I'm voting republican because...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:09:12 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:36*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:07:23 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:
Who is mcbush?

god you really are an idiot, aren't you? don't even recognize a slang
term for your pimp.

I dont have a pimp. *Why should I? Unlike your family, no one here are
prostitutes.

you're a republican? you're a hooker...by definition.

You need to look in something other than the DNC Handbook to Ad Homs.




ever read alexander kozyrev's article in 'foreign affairs quarterly'?
he was foreign affairs minister *under the last soviet govt.

Yes I have.

uh huh. i'll bet you did.

Prove I didnt, or look the buffoon.

says the man who never heard of kozyrev, and doesnt even know the
article in question...

Your buffoonishness is again proven.



he said it was ECONOMIC competition, not MILITARY competition that
destroyed the USSR

All those competative foreign exports eh, like AK-74s?

if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of hiroshima.

Interesting but failed attempt to refute on your part. Rather pathetic
actually.

as i said...no attempt to deal with what the soviet insider
says...just blows it off...similar to mcbush's tactics today about the
collapse of the american economy...since mccain thinks every middle
class household has $5M sitting around...

Your denial is again noted, buffoon.




gee. bush went to war against the taliban with the military that
clinton built. seems we won in a matter of weeks.

Really? Then why did the Leftwingers bitch about no armor, no up
armored vehicles etc etc et?

what they bitched about was the fact we were fighting an insurgency
with an army built to fight the soviets...COMPLETELY different
tactics. and it took YEARS for bush to address the issues. just like
he ignored the need for more troops until he had a great military
revelation:

so they didnt bitch about no body armor, no up armored hummers and so
forth?

yeah. after bush refused to give them what they needed...not unlike
his whole attitude to the war until he fired rumsfeld.

Odd..then that armor was sitting in the warehouses where Clinton left
it?

Again, your buffoonishness is noted.


Odd..google calls you a pathetic liar.

you're a liar AND a republican...

but i repeat myself.

Your fantasy is noted with contempt.



HE LOST THE CONGRESSIONAL ELECTIONS OF 2006!! yessirree, bob, it's
hard to fool bush. general shinseki said we needed more troops in
2004. bush fired him.

What congressional elections? *Bush is a member of Congress too???

seems he doesn't know the GOP lost the congressional elections in
2006...typical GOP shill.

You communicate poorly. But then...you arnt very smart so its not
suprising.

So...if Democrats control congress...lawmaking and the purse
strings...looks like they are causing the meltdown of the financial
system. Since 2006 eh?

More malfeasence of the Left.



it wasn't until forced by POLITICS, not MILITARY strategy that bush
changed course.

Odd..Gen Petrais would disagree with you.

seems he doesn't know rumsfeld was fired the day after the 2006
elections

Deflection on your part is noted.

yep, he's republican all right.

Actually, Im an Independant.




you need someone to refill the air in your head. it's obviously empty.

Commentary from a pathetic liar like yourself, is hardly worth
blinking about.


gee. i was there. you weren't. sorry.

Too bad you arent dead. Then you would actually be worth something to
your family.

i love you too, ya big lug!

I dispise you, you little no load trumpet monkey.



war on drugs? you mean the 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'
approach that conservatives have pushed that has led to the US having
more prisoners than any country in the world?

Throw away the key? *Sonny...Im an ex cop. If we had done just
that..we wouldnt be having the problems we do have.
Its called a revolving door.

55% of federal prisoners and 21% of state prisoners are in jail for
non violent drug offenses.

Yes indeed. *And they will be out shortly.

that's because you GOP fanatics are bankrupting the country with your
'war on crime'...

War on crime? Is that another GIGO your DNC programmers put in your
brain?


seems like you never arrested many criminals, did you? why not change
your luck and head for 1600 PA evenue: arrest bush.

why arrest Bush? *He hasnt done anything illegal.

and we KNOW that because bush has told us that, right? after all he's
the creep in chief.

Actually..because the courts say he hasnt.

he hasn't suspended habeas corpus...WHOOPS!! he did!

So did Abe Lincoln.

he hasn't tortured prisoners...WHOOPS!! he did!! (guess why he never
says mccain was tortured...because we're doing the same thing to our
prisoners that the commie assholes did to mccain).

I somehow cant see Bush with a 5 gallon bucket of water.
On the other hand...LBJ did torture..actual torture, burning bamboo
under the fingernails etc etc. One of your icons I take it?

i love you republicans...you distrust the govt but believe everything
it tells you.

Interesting fantasy world you live in.

On the other hand..you ALWAYS love government and believe everything a
Democrat tells you.

your head spins around more than linda blair's did in the 'exorcist'.

probably because you're possessed.

Of smarts and common sense, yes indeed. Pity you have neither.


You on the other
hand are guilty of high mopery, malmish with intent to creep and being
incapable of caring for yourself.

and you're guilty of pretending to be a loyal, patriotic american.
but, don't worry...you're not very good at it.

My "Love Me" wall says differently.

Im curious..what was your MOS and your years of service?

Gunner

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:54:57 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:38*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:40:41 -0700 (PDT), wf3h


and how long were we there under the war criminal, republican nixon,
who unleashed the CIA to spy on american citizens? (source: 'the
history of the CIA' by matt weiner)

War criminal? *Cites please, or else be proven a lying cocksucker.

OK read slowly: who is buried in grant's tomb?

do you see the word 'source' above? a clue, republican: that's a
'cite'.

No, it didnt cover the question I asked.

Your attempt to deflect is again noted.


Hummmm....we already know you fit that bill....

Say..hows Ecelon and Carnivore doing these days? *You know..the spying
on US citizens via computer put into place by that war criminal Bill
Clinton?


he learned from the best: the GOP had everything in place to spy on
american citizens years before clinton became president.

So you admit that Clinton was really a war criminal who spied on US
citizens. Yet you approve of him.

Your hypocrisy is again noted with digust.

Thanks for playing

Gunner

I'm voting republican because...
 

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:09:12 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:



Im curious..what was your MOS and your years of service?

Gunner



Gunner the Ass wants to play the uniform card again.

It's not relevant.

Sorry.

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:57:46 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:42*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:31:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

Lets see..FDR directed both the European and Pacific campaigns eh?

ROFLMAO!! the population of japan was? of germany? the size of the
german and japanese armies?

Your avoidence of answering the question is noted with amusement.

and your comparison of apples and fish is duly noted...with belly
laughs.

You still avoid answering the question.


Say...what was the ROE in both theaters? *Something about Bomb them
flat, and then bomb them until the rubble bounces?

hmm...you've been sucking down the fiction written by such illustrious
war criminals as paul wolfowitz and other neocons...no nation building
even though the mission can't work without it...just bomb, bomb,
bomb...

So FDR didnt bomb the enemy into submission?



hell, man, you don't even know basic history. you probably think john
belushi was a history professor in 'animal house' because he said the
germans bombed pearl harbor.

Sonny...you continue to blither like ...well..the usual run of the
mill preprogrammed Useful Idiot droid turned out by the DNC.

says the knuckle walking mouth breather who believes rumsfeld won the
vietnam war.

Rummy? No. US troops on the ground did.

Then the Democrats lost it in DC

Gunner

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:14:24 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:39*pm, "Jerry" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

On Sep 15, 9:20 pm, "Jerry" wrote:

Palin will be running for Vice President, but since you mention "running
America", let's do some comparisons against someone who is trying to win
the
office of President.

Firstly, being born in Kenya and going to school in a Madrasah is hardly
the
kind of foreign exposure I would like in a President. On the other hand,
Sarah Palin has a foreign exposure out of her west facing window.

obama grew up in hawaii and went to american schools and college

Obama was BORN in Kenya.

hey brain dead...

obama was born in honolulu. now, i KNOW that, being a republican, you
don't know the difference between hawaii and kenya...

but hawaii is an american state.

He was born in Kenya, according to law suites filed by Democrats


by the way, mccain was born in the panama canal zone.

Ayup, of two American parents on US property.

I'm voting republican because...
 

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:57:46 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:42 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:31:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:
Lets see..FDR directed both the European and Pacific campaigns eh?
ROFLMAO!! the population of japan was? of germany? the size of the
german and japanese armies?
Your avoidence of answering the question is noted with amusement.
and your comparison of apples and fish is duly noted...with belly
laughs.

You still avoid answering the question.

Say...what was the ROE in both theaters? Something about Bomb them
flat, and then bomb them until the rubble bounces?
hmm...you've been sucking down the fiction written by such illustrious
war criminals as paul wolfowitz and other neocons...no nation building
even though the mission can't work without it...just bomb, bomb,
bomb...

So FDR didnt bomb the enemy into submission?
hell, man, you don't even know basic history. you probably think john
belushi was a history professor in 'animal house' because he said the
germans bombed pearl harbor.
Sonny...you continue to blither like ...well..the usual run of the
mill preprogrammed Useful Idiot droid turned out by the DNC.
says the knuckle walking mouth breather who believes rumsfeld won the
vietnam war.

Rummy? No. US troops on the ground did.

Then the Democrats lost it in DC

Gunner




Ahhh. That old lie, yet again.

Must have been your war, hey, Gunner's Ass?

Well, you lost it.

Not the pols.

You.

Not because you couldn't fight.

But because you went to fight.

We shouldn't have been in Vietnam.

We shouldn't be in Iraq.

Same stupidity, both times and both places.

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:21:33 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:04*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:46:13 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

tactical experience, speaks no other languages, no military experience,
and wants to burn library books based upon her religion?

You've described Obama.

he wants a hillbilly president. after all, the US doesn't need a
leader who can out think putin, or the chinese or the saudis.

We already had one. Clintons terms ended on Jan 7, 2001

and he balanced the budget and didn't try to lose a war like the
current president did.

Both lies on your part.

But then..we expect that from you.

Gunner

I'm voting republican because...
 

Gunner Asch wrote:


Even more crap that reads as if he were a gasbag on funny mushrooms.

Our economy...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:52:53 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:52:25 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:
you obviously don't watch the news. seems you only get your
information about the world from mccain ads.

No..I seldom watch the Leftwing Media propaganda.


there is no left wing in this country. there is fox news...and then
there's the right wing press.

Your continued lies are noted..but expected.

bush, like the good lap dog of the rich that he is, runs to support
every failing financial institution because he's worried about the
rich.

Odd...then he is not trying to keep the economy going and keep the
little people from losing all their money?

uh huh. that's why he bails out bear stearns and resists helping
individual home owners who are losing their home.

so, no...he's not helping the middle class.

Your continued lies are noted.


Cites?



but when katrina hit new orleans? he ****ed 'em and ****ed 'em good.

Actually...if you had ever left your Mommas basement, you would have
discovered that the Louisiana Democrat Machine, headed up by Gov
Blanco and Mayor Ray Nagin ****ed up their constituants very very
badly and it took Bush and the Feds to save those people.

uh...no. there were no federal resources available to help, except for
the Coast Guard which rescued 33,000 people.

Odd..all those FEMA people standing by BEFORE Katrina hit were on a
company picnic?

bush put a horse lawyer in charge of FEMA. and all that guy did was
roll up his sleeves to appear in front of cameras.

You and the Leftwing propaganda machine seemed to have missed
something....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ia_missed.html
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219

"Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal
government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state
officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and
responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is
definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump
on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and
state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders.
The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to
the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's
mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not
belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state
officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial
first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by
local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state
governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a
national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously
established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and
Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the
damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans
were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The
plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the
event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented,
thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a
simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding
supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise
simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The
problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved."


actually...yeah. bush could have sent legislation to the GOP
controlled congress anytime during his term to re-regulate financial
markets that had been deregulated by the paid whore senator phil
gramm, republican of.....ahem...texas.

So could have your butt buddy Bill CLinton. Im curious however..why
hasnt the Democrat Controlled Congress taken care of it before the
meltdown?

?? i'd call you an idiot but you'd have to gain 40 IQ points to reach
that level.

Your failure to respond coherently is again noted with amusement.

the legislation deregulating the financial services sector was passed
by the GOP senate led by texas senator phil gramm, and signed by our
current president george bush

uh...i'll break it to you gently since you're just coming out of
medication: clinton's not president any more...

And Bush isnt running again.




but texas boys don't **** each other. and gramm's wife, a board
member of enron, was busy raping the employees of enron as it went
bankrupt.

You sound like you are jealous. Or upset you dont get to **** texas
boys.

i get ****ed by texas boys every day. bush has been president...so to
speak...for 8 years.

So why havent you moved to France?

look at what happened to olberman on msnbc. he told the truth about
mccain. 15 minutes later, after mccain made a call to NBC, olberman
was off the air.

Like Dan Rather?

uh...i see you're stuck in the clinton era. you need to have the nurse
bring you a paper so you can catch up on current events.

The only current events you present are only from your fantasy world.




Durable goods is up, as is manufacturing. Seems that falling dollar is
good for manufacturing. and exports.

the USA is having a GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE!!! courtesy of the
republicans!! everything must go!!

Odd...the CBO doesnt think so. Only those suffering the terminal
stages of BDS and their programmers in the DNC make those sort of
bull**** claims.

as i said, when you don't pay people a living wage...as the american
worker is not...and give all the money to CEO's...you can afford to
sell cheap goods.

Odd..I make a living wage, and a nice one.


you're proving my point, republican.

and who was the last president to balance the budget??

a democrat named 'clinton'

ROFLMAO....even CLintons CBO calls him and you a liar. There was NO
balanced budget, you utter ****wit..it was smoke and mirrors with
accounting tricks. In fact..Clinton gave us the recession when he left
that Bush had to pull the country out of when he first took office.

i guess you believe this because the current deficit is larger than
you can count on your fingers and toes even though you have 6 on each
appendage.

Your attempt to deflect from you lies are again noted.

you're just too stupid or lazy to look up the biggest deficits since
WWII, aren't you? you just run along like the good GOP lap dog you
are...


Need the cites on that one too?

yeah...go ahead. prove to me that clinton had larger deficits than
reagan or bush. by all means, do so.

I see your reading comprehension issues are still not resolved.

Work on it and get back to me.




You leftards are simply suffering from BDS.

says the guy who thinks republicans wrote the 4 gospels.

Im Buddhist. I dont pay attention to gospels.

ah. you're living in an alternative universe. no wonder you're
clueless.

Translation: You are immune to my leftwing bull****, so you arent
playing fair.



Say...if your Obamassiah gets into office, and the country collapses
as yall are claiming its going to do....will it be Obamas fault?

too late. the country has already collapsed. better learn chinese, my
friend.

Odd..the chinese are learning English. If the US goes down the
toilet..so will the Chinese..and a big chunk of the rest of the
planet.

that's part of the problem, isn't it? they learn english, and morons
like you don't think you need to learn anything. and the chinese will
be happy to take the US for 10 cents on the dollar. their currency is
so overvalued now, being pegged to the dollar.

I learn every day. Too bad the same cant be said for you, the person
who exists on Leftwing sound bites.


On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.

ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

Really? Central California is Idaho? Interesting fantasy world you
live in. My black girlfriend would refute your attempt to use the
race card.

yeah, that explains alot.

seems you actually DO believe the GOP is gonna drive us to bankruptcy.
you just hate to admit it.

Cites?


Ill wave as you shuffle by, carrying your personal possessions in a
cardboard box on your was to a soup kitchen

no wonder you don't see the GOP as a threat. you already live in your
basement on canned food. 4 more years of GOP leadership won't be that
much of a change for you.

Actually..Im stocked up because I fear 4 yrs of Democrats will
destroy the nation.

Gunner

Our economy...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:56:38 -0400, A Boater wrote:

wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.

ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.


Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.

Another Useless Eater heard from.

Please stay on the roadway as you pass by on your way to the FEMA tent
city, Crossing over the fence will put you into a mined area..and I
really hate putting in another mine after wasting one on you.

Gunner

Our economy...
 

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:56:38 -0400, A Boater wrote:

wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.
ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.

Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.

Another Useless Eater heard from.

Please stay on the roadway as you pass by on your way to the FEMA tent
city, Crossing over the fence will put you into a mined area..and I
really hate putting in another mine after wasting one on you.

Gunner



Sorry, dumbo, I don't live in the "red state" of Texas.
Gunner the Survivalist...coming to a Saturday morning cartoon near year.
Watch Gunner shoot himself in the foot, over and over, and then put that
same foot in his mouth.

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:45:51 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

Who wants a hillbilly president? Obama? Squirrelly?

Why do you hate education?
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




.................................................. ...............
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
at http://www.TitanNews.com
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

I'm voting republican because... -- More Jerry Lies
 

"Curly Surmudgeon" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:20:48 -0500, Jerry wrote:

Firstly, being born in Kenya and going to school in a Madrasah is hardly
the kind of foreign exposure I would like in a President. On the other
hand, Sarah Palin has a foreign exposure out of her west facing window.

And you continue to tell lies even after being corrected.

--
Regards, Curly


No, you are being corrected. Why are you lying again? Why are you still
here?

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Sep 15, 11:13*am, Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:47:47 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
On Sep 15, 1:13Â*am, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:46:24 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:

"Curly Surmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:24:13 -0500, Jerry wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote in
message
...

Cheney and Quayle weren't in line behind a guy that is likely to be
undergoing chemo during the first few month's after an election.
Palin is.

Good, then we get to watch her on TV for the next eight years,
instead of some liberal boner shrinker.

Do you really look forward to putting the United States in the hands
of a housewife without foreign exposure? Â*Sarah Palin who began her
campaign with lies and misrepresentations, someone without a shred of
strategic or tactical experience, speaks no other languages, no
military experience, and wants to burn library books based upon her
religion?

Are you really postulating that Sarah Palin, who thinks God commanded
the Iraq and Afghanistani wars, is qualified to run America in its
current condition?

Or are you a pacifist troll trying to tweak noses?

--
Regards, Curly
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*Â*---
Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*Â*---

.................................................. .............. Â* Â*
* Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*
athttp://www.TitanNews.com -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous,
UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

She is the Veep.

No, she's not.

She will be.

What foreign experience does Obama have?

Irrelevant in the Sara Palin context. Â*

You demand foreign experience in a VP,

Precisely.

but not in the President? You're an idiot.

Work on your reading comprehension.

Work on posting precisely what you mean. Kindly explain Obama's
foreign service experience.

Of all the highly qualified people
McCain could have had for the position he chose a right-wing wacko who
thinks God commanded these wars, that library material must be censored,
and that the earth was created 4,000 years ago.

He did? *Who might that be? *Cites?

Ron Paul.

Ron Paul said all that? I just don't believe you.

That is a very bad choice for John McCain and unacceptable for America..

What do you know of America? *You speak ESL and live in Argentina. Some
American you are.

You, who support Bush, are in no position to judge.

But I am.

I am not the government and you are not applying to me for a job.

I can judge you all day long, every day.

As a matter of fact, I'm judging you right now.

Hint... you're not doing so good.

Not a lot from his few days he has showed up in the Senate. Â*Being
the most liberal legislator is enough to give the shivers to anybody
who works for a living.

Do not expect me to defend Barak Obama, ask someone who will vote for
him.

By voting for a third party, you get Obama.

You just said that Sarah Palin will be the next VP, which is it?

Depends. Which way are you voting?

How much of your wages are you going to contribute to his social
programs?

None,

Exactly. You are here only to take.

but that, too, is irrelevant to the qualifications, or lack of,
of Sarah Palin.

So you have no wages taxable by the USA? *Are you sure you're an
American?

I'm a true patriot, not a loyalist.

You sound more like a tax evader. Why aren't you paying taxes?

How much do you want to mortgage your children and grandchildrens
earnings?

That implies that Obama/Biden are worse than McCain/Palin. Â*I will get
into that useless, futile, arguement. Â*Instead I will vote for a good
candidate not a pawn of others.

--
Regards, Curly

You've got it all figured out and will vote for Obama via a surrogate.

And you're a loyalist voting for the status quo. *You've sold your vote in
a decidedly un-American manner thwarting the concept of the electoral
system.

You call the peaceful transfer of power which we Americans practice un-
American?

Why don't you stay in Argentina and wait for the next revolution or
coup?

You're one smart feller.

Thank you.

--
Regards, Curly

You're welcome.

Little Squirrel's failed logic... was: I'm voting republicanbecause...
 

On Sep 14, 1:54*pm, wrote:
On Sep 13, 4:01*pm, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:





On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:07:16 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:58*pm, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:24:30 -0700, Roy Blankenship wrote:

"greylock" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:16:05 -0500, "Rob Fraser"
FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote:

Well this is cruel but true- If the Republicans do win, She has a kid who
is
retarded so there will technically still be a retard in the White House.

*Does the Vice-President live in the White House in your world?

How interesting !!!

And I wouldn't call it cruel - I'd call it - and you - *assinine.

All the bull**** the neocons have thrown out? Give it a rest.

McCain won't finish his term, and then she WILL be in the White House.

Palin is another
bible-thumping crazymother****er (yeah, I know that's redundant) that
risks our civli liberties.

At least what is left of them.

--
Regards, Curly

Curly, Roy is saying Sarah Palin will be president and you give us
Quayle and Cheney???

Where is your cognitive disconnect? *

I have none, but thanks for asking.

Cheney and Quayle were Vice Presidents of the United States, no? *

Correct.

Cheney and Quayle were one heartbeat away from the Presidency, no? *

Correct.

Cheney and Quayle were horrid examples of what "might have been" if they had ascended the throne, no?

No/Yes. *I'd have preferred Cheney as president. *I don't think about
Quayle much.

And you have changed the parameters of the above dialog. *Neither
Quayle nor Cheney were president nor occupied the White House.

Why doesn't the little squirrel reply?

How does that differ in kind, not detail, from Sarah Palin ascending to
the Presidency when/if McCain is elected and dies?

Perhaps you want her "creature" billeted at the White House kennel?

Do you ever read what it is you are replying to, or do you just unroll
the dem talking points scroll and start posting?

"Phoney Outrage" is the term, you make **** up to get your panties in a
bunch. *Follow the logic, even though that appears difficult in your case.

My underwear are just fine. *As a matter of fact I just got some of
those new Hanes that are quite comfy. *They're probably not available
in Argentina yet.

Neither Quayle nor Cheney have become president. *And Hillary was more
of a VP than Algore.

Nor has Sarah Palin "become" president. *

Correct. *Curly: *"Dan Quayle and Dick Cheney have proven the dangers
of electing an administration with a terrible 2nd in command."

So how does Cheney and Quayle having NOT been president PROVEN your
perceived danger?

Why doesn't the little squirrel reply?

Perhaps parallel thinking is
difficult for you but not the rest of us.

I'm not the one saying that something that didn't happen is PROOF that
Sarah Palin is unfit to be president. *You are.

So why doesn't the little squirrel address his failed logic?

Everyone knows he is so much smarter than me so it should be a simple
matter for him to use "honest dialog" to dispatch me.

Where are you, little squirrel???

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Sep 16, 9:21*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:04*am, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:46:13 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

tactical experience, speaks no other languages, no military experience,
and wants to burn library books based upon her religion?

You've described Obama.

he wants a hillbilly president. after all, the US doesn't need a
leader who can out think putin, or the chinese or the saudis.

We already had one. Clintons terms ended on Jan 7, 2001

and he balanced the budget

So we were told. I didn't really feel the impact of it, though.

and didn't try to lose a war like the
current president did.

You might want to reconsider Wesley Clark's attempt to start WWIII in
the Balkans.

I'm voting republican because...
 

Cheney and Quayle weren't in line behind a guy that is likely to be
undergoing chemo during the first few month's after an election.
Palin
is.


Good, then we get to watch her on TV for the next eight years,
instead
of
some liberal boner shrinker.

Do you really look forward to putting the United States in the hands
of
a
housewife without foreign exposure? Sarah Palin who began her
campaign
with lies and misrepresentations, someone without a shred of
strategic
or
tactical experience, speaks no other languages, no military
experience,
and wants to burn library books based upon her religion?

Are you really postulating that Sarah Palin, who thinks God commanded
the
Iraq and Afghanistani wars, is qualified to run America in its
current
condition?

Or are you a pacifist troll trying to tweak noses?

--
Regards, Curly


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----




.................................................. ..............
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
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She is the Veep. What foreign experience does Obama have? Not a lot
from
his few days he has showed up in the Senate. Being the most liberal
legislator is enough to give the shivers to anybody who works for a
living.
How much of your wages are you going to contribute to his social
programs?
How much do you want to mortgage your children and grandchildrens
earnings?

You are repeating falsehoods when you accuse Obama of being the most
liberal, and this puts your credibility in question. It is clear you
have
been sucking up the propaganda, so don't even give us this speculative
crap
that no one can predict.




Explain who is more liberal. He may not really be the most liberal.
Spent
so little time in the Senate and never introduced any bills, he just voted
the liberal line. So I may be wrong. But his background and choice of
friends, is extremely leftist. He has proposed huge increase in
Government
and government spending. My kids and grandchildren can not afford more
debt
being passed on to them.


Then you better not send any more republicans to Washington. They ran up the
debt five trillion in the eight years Bush was president. That is more debt
than anyone ever did. So if you want more debt elect republicans. But the
other thing is that you say Obama is for a huge increase in government
spending. Didn't the republicans say they are for decreasing government
spending? You know they did. They point is do you hold anyone accountable?
Obama MIGHT make the government bigger. Bush and McCain WILL make it bigger
while claiming they will shrink it. So who do you believe? Every year of
Bush's term he's said the budget was going to be balanced in X number of
years. It never happens and now we have another whopper of debt this year. I
say you're better off with someone like Obama who is telling the truth than
someone who claims he will do things that you know he will never really do.

Hawke

I'm voting republican because...
 

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:10:14 -0700, "Roy Blankenship"
wrote:


Dude. His record in the Senate has been posted here numerous times, and
you
are dead wrong. Stop listening to the right-wing pundits, they are
desperate
liars, but way too many people hear a sound byte and believe it. I have
been
correcting my Democrat friends who have been repeating McCain's lies
about
Obama's tax ideas.


Sure Roy...sure. How big is the Obama sign in your front yard?


he just voted
the liberal line. So I may be wrong. But his background and choice of
friends, is extremely leftist. He has proposed huge increase in
Government
and government spending. My kids and grandchildren can not afford more
debt
being passed on to them.

No kidding. And under whose administration did all the debt pile up? You
are
not taking the whole picture into consideration.

FDR(D).....though of course, like Bush, he has a war going on.

Gunner


Except that FDR didn't start WWII and he finished it in less than four
years. Bush's puny little war still isn't over and it's going on 6 years.
But that just goes to show you how much better FDR was at being president
than Bush is. It's like a man being compared to a boy.

Hawke

I'm voting republican because...
 

i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...

So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.

Hawke

I'm voting republican because...
 

Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...

So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.


There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.

Are Hawaiians Americans? Sure, in name.


Hawke




----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Sep 17, 1:54*am, "Hawke" wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...

So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? *I don't.

You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.

Hawke

So you say Obama was an "anchor" baby?

I'm voting republican because...
 

On Sep 17, 6:32*am, strabo wrote:
Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...

So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? *I don't.

You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.

There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Try Puerto Rico some time. Hell, Bill Clinton wanted to pardon some
Puerto Rican terrorists to endear Hillary to their community (vote
buying) and the terrorists DIDN'T WANT TO BE PARDONED!!!

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. *The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.

Are Hawaiians Americans? Sure, in name.

Well, there you go.

I'm voting republican because...
 

"strabo" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...

So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.


There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.

Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want us
to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.

--
Ed Huntress
Living in the real America, the original 13 states... d8-)

Our economy...
 

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.
Bush didn't know about the predictions of $4/gal gasoline when asked
about them. Mc Cain says that the economy is strong even when banks
are collapsing and the stock market is in free fall.

Gummer needs to get out more often. He seems to be suffering from a
bad case of isolationism.

Our economy...
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:53:54 -0400, A Boater wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:56:38 -0400, A Boater wrote:

wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.
ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.

Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.

Another Useless Eater heard from.

Please stay on the roadway as you pass by on your way to the FEMA tent
city, Crossing over the fence will put you into a mined area..and I
really hate putting in another mine after wasting one on you.

Gunner



Sorry, dumbo, I don't live in the "red state" of Texas.
Gunner the Survivalist...coming to a Saturday morning cartoon near year.
Watch Gunner shoot himself in the foot, over and over, and then put that
same foot in his mouth.

Perhaps you can get him to tell you the story about how he lost his
toenails.

Our economy...
 

On 2008-09-17, Bob Brock wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.
Bush didn't know about the predictions of $4/gal gasoline when asked
about them. Mc Cain says that the economy is strong even when banks
are collapsing and the stock market is in free fall.

It is too bad that, even though McCain invented Blackberries, he is
not using one. If McCain was using a Blackberry, he would have a
great way to track all his houses, as well as stay informed about gas
prices, economy etc.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Our economy...
 

Ignoramus19342 wrote:
On 2008-09-17, Bob Brock wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed
office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.
Bush didn't know about the predictions of $4/gal gasoline when asked
about them. Mc Cain says that the economy is strong even when banks
are collapsing and the stock market is in free fall.

It is too bad that, even though McCain invented Blackberries, he is
not using one. If McCain was using a Blackberry, he would have a
great way to track all his houses, as well as stay informed about gas
prices, economy etc.


McCain/Palin = Trojan Moose

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

I'm voting republican because...
 

Ed Huntress wrote:

Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want us
to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.

--
Ed Huntress
Living in the real America, the original 13 states... d8-)


I hope you would include the Juniata tributary to the
Susquehanna or else I'd be foreigner. :-)
...lew...

I'm voting republican because...
 

"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want
us to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.

--
Ed Huntress
Living in the real America, the original 13 states... d8-)

I hope you would include the Juniata tributary to the
Susquehanna or else I'd be foreigner. :-)
...lew...

Sure, we count anything in the Chesapeake Watershed.

I have to tell you, though, we did NOT appreciate those signs you had on the
interstates at Easton and Stroudsburg, as you crossed the Delaware into
Pennsylvania, that said "America Starts Here." Like, what are we, chopped
liver? g

I see that PA wisely took them down.

--
Ed Huntress

Our economy...
 

John R. Carroll wrote:
Ignoramus19342 wrote:

On 2008-09-17, Bob Brock wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed
office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.
Bush didn't know about the predictions of $4/gal gasoline when asked
about them. Mc Cain says that the economy is strong even when banks
are collapsing and the stock market is in free fall.

It is too bad that, even though McCain invented Blackberries, he is
not using one. If McCain was using a Blackberry, he would have a
great way to track all his houses, as well as stay informed about gas
prices, economy etc.



McCain/Palin = Trojan Moose



I was really almost getting to like the republican ticket until I did a
little research on the relaxation of the banking laws. Aparently the
law was ammended in 1999 by an attachment to the budget bill. The
attachment was created by Phil Graham. Now you all know who Phil Graham
is, a lobyist for the banking industry and until a few weeks ago the
adviser for John McCain. Phil is also the guy that they wrote about in
this site.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_111857.html

You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said,
noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the
publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing
and credit problems and record oil prices. "We may have a recession; we
haven't had one yet."


"We have sort of become a nation of whiners," he said. "You just hear
this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness,
America in decline" despite a major export boom that is the primary
reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.


McCain is still hanging on to Phil and guess who McCain will put on his
cabinet if he is elected. McCain supported the deregulation of the
banking industry that brought these banking failures. All I can say is
if you got money in wall street it ain't your money any more.


John

I'm voting republican because...
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"strabo" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...
So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner. Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too. You
are stupid, Dude.

There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.

Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want us
to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.

Anything outside of Virginia is a pretender entity in the new world.

I'm voting republican because...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Ed Huntress wrote:
"strabo" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...
So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I
guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner.
Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too.
You
are stupid, Dude.

There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.

Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want
us to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.

Anything outside of Virginia is a pretender entity in the new world.

Well, Virginia originally extended up to what is now Maine and into Canada,
and westward to California, so that doesn't help much. d8-) Plymouth, MA was
named after one of the two Virginia companies chartered by the king of
England. Mass. was the northern part of Virginia.

--
Ed Huntress

Our economy...
 

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:34:55 -0400, john
wrote:


Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed
office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.


Odd...Last week it was $3.71, at the end of the week, it was $3.65,
this morning I filled up at $3.59

Doesnt seem like much of a rise, least not on this planet

Our economy...
 

"A Boater" wrote in message
. ..
wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.

ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.


Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.


He's in his own personal fantasy world. He thinks he's a successful
republican businessman who is living the American dream. The reality, he
lives in Taft, Calif., which is outside Bakersfield. It's one ugly place,
flat, desert-like, and nobody in their right mind ever wanted to live there.
It was a place you drove by when you went up interstate 5 from LA to
northern California. All that was there was oil wells and coyotes. He's
living a lower working class life, he's never going to get ahead, he has no
health insurance, he's already had one heart attack, and as for being a
survivalist, I give you odds that he doesn't even live four more years. So
despite his best laid plans to survive some Sci-Fi disaster fantasy in
reality he'll die in poverty leaving nothing behind but junk and his dream
of surviving will be nothing but that, a dream. Knowing what a moron he is
makes it a lot easier to completely dismiss his twisted and irrelevant
blather.

Hawke

Our economy...
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...

"A Boater" wrote in message
. ..
wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.

ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.


Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.


He's in his own personal fantasy world. He thinks he's a successful
republican businessman who is living the American dream. The reality, he
lives in Taft, Calif., which is outside Bakersfield. It's one ugly place,
flat, desert-like, and nobody in their right mind ever wanted to live
there.
It was a place you drove by when you went up interstate 5 from LA to
northern California. All that was there was oil wells and coyotes. He's
living a lower working class life, he's never going to get ahead, he has
no
health insurance, he's already had one heart attack, and as for being a
survivalist, I give you odds that he doesn't even live four more years. So
despite his best laid plans to survive some Sci-Fi disaster fantasy in
reality he'll die in poverty leaving nothing behind but junk and his dream
of surviving will be nothing but that, a dream. Knowing what a moron he is
makes it a lot easier to completely dismiss his twisted and irrelevant
blather.

Hawke

Wow. I almost feel sorry for the guy. Broken dreams.

Our economy...
 

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:34:55 -0400, john
wrote:


I was really almost getting to like the republican ticket until I did a
little research on the relaxation of the banking laws. Aparently the
law was ammended in 1999 by an attachment to the budget bill. The
attachment was created by Phil Graham. Now you all know who Phil Graham
is, a lobyist for the banking industry and until a few weeks ago the
adviser for John McCain. Phil is also the guy that they wrote about in
this site.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_111857.html

You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said,


The Huffington Post is only a **** hair to the Right of Pravda.

Perhaps you may wish to review other data points?

http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/09/...posed-in-2005/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,338629,00.html

http://members4.boardhost.com/JohnSh...221523610.html
How Fannie and Freddie weren't reined-in

Posted by Jankdc on 9/15/2008, 4:06 pm

This article is getting deleted on the servers, so I am printing it in
full he

How Fannie and Freddie weren't reined-in
The Washington Post
5:04 AM EST September 15, 2008

Gary Gensler, an undersecretary of the Treasury, went to Capitol Hill
in March 2000 to testify in favor of a bill everyone knew would fail.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were ascendant, giants of the mortgage
finance business and key players in the Clinton administration's drive
to expand homeownership. But Gensler and other Treasury officials
feared the companies had grown so large that, if they stumbled, the
damage to the U.S. economy could be staggering. Few officials had ever
publicly criticized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but Gensler concluded
it was time to urge Congress to rein them in.

"We thought this was a hand-on-the Bible moment," he recalled.

The bill failed.

The companies kept growing, the dangers posed by their scale and
financial practices kept mounting, critics kept warning of the
consequences. Yet across official Washington, those who might have
acted repeatedly failed to do so until it was too late. Last weekend,
the federal government seized control of the two companies to protect
the very mortgage market they were created to lubricate. The cost to
taxpayers could run into the tens of billions of dollars.

As policymakers now set out to decide what role government, and the
two companies, should play in the mortgage business, the failures of
the past two decades offer a cautionary tale.

Blessed with the advantages of a government agency and a private
company at the same time, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac used their
windfall profits to co-opt the politicians who were supposed to
control them. The companies fought successfully against increased
regulation by cultivating their friends and hounding their enemies.

How Fannie and Freddie weren't reined-in

The agencies that regulated the companies were outmatched: They lacked
the money, the staff, the sophistication and the political support to
serve as an effective check.

But most of all, the companies were protected by the belief widespread
in Washington -- and aggressively promoted by Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac -- that their success was inseparable from the expansion of
homeownership in America. That conviction was so strong that many
lawmakers and regulators ignored the peril posed to that ideal by the
failure of either company.

Weak regulator
In October 1992, a brief debate unfolded on the floor of the House of
Representatives over a bill to create a new regulator for Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac. On one side stood Jim Leach, an Iowa Republican
concerned that Congress was "hamstringing" this new regulator at the
behest of the companies.

He warned that the two companies were changing "from being agencies of
the public at large to money machines for the stockholding few."

On the other side stood Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who
said the companies served a public purpose. They were in the business
of lowering the price of mortgage loans.

Congress chose to create a weak regulator, the Office of Federal
Housing Enterprise Oversight. The agency was required to get its
budget approved by Congress, while agencies that regulated banks set
their own budgets. That gave congressional allies an easy way to exert
pressure.

"Fannie Mae's lobbyists worked to insure that [the] agency was poorly
funded and its budget remained subject to approval in the annual
appropriations process," OFHEO said more than a decade later in a
report on Fannie Mae. "The goal of senior management was
straightforward: to force OFHEO to rely on the [Fannie] for
information and expertise to the degree that Fannie Mae would
essentially regulate itself."

Congress also wanted to free up money for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
to buy mortgage loans and specified that the pair would be required to
keep a much smaller share of their funds on hand than other financial
institutions. Where banks that held $100 could spend $90 buying
mortgage loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could spend $97.50 buying
loans.

Finally, Congress ordered that the companies be required to keep more
capital as a cushion against losses if they invested in riskier
securities. But the rule was never set during the Clinton
administration, which came to office that winter, and was only put in
place nine years later.

The Clinton administration wanted to expand the share of Americans who
owned homes, which had stagnated below 65 percent throughout the
1980s. Encouraging the growth of the two companies was a key part of
that plan.

"We began to stress homeownership as an explicit goal for this period
of American history," said Henry Cisneros, then Secretary of Housing
and Urban Development. "Fannie and Freddie became part of that
equation."

The result was a period of unrestrained growth for the companies. They
had pioneered the business of selling bundled mortgage loans to
investors and now, as demand from investors soared, so did their
profits.

Signal moment
Near the end of the Clinton administration, some of its officials had
concluded the companies were so large that their sheer size posed a
risk to the financial system.

In the fall of 1999, Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers issued a
warning, saying, "Debates about systemic risk should also now include
government-sponsored enterprises, which are large and growing
rapidly."

It was a signal moment. An administration official had said in public
that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could be a hazard.

The next spring, seeking to limit the companies' growth, Treasury
official Gensler testified before Congress in favor of a bill that
would have suspended the Treasury's right to buy $2.25 billion of each
company's debt -- basically, a $4.5 billion lifeline for the
companies.

How Fannie and Freddie weren't reined-in

A Fannie Mae spokesman announced that Gensler's remarks had just cost
206,000 Americans the chance to buy a home because the market now saw
the companies as a riskier investment.

The Treasury Department folded in the face of public pressure.

There was an emerging consensus among politicians and even critics of
the two companies that Fannie Mae might be right. The companies
increasingly were seen as the engine of the housing boom. They were
increasingly impervious to calls for even modest reforms.

As early as 1996, the Congressional Budget Office had reported that
the two companies were using government support to goose profits,
rather than reducing mortgage rates as much as possible.

But the report concluded that severing government ties with Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac would harm the housing market. In unusually colorful
language, the budget office wrote, "Once one agrees to share a canoe
with a bear, it is hard to get him out without obtaining his agreement
or getting wet."

'Big, fat gap'
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac enjoyed the nearest thing to a license to
print money. The companies borrowed money at below-market interest
rates based on the perception that the government guaranteed
repayment, and then they used the money to buy mortgages that paid
market interest rates. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan called
the difference between the interest rates a "big, fat gap." The budget
office study found that it was worth $3.9 billion in 1995. By 2004,
the office would estimate it was worth $20 billion.

As a result, the great risk to the profitability of Fannie Mae and
Freddie Mac was not the movement of interest rates or defaults by
borrowers, the concerns of a normal financial institution. Fannie
Mae's risk was political, the concern that the government would end
its special status.

So the companies increasingly used their windfall for a massive
campaign to protect that status.

"We manage our political risk with the same intensity that we manage
our credit and interest rate risks," Fannie Mae chief executive
Franklin Raines said in a 1999 meeting with investors.

Our economy...
 

Hawke wrote:
"A Boater" wrote in message
. ..
wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.
ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.

Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.


He's in his own personal fantasy world. He thinks he's a successful
republican businessman who is living the American dream. The reality, he
lives in Taft, Calif., which is outside Bakersfield. It's one ugly place,
flat, desert-like, and nobody in their right mind ever wanted to live there.
It was a place you drove by when you went up interstate 5 from LA to
northern California. All that was there was oil wells and coyotes. He's
living a lower working class life, he's never going to get ahead, he has no
health insurance, he's already had one heart attack, and as for being a
survivalist, I give you odds that he doesn't even live four more years. So
despite his best laid plans to survive some Sci-Fi disaster fantasy in
reality he'll die in poverty leaving nothing behind but junk and his dream
of surviving will be nothing but that, a dream. Knowing what a moron he is
makes it a lot easier to completely dismiss his twisted and irrelevant
blather.

Hawke


From dust to dust, Hawke. You'll remember this when it's your time.





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Our economy...
 

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:29:41 -0700, "Roy Blankenship"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
.. .

"A Boater" wrote in message
. ..
wf3h wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:18 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

On the other hand..Im a survivalist and have made plans many many
years ago to allow me to weather the crashing of the country, for
whatever reason.

ah...a survivalist. living in the idaho mountains, drooling on your
bib about plots to dilute the white race's gene stock

yeah, that explains alot.


Gunner's Ass is a survivalist? Hehehe. Well, that explains a lot of the
drool dripping down his chin...survival of the least fit.


He's in his own personal fantasy world. He thinks he's a successful
republican businessman who is living the American dream. The reality, he
lives in Taft, Calif., which is outside Bakersfield. It's one ugly place,
flat, desert-like, and nobody in their right mind ever wanted to live
there.
It was a place you drove by when you went up interstate 5 from LA to
northern California. All that was there was oil wells and coyotes. He's
living a lower working class life, he's never going to get ahead, he has
no
health insurance, he's already had one heart attack, and as for being a
survivalist, I give you odds that he doesn't even live four more years. So
despite his best laid plans to survive some Sci-Fi disaster fantasy in
reality he'll die in poverty leaving nothing behind but junk and his dream
of surviving will be nothing but that, a dream. Knowing what a moron he is
makes it a lot easier to completely dismiss his twisted and irrelevant
blather.

Hawke

Wow. I almost feel sorry for the guy. Broken dreams.

Actually Roy..I live here intentionally. The place is fully paid off,
Ive got enough space to do pretty much what I want, the shop is
EXTREMELY well equipped, etc etc

I live in an area rich in cogeneration plants, oil infrastructure, and
surrounded by some of the most productive agriculture in the world.
Ive a very large circle of friends and aquaintences, in both that
area, including law enforcment and the city and county fathers.
Its a very Red area, where CCWs are common (unlike most of the rest of
California). The town itself is actually quite nice though its in a
bit of a depression, which is fine with me. Ive been there since
1983, and am quite comfortable there. Its my Home Base. A place to
retire, or hole up.

The parakeet of course has never been there, it being well over 25
miles off of I-5...so he really doesnt have a clue.

The town is backed up against the Temblor mountain range, being about
5 miles from the San Andres fault, good cattle grazing country, deer
hunting and about 1.5 hours from the Pacific ocean on good roads.
Several local lakes, the California aqueduct etc supply good fishing,
boating etc. Crime is very low, most households are well armed, we
have more CCW holders than law enforcement in the county. We kinda
like it that way.

It things turn to ****...Im not going to be without power...local
areas well served by cogeneration. Im not going to be without fuel,
several refineries in the area. Im not going to be without food, both
from my own crops, and from the surrounding area. I can easily barter
machining, welding, gunsmithing for food, fuel etc. I do it regularly
now..shrug. The two local machine shops borrow tooling etc from
me..G

Lots of horses in the area.

Its hot in the summer, but its high desert, not the Mojave. It doesnt
rain much, but there are many local wells, both public and private,
so water is not an issue.

We are far enough off the beaten path, that refugees from the LA area
will bypass us, and entry to the area is easily controlled. And will
be.

Ive got sufficient food, fuel, water, infrastructure laid in to keep
going in a total breakdown for up to 6 + months.
My security is pretty good, both in active and passive modes, plus
dogs etc. Being friends with a goodly number of the local law
enforcment adds some benefits as well.

When I lost my house in the '83 Coalinga Earthquake..I kept not only
my family sheltered, fed and watered, but virtually everyone on my
block as well. It took Fema etc nearly two weeks to get rolling, and
we were just hunky dorey.

I am self employed, indeed. And yes its feast or famine. And no,
unlike the Parakeet, I dont live in my moms basement and leech off
her. She is long dead..shrug. Someday the Parakeet will have to face
the outside world.

But Im doing ok, with more work coming in than I can handle most of
the time. Juggling it sometimes can be "interesting".

My health isnt all that bad. Ive got angina, havent had to take a
nitro in 3 yrs. But I AM almost 55, and have lead something of a hard
life, lots of dings, puckers, zippers on my old carcass, so its to be
expected. On the other hand, I can look down and still see my belt
buckle (the parakeet cant even see his feet...morbidly obese) and
while I cant run 3 miles anymore..I can walk/trot for days.

Ive never had a heart attack. But it did give me a warning, so Ive
changed my life style a bit, becoming less of a work a holic, eating
better etc.

If I die, my next of kin will be able to dispose of my assests and
while not be rich, will be comfortable. Its a shame the Parakeet has
so little knowlege of the Real world outside of his moms
basement....he is the sort to call a 57 Chevy...just an old car..a
junker. His ignorance is widely known, and laughed at because he
pontificates on things he is not only ignorant of, but incapable of
comprehending.

While he huddles in his chair, surrounded by rotting pizza boxes and
trash, in front of his computer, raging against the world from deep in
the heart of his Moms basement, Im puttering around in the machine
shop, or the welding shop, or simply sitting on the veranda, feet
propped up on the rail, cat in my lap, dogs at my feet, watching the
hummingbirds and noodling around on the banjo, or got one of the
sailboats out on a local lake, or the BMW scooter out on the winding
mountain roads.

Shrug..I guess we have different priorities, no? As to
surviving..shrug..no one knows if they are going to survive to
tommorow. All we can do is try to make plans, take steps etc to do
what we can for ourselves and our families in the event of an
emergency. Id be surprised if the Parakeet has a single fire
extinguisher in his home. Between the house, the shops etc..last
count I had 11. First aid kits, from simple to First Responder..and
the knowledge to use them. Id be surprised if the parakeet could
stand the sight of blood, let alone deliver a baby, or remove a hot
appendix. (Ive done both under extreme circumstances)

Shrug..let him feel smug and arrogant. Thats all he has. There is no
bottom or substance to him. I may or may not live to the average span
my family enjoys..the late 90s, but Ive LIVED and will continue to do
so.

On the other hand..I fully expect to bulldoze the Parakeets bloated
corpse into a mass grave, if Bad Things ever happen. Too bad its
likely he wont be recognizable, as Id like to **** on him in contempt
as he goes into the hole.

Gunner

Our economy...
 

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:13:23 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:34:55 -0400, john
wrote:


Gasoline is selling for three times what it was when Bush presumed
office.

Gasoline is going down, does he get credit for that too?

Gummer apparently hasn't bought any gasoline in the past week or so.


Odd...Last week it was $3.71, at the end of the week, it was $3.65,
this morning I filled up at $3.59

Doesnt seem like much of a rise, least not on this planet

I filled up this morning...$3.55

Odd....I thought gas was skyrocketing?

Gunner

I'm voting republican because...
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Ed Huntress wrote:
"strabo" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:
i agree. mccain was born in the panama canal zone. he doesn't deserve
to be president...
So you think the children of service men and service women born on USA
military installations overseas are foreigners? I don't.


You seem to think that people born in Hawaii are not Americans. Bill
O'Reilly said on his show today that Obama was born in Hawaii. So I
guess
that proves it, doesn't it? But you said that Obama is a foreigner.
Logic
says that means you think everyone born in Hawaii is a foreigner too.
You
are stupid, Dude.

There's a lot of anti-American feeling in Hawaii.

Making Hawaii a state was a mistake. The natives didn't want it and it
wasn't necessary from a commercial or strategic standpoint.
Hell, it was a mistake to make most of the territories west of the
Susquehanna River into states. They spit and fart too much, and they want
us to subsidize everything from their corn to their water projects.
Anything outside of Virginia is a pretender entity in the new world.

Well, Virginia originally extended up to what is now Maine and into Canada,
and westward to California, so that doesn't help much. d8-) Plymouth, MA was
named after one of the two Virginia companies chartered by the king of
England. Mass. was the northern part of Virginia.

I thought Virginia ended at the Mississippi River. I wasn't aware that
it stretched to the Spanish territories out west.