squat, whether the water is shallow or deep..... the
squat, itself, doesn't give the warning, as much as the wake .... but that's
beyond your limited understanding, intelligence, experience, capabilities,
etc..

Shen