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Old May 16th 08, 04:58 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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Bouler added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

snip
I never can get a licence, only when I am a member of a
"shootingclub". But I'm not so fond of guns.


In Michigan prior to maybe 8 years ago, a private citizen had to
show a legitimate need for firearm protection because of their line
of work. For example, a free lance PI (Private Investigator),
someone who works for a company that may be attacked and needs a
privately owned weapon, or similar things. They just didn't let any
yahoo carry a Dirty Harry around. But, Republican Gov. John Engler
who was a big believer in the presumed 2nd Amendment's right to
"keep and bear arms" took advantage of a friendly legislature to
push through a general leniency of the permit to buy a handgun and
a FAR more lenient law, the one I already talked about, for getting
a CCW. I make no comment on what he did, but suffice to say that we
are now in the same position as traditional gun states such as the
Far West and Old South.

So, do I interpret your brief comment to basically mean that The
Netherlands has a much stricter law to obtain a CCW license, maybe
like Michigan used to have?

Yes thats what I meant.


OK, thanks.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck"



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Old May 16th 08, 03:27 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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"HEMI-Powered" schreef in bericht
...

Do you mean "not necesarily" or "not necessary"? The former means
you disagree with my thesis while the latter means you're not
interested in talking about this anymore. Sorry, but this time I
can't follow your English.


We have a say´mng he "A small hole does a large ship sink".


Like the Titanic, right?


Well I think that was not a small hole;-)

That is possible with language too.
I simply meant I'm not interested in several story's about sue´ng
and and how things ended.
Sorry for writing a word wrong so it had a total different meaning.


I think I once said "English is a language that is hard to understand
but easy to misunderstand". The original author is believed to be
George Bernard Shaw.

The Urban legend: "Dry´ng a cat in the microwave" The cat died and
the microwavefactory is sued because it was not in the
disclamer;-)


This was a joke Jerry, Urban Ledgends never happened.


How can anyone tell? By definition, urban legends are exactly the same
as rumors - completely believable yet impossible to either prove or
disprove. My wife just bought a bottle of some liquid from the DMSO,
Inc. company which her best friend swears is an outstanding spray or
wipe on topical pain killer, yet there are NO ingredients list
whatsoever and NO suggested uses cited. Moreover, the "instructions"
explicity say "do not apply to skin, eyes, or clothing, do not inhale
or swallow or use in any way not specifically mentioned on this label.
This product is strictly a solvent and should be used as such with no
express or implied warranty as to any fitness of purpose whatsoever."

Now, I am aware of a powerful drug call DMSO, which means
DiMethylsSulfOxide, and comes in 50ml bottes by physician prescription
only, and has the only function to attempt to relieve pain caused by
bladder IC (Interstitial Cystitis). DMSO is inserted into the bladder
by a temporary urinary catheter and is held in for as long as possible
until the burning gets too much for the patient to bear. Guess how I
know this?


Maybe by expierience?

So, the DMSO, Inc. company CLEARLY knows this and has probably put
distilled water in the bottle without even a flavor or aroma in the
hopes that sufferers of anything at all might shell out six bucks for
it, and yet the company attempts to indemnify itself from any legal
liabililty for use or misuse.


A better example is this one, in my baileywick [sp?]: Ford has been
sued to the tune of billions of dollars, most of which is still in
litigation, for Ford Explorer SUV roll-over accidents once it
became apparent it was somewhat unstable and even more so when
somebody figured out that its Firestone tires were more vulnerable
to handling problems than other brands. Plaintiffs sued on the
grounds that Ford and Firestone knew of the defective handling and
tendency to roll over yet dragged their feet for serveral years
before they even tried to fix it. Here's the most outrageous one
I'm aware of that I think is still winding its way on the way to
the Supreme Court:

Some Michigan woman traveling over 85 mph on rain and rainy snow on
a limited access highway has to brake hard and change lanes
violently to avoid hitting another vehicle. The Explorer rolls over
multiple times and lands in the median strip. She is kills but NOT
by the trauma of the rollover. She was not belted and was ejected
out the driver's door window and killed when the Explorer literally
rolled OVER her. Then, after the police investigated, it was found
she was driving on a license suspended for too many speeding
violations! Wait, it gets FAR worse!

Ford damn near beat the first round lawsuit by bringing in expert
witnesses and its own MVSS certification engineers and did a
computer simulation and ejection at that speed would have been
fatal even if the vehicle had NOT rolled on top of her, but if she
HAD been fully belted with the combined lap and shoulder belts, the
forces could be proven on a proving grounds crash simulator to be
LESS than fatal. So, the plaintiff's family's attorney said that
Ford should have made the window glass strong enough to keep her in
the car!

Now it really gets ludicrous because Ford them brought in expert
witnesses and proved that even if it were technically feasible to
put strong enough glass in the door - which it is NOT - the blunt
force trauma of whacking a piece of 1" or more thick glass would
have instantly killed the woman just from a cranial injury to the
brain.

And, the jury STILL returned a verdict of guilty for Ford and
awarded something over $150 million in ordinary and punitive
damages to the woman's estate! This was over 10 years ago, I know
that Ford appealed but lost and I think has managed to tie this up
in court ever since.

Now, Ford also has several HUNDRED lawsuits still pendind, a couple
of dozen of which are so-called class-action suits involving
multiple plaintiffs and multiple injuries and deaths. Sorry to dive
off the high board on the technical crash engineering stuff but it
is the only way to explain how truly egegious this is.

So, please clarify what your sentence meaning is and how you'd like
to proceed here, if you do at all. Thanks, Bouler.

Wow what one word can do;-(
Lets stop talking about these things Jerry, they are to complicated
for me and I'm not interested enough.


GRIN Be careful of what you wish for, Bouler, you may get it (that
is, you may imply or appear to imply that you are asking a question or
making a comment and someone like me will come along and write a major
paper on the subject).

I know by now, but I did not ask for it.
BTW the Ford story proves the insane forms of su´ng.
The lady was driving very dangerous, so its simply her own fault and not
Fords, but still Ford has to pay a crazy lot of money.
Nobody in The Netherlands will sue a company for such an accident.

A small reply is enough, please don't snow me under againgrin
--
Greetings
Bouler (The Netherlands)


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Old May 17th 08, 06:27 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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Default Link Titanic disaster

Bouler added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

We have a say´mng he "A small hole does a large ship sink".


Like the Titanic, right?


Well I think that was not a small hole;-)


And, I think that you don't know how to think and I also think that you
don't know anything at all about the Titanic and can't even figure out
which way a ship moves when the rudder is turned in either forward or
astern steaming.

[snip]
Maybe by expierience?


Of course, by experience, moron! And, I have a LOT more of it than you
will ever fathom! Good word for this NG, huh? Now, how about using some
of your feeble brain cells that haven't been polluted yet by idiotic
political views and at least learn how to turn on Outhouse Expresso's
spell checker. I think I have enough of words, sentences and paragraphs
I can barely decipher, they are so badly written.

GRIN Be careful of what you wish for, Bouler, you may get it
(that is, you may imply or appear to imply that you are asking a
question or making a comment and someone like me will come along
and write a major paper on the subject).

I know by now, but I did not ask for it.
BTW the Ford story proves the insane forms of su´ng.
The lady was driving very dangerous, so its simply her own fault and
not Fords, but still Ford has to pay a crazy lot of money.
Nobody in The Netherlands will sue a company for such an accident.


Yeah, because you are too stupid. I gave you FACTUAL examples of
product liability issues, but the REAL reason that Dutch people don't
sue is that they get their balls nailed to the deck if they lose, our
morons don't.

A small reply is enough, please don't snow me under againgrin


You have yet to see an intentional snowing under, but you'll shortly
begin to see some. Now, after reading my couple of private replies and
the first very small retalliatory strikes here, maybe you'll see how
really foolish you were in attempting to take me on and apologize, else
you will see first-hand just how much brighter I really am than you.

//EOT

--
HP, aka Jerry

"You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a ****!"


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Old May 17th 08, 06:33 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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Bouler added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...


"HEMI-Powered" schreef in bericht
...
snip
I never can get a licence, only when I am a member of a
"shootingclub". But I'm not so fond of guns.


In Michigan prior to maybe 8 years ago, a private citizen had to
show a legitimate need for firearm protection because of their line
of work. For example, a free lance PI (Private Investigator),
someone who works for a company that may be attacked and needs a
privately owned weapon, or similar things. They just didn't let any
yahoo carry a Dirty Harry around. But, Republican Gov. John Engler
who was a big believer in the presumed 2nd Amendment's right to
"keep and bear arms" took advantage of a friendly legislature to
push through a general leniency of the permit to buy a handgun and
a FAR more lenient law, the one I already talked about, for getting
a CCW. I make no comment on what he did, but suffice to say that we
are now in the same position as traditional gun states such as the
Far West and Old South.

So, do I interpret your brief comment to basically mean that The
Netherlands has a much stricter law to obtain a CCW license, maybe
like Michigan used to have?

Yes thats what I meant.


If I'd realized when I made my first reply here that you have no clue
on these things, I'd not have wasted my time on a thoughtful
reply.And,another phrase for CCW is "right to carry", and I can see why
you don't - you'd be a danger to yourself and everyone around you if
you tried to use your rod.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a ****!"


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Old May 17th 08, 06:35 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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Default Link Titanic disaster

Bouler added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

Wow what one word can do;-(
Lets stop talking about these things Jerry, they are to complicated
for me and I'm not interested enough.


Single misguided words have started wars, numbnuts! I can understand when
a technical discussion is too complicated for your simple pedagogue mind,
so you're better off quitting when you're already behind.

"'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove
all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

--
HP, aka Jerry

"You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a ****!"




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Old May 17th 08, 06:47 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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"HEMI - Powered" wrote in message
...
wizofwas added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

Born and raised in Clarkston, it was a great little town back
then. And I've
also lived in E. Lansing and Grand Blanc. Now I'm in St.
Petersburg, Fla. My one year of sailboat racing, we took 1st in
class (Tartan 10) in the Port Huron to Mackinaw race.

Really?! Help out a lazy Michigander, wiz. Clarkston is north of
Lapeer or NW, I can't remember which. I think the only time I've
been there, and it isn't more than maybe 30 miles from me, is for a
couple of funerals for the father or mother of one of my employees,
and then later when HE suddenly and tragicly dropped dead a few
years back after I'd retired.


Clarkston is due west of Lake Orion, so that would be SW of
Lapeer. Basicly it's at the intersection of Dixie Hwy, M 15 and
I 75. I have to say Dixie Hwy, because I think they changed the
number from US 10 to US 24, but I'm not susre, it's been a long
time since I've been there.


I must've blew right past this earlier today, wiz. Wow! I must have my
compass next to a magnet or something, as I thought Clarkston was the
other way or maybe I'm mixed up with the funeral home a little south of
downtown that I talked about earlier. Hmmm. Gotta broom the cobwebs out
of the old brain, methinketh! Now that I cogitate a little more, yes, I
get off I-75 at the Lapeer Road exit right by the Palace of Auburn
Hills where the Detroit Pistons play basketball but I keep going north
to some Michigan 2-lane highway. No, I must still be mixed up, think
I'll find a Michigan map and get myself turned around.


Clarkston, think of Pine Knob, I do hope that you know where Pine
Knob is. I can remember going to a game at the Palace and the line
on 75 was real long. I saw that and just bypassed it and took the
back way in. Used to do the same thing with the "bag" (Silverdome)
And I forgot to say that I also lived in Lake Orion just off of Lapeer
Rd. (M24) Never got to Lapeer very much, Oxford is as far north
as I usually got. But Ihave traveled the length of it going up to the
thumb.

William Beaumont Hospital has a satellite medical building just south
of Lapeer, and just north of the Chrysler marshalling yard where I get
my company lease cars. I see my urologist out there. It is a 25 minute
rule out there and more than 2 gallons of gas but is FAR easier than
fighting the parking deck at Troy Beaumont which is only 6 miles from
my house. So, I trade some money and time for the convenience of
parking right by the door and only a short walk down the hall. In the
end, I actually SAVE time. And, Beaumont has full X-ray, CT, and MRI
services so I use them also.


I've traveled by "Billy B" in Troy more times than I can count.

Now, would you at all care to tell me what "wizofwas" means? I'd take a
wild stab at something like "wizard of was something or the other".
That at all close?


That's it, I really got it from a cartoon on a customers site one time.
They had a cartoon of a wizard waving a wand at a computer main-
frame and the caption was "I don't know, he's from CV." And
beside the wizard was written in "Eddie? Charlie?". I asked the
customer and yes, it was a complement. I was one of the best
at fixing that old equipment. I turned down a job as regional
tech support in Chitown because I didn't want to move there
and I knew that I'd be spending most of my time on the road.
I also turned down a job as national tech support because I
didn't want to take the pay cut. IIRC it would have been about
$10k a year and the cost of living is much greater in Boston
than it is in Detroit.

Also, would you care to go off-line and maybe get to know each other
via E-mail. I'd really like that as you and I can compare notes like
I've just started doing with Kingfisher. I'm also enjoying the Hell
outta talking to Bouler. If yes, do I un-munge your E-mail addy by just
taking out the "nospam"?


Yes, that's how you do it. and if you want to E-mail, go ahead.

wizofwas


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Old May 17th 08, 07:18 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
wizofwas added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...


"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
wizofwas added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

[snip]

I love it here. With the price of gas the way it is, I can get
to anywhere I want by bicycle with no problems. In fact, I
haven't driven a car since Christmas. St. Pete is getting real
"biker" friendly more and more each year with new bicycle paths
being added to the streets every year and even putting up bicycle
racks in more areas.

I'm not quite fond enough to move to Florida, but I do like it. I
don't much like the cost of living nor them dang himmicanes that
Kingfisher prefers I not mention. I think he views them as the "H"
word. grin


Miami area and south, and the panhandle are the worse places to
live in Fla. if you worry about the Herricanes (or Himicanes,
depending on the gender of the cane :-)). And the safest place is
in the Jacksonville area. But at least we get ample warning when
they are coming now. I've been here over 15 years now and have only
had close calls with them. But you are right, it's not if you're
going to get hit by one, just when.

Louisiana and Missippippi got the same warning for Katrina, at least a
couple of days before landfall, but the damage, destruction, and loss
of life was vastly different for a variety of reasons, but principly
from what I know due to much of New Orleans being below the wind surge
flood level behind levees that failed and 100 or so miles east wasn't,
plus the Mayor of NO and the Gov. of Louisiana sat on their collective
duffs and so did FEMA. Now, Florida has none of these problems, AFAIK,
you'd obviously be a better judge of this than me, but if ANY coastal
area or even 100 miles or more inland is going to get a direct hit by a
100 year wind, rain, and flood there just plain ain't no time to flee,
nor any place to go anyway. So, because farming, ranching,
manufacturing, and many, many industries are very profitable in
hurricane belts and people all must live someplace, I imagine they just
play the probabilities.


If you think for one minute that given a 24 hour notice that anybody
can't drive out of a hurricanes path, then you are dead wrong. I'd
say a 12 hour notice, but then you'd have a ton of traffic to deal with
and might not be able to get out of the way. And yes, we watch the
hurricanes forming off of Africa and keep watching them all summer
and fall till they die. We really don't know what they are going to do
or go. New Orleans was/is a disaster just wating to happen. The
lazy idiots there just wanted the Fed to bail them out and do every-
thing for them. They didn't want to take responsiblity for saving
themselves. And yes that includes the Mayor and the Governer.
Remember tht it IS the governments job to inform you when and
where a hurricane is going to hit. It is NOT the governments job
to save your sorry ass if you decide to stay.

I remember seeing a 15 or so high pole along the Grand Strand near
Myrtle beach, wondered what it was and pulled over to see. Perched on
top was a sign that read "100 year flood level". 15 feet above the
road? Don't think anyone is gonna drive out from there!


If you wait till the storm hits, you're right, but who said that you can't
leave before the storm hits?

I know of no place on earth, certainly not wherever the earthquake hit
in China, where weather and geological disasters aren't a threat to
life and property, it is just a risk we must bear.


Just depends on what you want to put up with. I'd much rather
deal with the hurricanes here than the tornadoes up there.
I still remember the damage done to Flint in the 50's and
Saginaw/Bay City in the 60's by tornadoes. And they strike
without warning.

wizofwas


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Old May 17th 08, 07:59 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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Default where Clarkston is, meaning of "wiz", and E-mailing

wizofwas added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

Clarkston, think of Pine Knob, I do hope that you know where Pine
Knob is. I can remember going to a game at the Palace and the line
on 75 was real long. I saw that and just bypassed it and took the
back way in. Used to do the same thing with the "bag" (Silverdome)
And I forgot to say that I also lived in Lake Orion just off of
Lapeer Rd. (M24) Never got to Lapeer very much, Oxford is as far
north as I usually got. But Ihave traveled the length of it going
up to the thumb.


OK, now I'm with you, wiz. Pine Knob is a fair piece NORTH of me. Yes,
Lapeer and Lake Orion both lie (lay?) along Lapeer Road, as does the
Palace, but the Silverdome, former home of the Detroit Lions football
team is on Opdyke Boulevard at Featherstone Road, where FREC (Chrysler
Featherstone Road Office Complex where the SRT team and Team Viper are)
and the Chrysler Technology Center and Headquarters Tower Complex both
east of the 'Dome. And, the Walter P. Chrylser Museum is at SE corner
of CTC's 512+ acre grounds.

I've traveled by "Billy B" in Troy more times than I can count.


Me, two, and I spent a very unpleasant to days as an inpatient the
latter part of January this year after I damn near killed myself with
severe malnutrion and Tylenol poisoning, but I'm reasonably healthy
again now (although I have a LOT of work ahead of me to regain my
strength and endurance).

Now, would you at all care to tell me what "wizofwas" means? I'd
take a wild stab at something like "wizard of was something or the
other". That at all close?


That's it, I really got it from a cartoon on a customers site one
time


So, it is "Wizard of Was", whatever "Was" is?

.. They had a cartoon of a wizard waving a wand at a computer
main- frame


Ah, yes, mainframes. Haven't heard that term in awhile!

and the caption was "I don't know, he's from CV." And
beside the wizard was written in "Eddie? Charlie?". I asked the
customer and yes, it was a complement. I was one of the best
at fixing that old equipment. I turned down a job as regional
tech support in Chitown because I didn't want to move there
and I knew that I'd be spending most of my time on the road.
I also turned down a job as national tech support because I
didn't want to take the pay cut. IIRC it would have been about
$10k a year and the cost of living is much greater in Boston
than it is in Detroit.


Sounds like you're a pretty good techie, like my nephew. I can hold my
own on the SW side but don't know much and don't much like HW. However,
after about 1995 or so, I stopped being a PC hobbyist and now just use
them to do useful work. So, I can do OK to keep the thing running but
can't build one or diagnose and fix serious problems. It isn't that I'm
not smart enough, I just ran out of time and interest to stay current,
and had bigger fish to fry.

Also, would you care to go off-line and maybe get to know each
other via E-mail. I'd really like that as you and I can compare
notes like I've just started doing with Kingfisher. I'm also
enjoying the Hell outta talking to Bouler. If yes, do I un-munge
your E-mail addy by just taking out the "nospam"?


Yes, that's how you do it. and if you want to E-mail, go ahead.


OK, thanks for the go ahead. If you want to go first, also please to to
he

1 t h r o w a w a y @ c o m c a s t.n e t. I stopped putting even a
munged addy into my headers or sig some time back for the same reason
you've at least been wise enough to munge your header.

Thanks, Wiz!

--
HP, aka Jerry
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Old May 17th 08, 08:13 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.tall-ships
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wizofwas added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

Louisiana and Missippippi got the same warning for Katrina, at
least a couple of days before landfall, but the damage,
destruction, and loss of life was vastly different for a variety of
reasons, but principly from what I know due to much of New Orleans
being below the wind surge flood level behind levees that failed
and 100 or so miles east wasn't, plus the Mayor of NO and the Gov.
of Louisiana sat on their collective duffs and so did FEMA. Now,
Florida has none of these problems, AFAIK, you'd obviously be a
better judge of this than me, but if ANY coastal area or even 100
miles or more inland is going to get a direct hit by a 100 year
wind, rain, and flood there just plain ain't no time to flee, nor
any place to go anyway. So, because farming, ranching,
manufacturing, and many, many industries are very profitable in
hurricane belts and people all must live someplace, I imagine they
just play the probabilities.


If you think for one minute that given a 24 hour notice that anybody
can't drive out of a hurricanes path, then you are dead wrong. I'd
say a 12 hour notice, but then you'd have a ton of traffic to deal
with and might not be able to get out of the way. And yes, we watch
the hurricanes forming off of Africa and keep watching them all
summer and fall till they die. We really don't know what they are
going to do or go. New Orleans was/is a disaster just wating to
happen. The lazy idiots there just wanted the Fed to bail them out
and do every- thing for them. They didn't want to take
responsiblity for saving themselves. And yes that includes the
Mayor and the Governer. Remember tht it IS the governments job to
inform you when and where a hurricane is going to hit. It is NOT
the governments job to save your sorry ass if you decide to stay.


I KNOW an entire state of city's population cannot flee that quickly
even if they have the means, which over half of NO residents did not.
My point though, was that the governors of the several Gulf states and
mayors of the major coastal cities varied widely in their decisions on
how to prepare and how to recover from the aftermath.

Gov. Blanco of Lousiana and Mayor Ray Nagen of New Orleans also
blundered fatally some years prior to Katrina, back to 1999-2000 and
again in 2002-2003 when the Army's Corps of Engineers proposed
rebuilding the NO levees to support 80% of a 100 year flood and storm
surge and had a more expensive alternative that upped the percentage
even more. It was in the $2.2B range, which the Army had secured
Federal budged for all but about $250-300 million more or less that
would be shared 80/20 by the state and city but Blanco and Nagen balked
and refused to pony up their share. Pretty damn dumb, if you ask me,
and what some people say "penny wise but dollar foolish" in reverse.

That said, it might STILL have been possible to prevent the carnage,
$20+ billion damages, and both suffering and illness today IF president
Bush and first Tom Ridge and later Michael Chertoff of DHS would've
popped for entire levee rebuilding by realizing that it would be only
about 1/10 as expensive as what FEMA had to attempt to do. I think that
is both arrogant and tragic.

There is still confusion and finger pointing as to exactly when the
Hurricane Warning Service of the Federal government actually told Nagen
and Blanco - and the other states - more clearly what the danger was
and the probability of a direct hit vs a glancing blow so that more
than 24 hours - maybe as many as 72 or more - could have been
available. Even more tragic is that over 60 percent of the Louisiana
National Guard which could have immediately swung into action to help
the recovery, were deployed to Iraq and despite Gov. Blancos many pleas
to President Bush, he adamently refused to send her Gaurd home and
deploy other state's units.

I remember seeing a 15 or so high pole along the Grand Strand near
Myrtle beach, wondered what it was and pulled over to see. Perched
on top was a sign that read "100 year flood level". 15 feet above
the road? Don't think anyone is gonna drive out from there!


If you wait till the storm hits, you're right, but who said that you
can't leave before the storm hits?


Nobody, but lots of folks don't recognize the true danger and/or do not
have the wherewithall to move away expediciously or at all.

I know of no place on earth, certainly not wherever the earthquake
hit in China, where weather and geological disasters aren't a
threat to life and property, it is just a risk we must bear.


Just depends on what you want to put up with. I'd much rather
deal with the hurricanes here than the tornadoes up there.
I still remember the damage done to Flint in the 50's and
Saginaw/Bay City in the 60's by tornadoes. And they strike
without warning.

Tornadoes have been in the news in the last couple of years because of
the tragedies and devastation in the several Midwestern twisters. But,
besides long ago strengthening their building codes and establishing
better early warning systems, other states such as my Michigan haven't
had a major tornado in a LONG time. That's why I like it where I am.
Now if your a Yupper or live someplace like Grand Rapids, then you're
going to get hit much harder with lakes-effects rain and snow storms to
the point of blizzards so severe that entire cities shut down for long
periods are all too common. Again, though, one needs to put some
perspective on this. People live where they do because they like it
there, and often have deep family roots and also long-time employment,
so it can be tough.

Agree at all to my counter assertions? I'm not trying to dispute yours,
just expand on mine with some more background I'm aware of through
multiple sources.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a ****!"




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