Why ..... to get to where they're going .....backwards.

Sheesh, what a simpleton .... the straight answer is there could be many
reasons, but you don't have enough experience to think of any.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
And, praytell otnmbrd, why would any self-respecting
motor sailer captain like Fulmoron or First Mate like
Lady Sailor want to back in open water?

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

Can be applied in a modified version. Tied up port side too, hold "fwd
after spring", quick kick ahead to swing stern out, then go astern, but
we were, or at least I was talking about an open water situation while
trying to back. ..... can also be used when going down a narrow slip,
where you need to stop and still end up heading in the same direction.

DSK wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:


There are a whole bunch of different factors involved with each type
boat, operator, and conditions (such as the folding prop issue) that
will have to be factored in, which makes trying to recommend a positive
solution to any one boat, difficult, in this medium.


Exactly. That's part of the fun!


One reason I don't like using too much power/speed astern is the strain
on steering gear ( be it tiller or pedestal) when trying to use the rudder.


I hope that is'nt a problem for us, our rudder is a 1/4" SS plate on a 1 1/2" dia shaft
with monsterous bearings & hydraulic steering. Some boats, especially as the tonnage get
larger, can be a problem you're right. A busted rudder can ruin the whole day!

Much depends on the system:
Tiller - can become a total "bear" when astern
Wire, via Sheaves to the wheel - parted wire, runaway wheel which shears
stops.
Hydraulic - in and of itself can put some heavy strain on gear, causing
cracked mounts, post.
ETC.
Each boat will have to show it's own weaknesses .... they all have some.



Something else to think about, which I frequently use (in the past on
sail and nowadays on power). If I have a right hand prop and want to
back in a particular direction, I will frequently start with a kick
ahead and hard left rudder to get the boat swinging to port, then
midships the rudder and start astern (timing is everything) and let the
prop walk stop the port hand swing of the bow while getting up sternway
so that the rudder can take over when I stop the engine so that I'm
going in the direction I want (this can be repeated).


I've read about this in the texts, but haven't gotten the hang of it in practice. We were
doing practice maneuvers for a while but have fallen out of the habit... need to get back
into it.

It's a "basic" maneuver, but it's usefulness depends a good deal on the
boat, operator and conditions .... i.e., it can't always be used and
needs to be played with.


Also, play close attention to the wind ..... a high percentage of boats
want to back into the wind (and current) and will sometimes do this over
prop walk, ....something else you can use to your advantage.


Another thing tha varies highly from boat to boat. Our tug has a big keel & is quite heavy
for the amount of windage, she doesn't seem to swing at all and drifts very little.
Although I have noticed that it is more difficult to bring the bow into the wind from a
standing start, probably another area to practice.

Check this in various wind speeds and currents ..... the results will
vary, by boat as you say (figure 15K of wind equals 1/2k of current @).
My experience is that I always will bring the stern through the wind,
rather than the bow ..... generally easier.

One big difference between driving a sailboat and driving a powerboat is the pivot point,
and the helmsmans point of view. A sailboat pivots around her CLR, approx the midpoint of
the keel foil, usually about 1/2 way the length of the waterline. Powerboats pivot much
further forward. And on our boat (like many) the helm is much further forward than on a
sailboat. So you have to beware of swinging the stern into things.... we haven't done that,
but it would be an easy mistake.

G if you have a forward steering station, watch your compass ( knowing
the heading you are on) ....it tells you where your stern is, to some
degree ( not swing clearance)

In all, it's a different kind of fun than sailing, but still very enjoyable.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I haven't found an aspect of boating yet that I don't enjoy to some
degree...... welllll....I never liked sanitary tank cleaning detail......

otn

So a Hinkley Sou'wester is not a sailboat? 50 hp at 42 feet.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
news

"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
...
So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.


A Cabo Rico 38' is, indeed, a motor boat with sails unless someone
had one commissioned without motor. Any sailboat that has a built in
motor with more than one horsepower for each meter of length is a
motorsailer at best.

What's a Cabo Rico 38 have? About 40-50 horsepower? To be
a sailboat it would have to have no more than 12 horsepower.

S.Simon

Dear Ms. Carroll

You're beginning to catch on, Mam! Of course, any boat
that has more than one horsepower for every foot of length
in NOT a sailboat. It is simply a motor boat with spars.
The very best it can be called is a "motor sailer."

Think of how absurd the very idea of 50 horsepower in any
42-foot motor boat with masts really is? It only takes 20 horses
to drive that particular Hinckley to hull speed. So, why all the
extra power and weight? The answer is simple. It's because
the boat is designed to motor and charge huge battery banks
to run all manner of unnecessary crud that really has no business
aboard a sailboat. Nobody but rich, ignorant snobs own Hinckley's
anyway. Hinckleys are an example of a boat that is way way way
overpriced for what you get. Only rich ignorant snobs spend
so much money on a name. These same people wear Rolex
Oysters not because they keep any better time than a cheap
Timex but because they think it gives them status.

Well, the bottom line is their boat and wrist watch are only owned
so they can feel good about themselves. For the most part these
people are no different than Bobsprit except they have money to
burn. They think brand names mean everything and since they can
buy pretty much whatever they want they buy things they think
will make people the most envious. Little do they realize real
sailors laugh at them and their ignorance. Real sailors know what
these pathetic individuals are all about. We laugh when we see
them motoring their so-called sailboats around expecting folks
to ooh and aah!

Would that they were more honest and just bought a motor boat
in the first place.

S.Simon - has more common sense than most people


"The Carrolls" wrote in message .. .
So a Hinkley Sou'wester is not a sailboat? 50 hp at 42 feet.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
news

"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
...
So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.


A Cabo Rico 38' is, indeed, a motor boat with sails unless someone
had one commissioned without motor. Any sailboat that has a built in
motor with more than one horsepower for each meter of length is a
motorsailer at best.

What's a Cabo Rico 38 have? About 40-50 horsepower? To be
a sailboat it would have to have no more than 12 horsepower.

S.Simon

What an absurd and laughable point of view, that a Hinkley Sou'wester is not
a sailboat. You need to look into their history and build specifications.
Try punching through a tall sea at an inlet with only 15 or 20 hp available.
To sail through all is not always a good prudent decision these days, even
Larry Pardee used a motor on occasion. Cabo Rico and Hinkley are two of the
best sailboats made, expensive they are, but we are not talking cost. You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Dear Ms. Carroll

You're beginning to catch on, Mam! Of course, any boat
that has more than one horsepower for every foot of length
in NOT a sailboat. It is simply a motor boat with spars.
The very best it can be called is a "motor sailer."

Think of how absurd the very idea of 50 horsepower in any
42-foot motor boat with masts really is? It only takes 20 horses
to drive that particular Hinckley to hull speed. So, why all the
extra power and weight? The answer is simple. It's because
the boat is designed to motor and charge huge battery banks
to run all manner of unnecessary crud that really has no business
aboard a sailboat. Nobody but rich, ignorant snobs own Hinckley's
anyway. Hinckleys are an example of a boat that is way way way
overpriced for what you get. Only rich ignorant snobs spend
so much money on a name. These same people wear Rolex
Oysters not because they keep any better time than a cheap
Timex but because they think it gives them status.

Well, the bottom line is their boat and wrist watch are only owned
so they can feel good about themselves. For the most part these
people are no different than Bobsprit except they have money to
burn. They think brand names mean everything and since they can
buy pretty much whatever they want they buy things they think
will make people the most envious. Little do they realize real
sailors laugh at them and their ignorance. Real sailors know what
these pathetic individuals are all about. We laugh when we see
them motoring their so-called sailboats around expecting folks
to ooh and aah!

Would that they were more honest and just bought a motor boat
in the first place.

S.Simon - has more common sense than most people


"The Carrolls" wrote in message
.. .
So a Hinkley Sou'wester is not a sailboat? 50 hp at 42 feet.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
news

"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
...
So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.


A Cabo Rico 38' is, indeed, a motor boat with sails unless someone
had one commissioned without motor. Any sailboat that has a built in
motor with more than one horsepower for each meter of length is a
motorsailer at best.

What's a Cabo Rico 38 have? About 40-50 horsepower? To be
a sailboat it would have to have no more than 12 horsepower.

S.Simon

You say that like it's a bad thing.

SV

"The Carrolls" wrote
You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.

I challenged Booby to a race many times but he's ALWAYS
chickened out. I'll make you the same challenge. I'll race you starting
at Key Largo to Marsh Harbor in the Abacos from there to Habana
and from Habana to Key West. Said race to commence sometime
in December of this year. Loser buys the winner's beer for five years.
I bet you, like your sniveling, pretend-to-sail, little, butt buddy Booby,
will also chicken out.

S.Simon - my 27-footer will beat yours in a long distance race.


wrote in message ...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:41:43 GMT, "The Carrolls" wrote:

What an absurd and laughable point of view, that a Hinkley Sou'wester is not
a sailboat. You need to look into their history and build specifications.
Try punching through a tall sea at an inlet with only 15 or 20 hp available.
To sail through all is not always a good prudent decision these days, even
Larry Pardee used a motor on occasion. Cabo Rico and Hinkley are two of the
best sailboats made, expensive they are, but we are not talking cost. You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.

Simon is not an actual sailor. He's a pimply faced kid who read some books.

BB

How about from the Toledo Light to the North Tower of Big Mac via the
Milwaukee harbor light. I will even give you a 4 hour head start. Say
July 4 2004 at 6am. I drink Mack and Jacks African amber, it aint
cheap nor is it easy to get.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
I challenged Booby to a race many times but he's ALWAYS
chickened out. I'll make you the same challenge. I'll race you starting
at Key Largo to Marsh Harbor in the Abacos from there to Habana
and from Habana to Key West. Said race to commence sometime
in December of this year. Loser buys the winner's beer for five years.
I bet you, like your sniveling, pretend-to-sail, little, butt buddy Booby,
will also chicken out.

S.Simon - my 27-footer will beat yours in a long distance race.


wrote in message ...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:41:43 GMT, "The Carrolls" wrote:

What an absurd and laughable point of view, that a Hinkley Sou'wester is not
a sailboat. You need to look into their history and build specifications.
Try punching through a tall sea at an inlet with only 15 or 20 hp available.
To sail through all is not always a good prudent decision these days, even
Larry Pardee used a motor on occasion. Cabo Rico and Hinkley are two of the
best sailboats made, expensive they are, but we are not talking cost. You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.

Simon is not an actual sailor. He's a pimply faced kid who read some books.

BB

$13 for 5l. Sound like the sort of beer girls use to wash hair.
Expensive? Bwhahahhahahahahahahaha

Cheers MC



Wes Carroll wrote:

How about from the Toledo Light to the North Tower of Big Mac via the
Milwaukee harbor light. I will even give you a 4 hour head start. Say
July 4 2004 at 6am. I drink Mack and Jacks African amber, it aint
cheap nor is it easy to get.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...

I challenged Booby to a race many times but he's ALWAYS
chickened out. I'll make you the same challenge. I'll race you starting
at Key Largo to Marsh Harbor in the Abacos from there to Habana
and from Habana to Key West. Said race to commence sometime
in December of this year. Loser buys the winner's beer for five years.
I bet you, like your sniveling, pretend-to-sail, little, butt buddy Booby,
will also chicken out.

S.Simon - my 27-footer will beat yours in a long distance race.


wrote in message ...

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:41:43 GMT, "The Carrolls" wrote:


What an absurd and laughable point of view, that a Hinkley Sou'wester is not
a sailboat. You need to look into their history and build specifications.
Try punching through a tall sea at an inlet with only 15 or 20 hp available.
To sail through all is not always a good prudent decision these days, even
Larry Pardee used a motor on occasion. Cabo Rico and Hinkley are two of the
best sailboats made, expensive they are, but we are not talking cost. You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.

Simon is not an actual sailor. He's a pimply faced kid who read some books.

BB

Actually it is not a bad thing, I greatly admire those with the
patience to own and care for a wooden boat. But there is a lot to be
said about new materials and equipment.
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message news:bko9ft$43mp8$1@ID-
154502.news.uni-berlin.de...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

SV

"The Carrolls" wrote
You
show an attitude that should be sailing a wooden boat and using canvas
sails.