Ah, the old pfd debate! I'm afraid that I have to disagree with all the rest
of you. Pfd's cannot be compared to automobile seatbelts or motorcycle helmets.
Both the seatbelts and motorcycle helmets have been proven to reduce the
severity of injuries and save lives. There is no such evidence regarding pfd's
in sea kayaks (important point here, I am talking about sea kayaking).
The Coast Guard's statistics simply reflect the percentages of people who
participate in recreational boating that do and do not wear lifejackets. If you
look at it from a different perspective, like whitewater boating statistics,
you will see that the overwhelming majority of whitewater boating fatalities
were in fact wearing pfd's! Are we then to assume that when participating in
whitewater boating one will be safer without a pfd on? I mean, just look at the
statistics! Very few whitewater fatalities were found without a pfd on! Of
course not! Most people who do whitewater boating always wear a pfd, so it is
only natural that the majority of fatalities associated with that activity will
have on pfd's.
I'll bet that every person reading this has gone out boating, fishing,
sightseeing, whatever, any number of times while not wearing a life jacket. The
simple fact of the matter is that probably at least 85% of those people who
enjoy recreational boating are not wearing a lifejacket. So once again it is
only natural that the fatalities should reflect that. What I find much more
interesting is that 15% of the fatalities were in fact wearing their
lifejackets and they died anyway.
If you look a little deeper into the issue then it becomes obvious that
experience, or rather lack thereof, plays a much greater roll in the fatalities
then does equipment. The overwhelming majority of what are classified as sea
kayaking fatalities are associated with people who have very little, if any at
all, training or experience. These are precisely the kinds of people who will
be inclined to paddle a rec boat and attempt to stand up in it, or paddle solo
into hazardous conditions. These people are an accident looking for a place to
happen and the fact that they finally got their wish while in a sea kayak is
more coincident then any statement about the dangers of the sport. While these
are the people who would most benefit from wearing a pfd, they are also,
unfortunately, the one's who are least likely to do so.
As for making the wearing of a pfd in a sea kayak a law --- I really hope
not. If you really want to save lives then I believe mandatory instruction and
certification would probably be much more effective, even though I am against
that as well. When reviewing the sea kayaking related fatalities, once you
discard the novices, then you see that what's left is a pretty even split
between those who are found with their pfd's on, and those who are found to be
not wearing one. So like I said at the beginning, I can see no actual evidence
to suggest that pfd's are particularly effective as a safety device in your
typical sea kayaking scenario. I am not trying to say that they do not have
their place, but I see them to be no more or less important then any other
piece of rescue and safety gear. Any piece of safety and rescue gear can save a
life in the right scenario. But I believe it should be left up to the
individual to choose how and when to apply it.

Scott
So.Cal.

Mike,

Good analysis. Thank you for this data. I pretty much agree with your
conclusions. The bottom line is that the ones NOT wearing PFDs are
almost universally yahoos or amateurs.

We don't need more government intrusion in our lives. A better
approach is that we need to try to educate people that wearing a PFD
(at least on most any moderate whitewater) is considered mandatory. I
have been successful in many cases with going up to people and
reminding them that the river is a dangerous place and that they
should be wearing their life vests. Most of them thank me.

Randy

When I was a member of a team instructing in Mountain Walking (In the UK
) we spent a great deal of time stressing the safety aspect. The Team
Leader always gave a short address at the begining - He always started
with the same phrase - Any Fool Can Be Carried Off A Mountain - Same
applies to PFDs - Any Body Can Be Recovered.
Personally - When I coach you abide by my rules - If I wear one then so
do
you. Let someone else tell their family that they will not be coming
home. Unless it's in a wooden box. I agree life is often over regulated
but common sense or 'Sods Law' tells you that **** Happens!

Frank Healy



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Another article worth reading:
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/04/full_by_0304.pdf
This appears to be another myth...

A tough, tough issue.
Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts. I lost
a friend, burned alive in a car while hanging upside down from his
seat belt which he could not get undone. He might argue that point if
he could.
Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident. The
Bell full-face he was wearing broke his neck when he landed in the
ditch and he suffocated by the side of the road. His family doctor
made the mistake of telling this to my friend, who had given his
brother that helmet as a birthday gift. He might be inclined to argue
for choice also.
That said, I ALWYAS wear my helmet when riding, ALWAYS wear my
seatbelt when driving, and ALWAYS wear my pfd when paddling. I've seen
and heard about too many deaths that prove the rule rather than the
exception.

magoo_ns wrote:

A tough, tough issue.
Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts. I lost
a friend, burned alive in a car while hanging upside down from his
seat belt which he could not get undone. He might argue that point if
he could.

Tough break for your friend. My sympathies. He spun the wheel and ended
up in the 1% of accidents that result in fires and the tiny % of
seatbelts that won't release. If he hadn't been wearing the seatbelt he
might have been killed outright or rendered unconscious by the impact,
which in a sad way, would have been better.

Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident. The
Bell full-face he was wearing broke his neck when he landed in the
ditch and he suffocated by the side of the road. His family doctor
made the mistake of telling this to my friend, who had given his
brother that helmet as a birthday gift. He might be inclined to argue
for choice also.

The impact with the ground broke his neck, not the helmet. I haven't
seen many family doctors who are also accident scene investigation
specialists, so I'd say the old doc is just incredibly insensitive at best.

That said, I ALWYAS wear my helmet when riding, ALWAYS wear my
seatbelt when driving, and ALWAYS wear my pfd when paddling. I've seen
and heard about too many deaths that prove the rule rather than the
exception.

Me, too. Betting your life against high odds is, IMO, foolish.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts.

Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident.


Actually, what I said was,

" Pfd's cannot be compared to automobile seatbelts or motorcycle helmets. Both
the seatbelts and motorcycle helmets have been proven to reduce the severity of
injuries and save lives. There is no such evidence regarding pfd's in sea
kayaks,"

which is a far cry from claiming that "there are no arguments against
seatbelts," or motorcycle helmets.
What I AM saying is that I believe that the effectiveness of pfd's in your
typical sea kayaking scenario is greatly over stated. You may quote me on that,
but let's try to get it right this time, shall we? I no more feel that I must
ALWAYS wear my pfd then I do my helmet. Nevertheless I will wear my pfd and my
helmet when I feel it is the prudent choice. If it makes you happy to be fully
expedition equipped for a leisurely harbor paddle in warm protected water, then
knock yourself out. I for one do not feel that need.

Scott
So.Cal.

With apologies Scott, I may have responded to the wrong part of this
thread. I was actually quoting my good friend Brian who said "PFD's
are like seatbelts. There's no good argument against them".
There are indeed good arguments against compulsory seat belt, helmet
and pfd use. As I said, I don't happen to support those arguments,
but it doesn't help the issue to dismiss all arguments from the other
side.
I wear 'em, you don't. As you say, "knock yourself out."

Glenn




(Ki Ayker) wrote in message ...
Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts.

Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident.


Actually, what I said was,

" Pfd's cannot be compared to automobile seatbelts or motorcycle helmets. Both
the seatbelts and motorcycle helmets have been proven to reduce the severity of
injuries and save lives. There is no such evidence regarding pfd's in sea
kayaks,"

which is a far cry from claiming that "there are no arguments against
seatbelts," or motorcycle helmets.
What I AM saying is that I believe that the effectiveness of pfd's in your
typical sea kayaking scenario is greatly over stated. You may quote me on that,
but let's try to get it right this time, shall we? I no more feel that I must
ALWAYS wear my pfd then I do my helmet. Nevertheless I will wear my pfd and my
helmet when I feel it is the prudent choice. If it makes you happy to be fully
expedition equipped for a leisurely harbor paddle in warm protected water, then
knock yourself out. I for one do not feel that need.

Scott
So.Cal.

These were culled from the article "To Wear or Not To Wear, the PFD
Mandate Debate" in the Spring issue of Paddler Dealer, about the US
Coast Guard's consideration of a mandatory-wear requirement for boats
under 21'. The article is worth searching out, thoroughly covering the
question of the pros and cons of mandated PFD use.

BTW, Mike, I don't suppose you have any idea how I might get a copy of that
article?

Thanks,

Scott
So.Cal.

One of our local lakes takes an interesting approach. They get
donations from local businesses and such. These businesses donate
free lunches, discounts, free services, and money. They put these gift
certificates or money into 100 envelopes. One of the envelopes has
$1000 in it.

When they see a boat where all the passengers are wearing PFDs, they
go up to the boat and congratulate them and offer to let them pick an
envelope. If they are not wearing PFDs they are chastised and told
that they can qualify next time by wearing their PFDs.

It is actually pretty effective. My neighbor got to pick an envelope
when only 3 were left. The $1,000 was in one of the three but he
chose the wrong one.


Randy