If you don't have a shelf, however, all you have
holding the sail in place is one fitting holding the
clew.

Duh .... there are plenty of mains without either a shelf foot or a loose foot.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

We ain't talkin' about any old racing junk here.
We're talkin' cruising, man. Go away! You know
nothing about cruising and cruising boats. Your
boat's even less a cruiser than a racer.

S.Simon


"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ...
If you don't have a shelf, however, all you have
holding the sail in place is one fitting holding the
clew.

Duh .... there are plenty of mains without either a shelf foot or a loose foot.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

How does the bolt rope in the boom limit the trim?

Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail)
stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the
sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at
the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even
evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce
a fuller sail is the shelf expanded. Maybe your shelf-footed
sail was poorly designed?

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
A Couple of Points Loco,

Your logic leave a lot to be desired. A free footed main attachments to
the boom are the very same connections that are use with the closed
footed sail. The very same. You the slug on the leech? The Leech
cringle is attached to the outhaul car with the same pin as used for
both type sails. The same for the tack.

I've been sailing for over 50 years and I just learned something I never
realized until I seen it with my own eyes. on the free footed sail. When
turning upwind and you tighten the vang, to flatten the main. The lower
part of the sail becomes rounder. (Due to the bend in the boom) n
outhaul adjustment is necessary. Enough of an adjustment as to make it
necessary to make new mark settings for the outhaul car farther
back`than the normal position for car setting the sail to wind
condition. I've never have done that in all the years I've sailed with
the shelve. I've just never seen it.

Loco, do you just use one weight main for Racing? Do you use a lite air
main? Or a laminated main? A free footed main goes on and off at least
10 times easier and a 100 times faster. If you're stripping the boom
after racing, you really should consider the free footed mains.

I thought I had trim down pretty damn well but my new sail has been
teaching me the errors of my ways.

One of the biggest errors was that the bolt rope in the shelve is a
limiting factor to proper lower sail trim. I'm getting better sail trim
on my new sail. Enough to question the effectiveness of the shelve.

After I get a performance curve made up for this sail and if it is much
difference over the UK's, I probably will instatt a shelve and run a
performance curve on this sail; with and without. Probably into next
spring but stay tuned.

Ole Thom

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:22:18 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Yes but do you have a digitally simulated slide rule?

I do. It's called a calculator.





Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

I've been sailing for over 50 years and I just learned something I never
realized until I seen it with my own eyes. on the free footed sail. When
turning upwind and you tighten the vang, to flatten the main. The lower
part of the sail becomes rounder. (Due to the bend in the boom) n
outhaul adjustment is necessary.

Maybe I'm missing something with your post but when you turn upwind you
should be trimming hard with the mainsheet and the vang should have no effect.
I would also think if your hauling in harder with the vang than the mainsheet
that's the reason why your boom is bending which is something that shouldn't
happen.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Loco, do you just use one weight main for Racing? Do you use a lite air
main? Or a laminated main? A free footed main goes on and off at least
10 times easier and a 100 times faster. If you're stripping the boom
after racing, you really should consider the free footed mains.

I only use 1 main. The easy removal was another sailmaker loose foot pitch.
And I agree it's true but means nothing to me twice a year.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

One of the biggest errors was that the bolt rope in the shelve is a
limiting factor to proper lower sail trim. I'm getting better sail trim
on my new sail. Enough to question the effectiveness of the shelve.

I'd be willing to bet your old main just ended with a bolt rope at thefoot and
did not contain a shelf foot. With a proper shelf foot the sail trims
perfectly all the way down to the boom. Without a shelf foot the sail just
rolls into the boom.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Loco,

I'm really the wrong guy to be championing the free footed sail. I'm
only using it for the first time, the last two weeks. I have
definitively seen advantages.

So, if your main lives on the boom, you must be racing with a Dacron
Cruising Main? Is it a 7 oz Dacron?

Do you have that same dumb leech control as Neal? The line from the
outhaul car? That sure does put strain on the end slug!! A correct
set-up should bring the leech cringle to the outhaul car so that the
outhaul pressure is on the bottom (or foot) of the sail along the boom
The leech tension n a proper built sail should be controlled by proper
draw string. To reduce the length of the foot, the tension on the
outhaul car should be eased and drawn up by a draw string on the sail's
foot. This is how a good sail is trim for a baggy down wind shape. It is
kept opened by the sheet and vang. This is how I was taught and I do
believe it is correct.

Now the boltrope will only let you reduce foot length of the sail in a
shelf to the relaxed condition of the boltrope. The sown sail and rope
cannot be compressed. ( A limiting factor) To draw the length of the
foot of the sail, The outhaul must be moved back, stretching the bolt
rope (Another limiting factor in trim) With a free footed sail the
outhaul car is free to move along the boom with no limiting force acting
on it horizontally. The wrinkles in the bottom of the sail can be
controlled without any force, just position of the outhaul and draw
string

Cripes, isn't there anyone out there that has used a free footed sail
longer than two week. TALK TO US!!!

Ole Thom

Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail)
stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the
sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at
the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even
evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce
a fuller sail is the shelf expanded.

Hey Simple, I keep telling you that you know nothing about boats. The main in
that photo does not have a shelf foot.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

So, if your main lives on the boom, you must be racing with a Dacron
Cruising Main? Is it a 7 oz Dacron?

I'm presently using a Ulman tri radial main that is made out of the new
Dimension square weave Dacron cloth.
If you want to see it.

http://journals.aol.com/sailloco/SAILLOCOSPage/


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport