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#11
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Boating today...
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:16:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? *I* wasn't the one who presented it as a problem, Harry did over in Chuck's Place. Then he started getting responses about his power steering, etc. I realized yesterday that something as simple as wind direction will cause a change in the clock position of the knob. I didn't opt for it. The knob came with the Key West. It was easily removed. |
#12
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. |
#13
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. Frankly, I don't know what Harry is talking about. Every boat I've owned with hydraulic or cable steering, from the Navigator, the Grand Banks, to the Scout and Boston Whaler will have different helm positions to compensate for windage while maintaining a course. Harry needs to take a ride on a boat with rudder position indicators, set a course, put the autopilot on and observe the rudder positions when running with wind on the beam. Eisboch |
#14
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:16:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. Frankly, I don't know what Harry is talking about. Every boat I've owned with hydraulic or cable steering, from the Navigator, the Grand Banks, to the Scout and Boston Whaler will have different helm positions to compensate for windage while maintaining a course. Harry needs to take a ride on a boat with rudder position indicators, set a course, put the autopilot on and observe the rudder positions when running with wind on the beam. Eisboch Perhaps Harry has a boat unaffected by wind? Ethereal, perhaps? |
#15
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
More on helm positions .... or semi-worthless nautical information .... I never knew this until we had the Grand Banks. By tradition, dating back to the great sailing ships, the helm had one spoke that was marked in some fashion to indicate that the rudder was midships when the marked spoke was in the upright position. There's a name for this mark that escapes me, but the Grand Banks carried on this nautical tradition. Here are pictures of the lower and upper station helms. In the case of the GB, one spoke had rings turned into it on a lathe to mark the midship spoke. They are indicated by the red arrows: The GB had cable steering. I can guarantee that the marked spoke would be in different positions when maintaining a steady course in different wind conditions. http://www.eisboch.com/lowerhelmmark.jpg http://www.eisboch.com/upperhelmmark.jpg Eisboch |
#16
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. Who told me that? A "techie" guy on a real boating discussion board, who backed up what he said with a quote from the manual. |
#17
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
Eisboch wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. Frankly, I don't know what Harry is talking about. Every boat I've owned with hydraulic or cable steering, from the Navigator, the Grand Banks, to the Scout and Boston Whaler will have different helm positions to compensate for windage while maintaining a course. Harry needs to take a ride on a boat with rudder position indicators, set a course, put the autopilot on and observe the rudder positions when running with wind on the beam. Eisboch We're not talking about the same thing here, I don't believe. I'm talking about the engine or rudder being entirely amidships, in no apparent wind or current, and the knob on the wheel being wherever the hell it feels like being. You and Herring talking about the engine or rudder being used to maintain a course during the impact of wind, current or wave action. There's a difference, a big one. |
#18
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:20:54 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
More on helm positions .... or semi-worthless nautical information .... I never knew this until we had the Grand Banks. By tradition, dating back to the great sailing ships, the helm had one spoke that was marked in some fashion to indicate that the rudder was midships when the marked spoke was in the upright position. There's a name for this mark that escapes me, but the Grand Banks carried on this nautical tradition. Here are pictures of the lower and upper station helms. In the case of the GB, one spoke had rings turned into it on a lathe to mark the midship spoke. They are indicated by the red arrows: The GB had cable steering. I can guarantee that the marked spoke would be in different positions when maintaining a steady course in different wind conditions. http://www.eisboch.com/lowerhelmmark.jpg http://www.eisboch.com/upperhelmmark.jpg Eisboch If one thinks that wind direction and speed won't affect helm position, they've never watched a plane land with a crosswind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX3S5...eature=related I wonder if that pilot has his rudder turned a little? |
#19
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
"HK" wrote in message . .. Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:47:54 -0400, HK wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:55:04 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:20:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:14:26 -0400, John H. wrote: was a blast. We went to a boaters' beach in Belmont Bay. Shared the place with about 50 other boats and had a great time. Went over to our old stomping grounds in Mattawoman Creek only to find the 'beach' overrun with hydrilla. No boats anywhere. Weather was great, little breeze (just enough to pinpoint the 'knob drift' problem), and nothing but wakes over one foot. The new Yamaha ran like a top. One of these days I'll see how fast it'll push that Key West. We're still very happy with the boat. Oh, and I didn't feel too 'foolish' either! Knob drift? Yeah, the thing Harry was complaining about on Chuck's Island. The position of the knob, when going straight, will vary with the direction of the wind. It doesn't mean there's a hydraulic steering problem or anything else, although I suppose it could. Um....that's not a "problem" as such - it's entirely normal when adjusting for windage you will naturally turn into or away from windage changing the position of the wind. Remember you have what is essentially a bay boat with no real draft to keep you from moving when the wind gets up. - in particular if you are just "cruising" along at a relatively slow speed. You will have better control as you speed up. Eventually, your helm will make a 360 degree turn on you - the hydraulics aren't pressurized so there will always be some slop in the system and it will vary with air temp - even your console will have some effect on the expansion and contraction of the steering control's hydraulic fluid. That's one of the little annoyances of light hydraulic steering on small boats. In the eight years I've owned the Ranger, my helm has spun around 360 or eve more than that. Why did you opt for the knob? The wind is NOT the issue. Good grief. The wandering knob syndrome is normal for Seastar hydraulic steering systems. It's mentioned in the manuals that come with the steering system. Yesh - and who told you that? It wasn't the manual. And I'd love to debate the relative positions of the helm when steering into or away from wind, but I don't feel like it. Who told me that? A "techie" guy on a real boating discussion board, who backed up what he said with a quote from the manual. Your "techie" is full of it. Hydraulic systems are capable of very fine and repeatable positioning due to the non-compressibility of the fluid. They are used often over cable or pneumatic systems when fine positioning control is required because they overcome the "sticky" nature of pneumatics and the stretching of cables. In the business I was in we used air over oil hydraulic systems to precisely move and locate 500 lb objects to within thousands of an inch. If the hydraulic steering system has not been purged of all air, or if there is a leak, I can accept the helm position non-repeatability. But, if leak-free and purged of all air, it should be perfectly repeatable. It's the cross wind. Eisboch |
#20
posted to rec.boats
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Boating today...
"HK" wrote in message . .. We're not talking about the same thing here, I don't believe. I'm talking about the engine or rudder being entirely amidships, in no apparent wind or current, and the knob on the wheel being wherever the hell it feels like being. You and Herring talking about the engine or rudder being used to maintain a course during the impact of wind, current or wave action. There's a difference, a big one. But, aren't *you* the one who chastised JohnH that "it's not the wind"? Eisboch |
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