Tink says:
===========
Ken, Wilf, is talking about extending the dowel out 28", see what
loading the dowel breaks under now. This will prevent Wilf from falling
off his workbench, and you seemed more inclined to do this sort of
stuff! I mean testing, not falling off your bench! TnT
==============

I'm with you on this Tink -- as far as a 275 pound guy is concerned.
The question is, as you point out, what happens when the dowel is
extended out 28" and approx 50 pounds is placed essentially at the 14"
mark (although, what with twisting and turning, the full 50 pounds
could, momentarily anyway, be way out there at the 28" mark)?

Tink, you mentioned that you're an electrician: do you think 50 pounds
could bend the larger diameter conduit?

Cheers,
Wilf

BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
===========
Ken, Wilf, is talking about extending the dowel out 28", see what
loading the dowel breaks under now. This will prevent Wilf from
falling
off his workbench, and you seemed more inclined to do this sort of
stuff! I mean testing, not falling off your bench! TnT
==============

I'm with you on this Tink -- as far as a 275 pound guy is concerned.
The question is, as you point out, what happens when the dowel is
extended out 28" and approx 50 pounds is placed essentially at the
14"
mark (although, what with twisting and turning, the full 50 pounds
could, momentarily anyway, be way out there at the 28" mark)?

Tink, you mentioned that you're an electrician: do you think 50
pounds
could bend the larger diameter conduit?

Cheers,
Wilf

Wilf, you say you are with me on this, do mean the testing, or falling
off the workbench?

I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all the
time with bending tools up to 1". Beyond that we have hydralic benders.
This is mainly to provide a standard radius that the wire can be pulled
through inside. Otherwise if you were to take the conduit, and bend it
over a sharp edge, as soon as the radius of the tube is broken, the
tube will easily collapse. There is a certain structural strength to
the tube, but once it is compromised, the tube material is pretty soft
and malleable.

One person that you might check with, is Michael Daly. Recently I saw
him post, that he is a structural engineer. He could probably give some
good suggestions on real data base. I mostly figure stuff off the seat
of my pants, hence the Tinker. My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see on the
Red/Green Show.

I guess one thing I might ask you though, is how did you come up with
the 28" number? Also is your rack a commercial unit, or is it standard
Ford issue on Aerostar?

As you load the kayak, can you come in at a larger angle to get the bow
more up on the vehicle to start. That way the extension would not need
to be so long. You would then be standing further out from the vehicle
as you lift the stern, lift it higher so that the front does not get
pivoted off the front rack, and swing the stern up on the rear rack.

Also did you understand about the safety line, which should help keep
the bow in place. TnT

Tinkerntom wrote:
BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
===========
Ken, Wilf, is talking about extending the dowel out 28", see what
loading the dowel breaks under now. This will prevent Wilf from
falling
off his workbench, and you seemed more inclined to do this sort of
stuff! I mean testing, not falling off your bench! TnT
==============

I'm with you on this Tink -- as far as a 275 pound guy is
concerned.
The question is, as you point out, what happens when the dowel is
extended out 28" and approx 50 pounds is placed essentially at the
14"
mark (although, what with twisting and turning, the full 50 pounds
could, momentarily anyway, be way out there at the 28" mark)?

Tink, you mentioned that you're an electrician: do you think 50
pounds
could bend the larger diameter conduit?

Cheers,
Wilf

Wilf, you say you are with me on this, do mean the testing, or
falling
off the workbench?

I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all
the
time with bending tools up to 1". Beyond that we have hydralic
benders.
This is mainly to provide a standard radius that the wire can be
pulled
through inside. Otherwise if you were to take the conduit, and bend
it
over a sharp edge, as soon as the radius of the tube is broken, the
tube will easily collapse. There is a certain structural strength to
the tube, but once it is compromised, the tube material is pretty
soft
and malleable.

One person that you might check with, is Michael Daly. Recently I saw
him post, that he is a structural engineer. He could probably give
some
good suggestions on real data base. I mostly figure stuff off the
seat
of my pants, hence the Tinker. My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually
cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see on
the
Red/Green Show.

I guess one thing I might ask you though, is how did you come up with
the 28" number? Also is your rack a commercial unit, or is it
standard
Ford issue on Aerostar?

As you load the kayak, can you come in at a larger angle to get the
bow
more up on the vehicle to start. That way the extension would not
need
to be so long. You would then be standing further out from the
vehicle
as you lift the stern, lift it higher so that the front does not get
pivoted off the front rack, and swing the stern up on the rear rack.

Also did you understand about the safety line, which should help keep
the bow in place. TnT

Sorry Wilf, I answered your second post before I saw the first, will
reread and get back to you later, TnT

Tink says:
=============
I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all the
time with bending tools up to 1".
=================

Right, but even to bend 1" pipe, surely you use a "bending device" (my
family would disown me for that... both father and brother are
electricians and I spent a few summers as an electrician's helper, but
am a complete nerd about practical matters... so, I don't recall what
that fulcrum thingy is called). Anyway, I'm guessing that the larger
diameter pipes cannot be bent, readily, without mechanical assistance.
Hence my thought that, if a human can't readily bend it, a 100 pound
kayak is not likely to bend it either (even at 50 pounds times, let's
say, 30 inches). But, as I say, I'm not the electrician, I'm the geek.

Tink says:
================
My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see on the
Red/Green Show.
===========

And you likely thought ALL Canadians were like Red Green, eh? GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf

BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
=============
I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all
the
time with bending tools up to 1".
=================

Right, but even to bend 1" pipe, surely you use a "bending device"
(my
family would disown me for that... both father and brother are
electricians and I spent a few summers as an electrician's helper,
but
am a complete nerd about practical matters... so, I don't recall what
that fulcrum thingy is called). Anyway, I'm guessing that the larger
diameter pipes cannot be bent, readily, without mechanical
assistance.
Hence my thought that, if a human can't readily bend it, a 100 pound
kayak is not likely to bend it either (even at 50 pounds times, let's
say, 30 inches). But, as I say, I'm not the electrician, I'm the
geek.

Tink says:
================
My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually
cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see on
the
Red/Green Show.
===========

And you likely thought ALL Canadians were like Red Green, eh? GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf

And all US are like Archie!

I would suggest that you take a piece of pipe, extend it out the
desired distance from edge of workbench, attach stationary end, and
then start loading the extended end with weights to see when it bends.

I know that if there was a piece of conduit sticking out from the side
of a building, 10 stories up, I would not trust it to step out on it
with even a portion of my weight. Now obviously this is not the same,
but you could still get hurt if the extension collapsed and you caught
the full weight of the boat.

Your 1x4 would probably not be strong enough, but again you can test
it.


TnT