wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:09:42 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
. ..

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
The high:

Today is the birthday of Leonardo da Vinci, the Italian
genius whose work epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal and
whose
Last Supper (1495-98) and Mona Lisa (1503-06) are widely
influential
paintings. Born in 1452.

The low:

On this day in 1955, Roy Croc opened the first McDonald's
franchise
in Des Plaines, Illinois, and in that same year started the
McDonald's Corporation.


:)

I believe it was Ray Croc. First store was about 2 miles from my
childhood home.

If McDonald's was unionized Harry would be gushing about it.

Can you imagine the increased apathy of the workers at McDonald's
if
it
was unionized?


Maybe as bad as a bunch of pseudo marines?


I find your comments about BAR's service to our Country with the USMC
offensive Don and ask that you drop it.


I find his comments about hard working union members offensive. Ask
him
to
'drop it' and I'll consider same.


There are those? More than a minority?


You would not be retired with a pension if it wasn't for unions,
dumbass.



I would not? I actually get 2 small pensions from companies I worked for.
Both non union. Only union I belonged to was the CWA when I worked for
Western Electric when I got out of high school. A most incompetent union.
Go on strike for a couple of months for a 10 cent raise, almost the same
amount the company was willing to give at first. I worked for mostly
companies that had 401K programs and I also invested well. My Altria
holdings pay me a couple times my pensions by itself.


You really are thick. As I said, you would not have those benefits if
it was not for unions. That's where all of those practices came from.
Non-union people have gained an enormous amount of benefits on the
backs of union workers. As I said earlier, all those years when your
job was based on a 40 hour 5 day work week with weekends off,
holidays, ppresonal days, and vacations, was a gift to you from from
the unions. So was any overtime and sick pay you ever received. There
is a lot more.





The overtime was by government fiat.

wrote in message
...

You STILL don't get it. Virtually all labor laws that benefit workers
were the direct result of unions. The government never thought of time
and a half for overtime on it's own. They saw it as something that
union workers had fought for and won. They thought all workers (even
the helpless non-union ones) should have the same overtime pay as the
union workers.



There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...
You STILL don't get it. Virtually all labor laws that benefit workers
were the direct result of unions. The government never thought of time
and a half for overtime on it's own. They saw it as something that
union workers had fought for and won. They thought all workers (even
the helpless non-union ones) should have the same overtime pay as the
union workers.



There is none so blind as he who will not see.



Some of us understand there are no human islands, and that all of us
have obtained what minor or major success we have in life because of the
direct or indirect help of other individuals or organizations.

The ones who don't understand that are...hopeless.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:59:20 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:48:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:09:42 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
t...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
The high:

Today is the birthday of Leonardo da Vinci, the Italian
genius whose work epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal and
whose
Last Supper (1495-98) and Mona Lisa (1503-06) are widely
influential
paintings. Born in 1452.

The low:

On this day in 1955, Roy Croc opened the first McDonald's
franchise
in Des Plaines, Illinois, and in that same year started the
McDonald's Corporation.


:)

I believe it was Ray Croc. First store was about 2 miles from my
childhood home.

If McDonald's was unionized Harry would be gushing about it.

Can you imagine the increased apathy of the workers at McDonald's
if
it
was unionized?


Maybe as bad as a bunch of pseudo marines?


I find your comments about BAR's service to our Country with the USMC
offensive Don and ask that you drop it.


I find his comments about hard working union members offensive. Ask
him
to
'drop it' and I'll consider same.


There are those? More than a minority?


You would not be retired with a pension if it wasn't for unions,
dumbass.



I would not? I actually get 2 small pensions from companies I worked for.
Both non union. Only union I belonged to was the CWA when I worked for
Western Electric when I got out of high school. A most incompetent union.
Go on strike for a couple of months for a 10 cent raise, almost the same
amount the company was willing to give at first. I worked for mostly
companies that had 401K programs and I also invested well. My Altria
holdings pay me a couple times my pensions by itself.


You really are thick. As I said, you would not have those benefits if
it was not for unions. That's where all of those practices came from.
Non-union people have gained an enormous amount of benefits on the
backs of union workers. As I said earlier, all those years when your
job was based on a 40 hour 5 day work week with weekends off,
holidays, ppresonal days, and vacations, was a gift to you from from
the unions. So was any overtime and sick pay you ever received. There
is a lot more.





The overtime was by government fiat.


You STILL don't get it. Virtually all labor laws that benefit workers
were the direct result of unions. The government never thought of time
and a half for overtime on it's own. They saw it as something that
union workers had fought for and won. They thought all workers (even
the helpless non-union ones) should have the same overtime pay as the
union workers.


Salty, I don't think anyone has denied that the unions have served a
purpose. The point had to do with unions today. At least two unions with
which I'm very familiar, the NEA and the AFGE, leave a very bad taste in my
mouth.
--
John *H*
(Not the other one!)

wrote:


Not relevant to what I posted. A lot of things people take for
granted, like weekends off, paid vacations, sick time, getting paid
for all hours you work, and pensions are all the result of Unions.

You owe them a hugh debt of gratitude along with your criticisms.



Many self-thinkers have the same minus the "pensions". How much are
union dues?

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:39:24 -0400, BAR wrote:

Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Have you ever tried to fire a government employee?


Who gave them this protection??
Protection? Protection for whom? Why does the government have to employ
idiots and lazy slobs? If you can't do the job then you should leave and
if you won't leave you shoud be fired. Why does the taxpayer have to
subsidize stupid lazy people?

We hade pretty good protection at the Crown Corp where I worked until 1996
when bad times forced the union to accept weaknd employee protection in a
new collective agreement. I felt we should have fought it tooth & nail.
Protection again? You should hold your job as long as you are
satisfactorily performing it or until your job is no longer needed by
your employer.

I worked for the US government and I know how people are gotten rid of
in government organizations. The Peter Principle comes into play.

Currently I am in an "at will employment" situation. You should never be
guaranteed a job whether in private industry or government.

Bert, have you ever heard of the AFGE? I had a steward for said union
working for me once. She did almost no government work, as she was always
defending someone's rights to do nothing on the job.

My government work ended over 26 years ago. The hardest working people
were the Wage Grade guys who delivered our bulk supplies, computer
paper, cards and tapes. There were some account's that were hard working
too.

I tried for well over a year to fire a statistician who didn't know what a
summation symbol meant. After a year of meetings, letters, threats, etc.,
the Commanding General backed down and moved her to another job.

We had a guy who was promoted form a GS-5 to a GS-7. His position with
us only went to GS-5 and there was a GS-7 position my boss found and
strongly encouraged the guy to apply for. We got more work done without
him.

I worked with some pretty good statisticians doing work on grain, cotton
and stockyards inspections. These guys were great thinkers.

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...
You STILL don't get it. Virtually all labor laws that benefit workers
were the direct result of unions. The government never thought of time
and a half for overtime on it's own. They saw it as something that
union workers had fought for and won. They thought all workers (even
the helpless non-union ones) should have the same overtime pay as the
union workers.



There is none so blind as he who will not see.



****ing lemming. Do you ever have an original thought, Donnie?

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:41:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
The high:

Today is the birthday of Leonardo da Vinci, the Italian
genius whose work epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal and whose
Last Supper (1495-98) and Mona Lisa (1503-06) are widely influential
paintings. Born in 1452.

The low:

On this day in 1955, Roy Croc opened the first McDonald's franchise
in Des Plaines, Illinois, and in that same year started the
McDonald's Corporation.


:)
I believe it was Ray Croc. First store was about 2 miles from my
childhood home.
If McDonald's was unionized Harry would be gushing about it.

Can you imagine the increased apathy of the workers at McDonald's if it
was unionized?

Maybe as bad as a bunch of pseudo marines?

I find your comments about BAR's service to our Country with the USMC
offensive Don and ask that you drop it.

I find his comments about hard working union members offensive. Ask him to
'drop it' and I'll consider same.

There are those? More than a minority?

You would not be retired with a pension if it wasn't for unions,
dumbass.
Unions are a thing of the past. The only job where unions have firm
control is teachers unions and this is where we don't need guaranteed
lifetime employment. Everywhere else unions are dying off.

Not relevant to what I posted. A lot of things people take for
granted, like weekends off, paid vacations, sick time, getting paid
for all hours you work, and pensions are all the result of Unions.

You owe them a hugh debt of gratitude along with your criticisms.

That is your opinion.

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:09:42 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
The high:

Today is the birthday of Leonardo da Vinci, the Italian
genius whose work epitomized the Renaissance humanist ideal and
whose
Last Supper (1495-98) and Mona Lisa (1503-06) are widely
influential
paintings. Born in 1452.

The low:

On this day in 1955, Roy Croc opened the first McDonald's franchise
in Des Plaines, Illinois, and in that same year started the
McDonald's Corporation.


:)
I believe it was Ray Croc. First store was about 2 miles from my
childhood home.
If McDonald's was unionized Harry would be gushing about it.

Can you imagine the increased apathy of the workers at McDonald's if
it
was unionized?

Maybe as bad as a bunch of pseudo marines?

I find your comments about BAR's service to our Country with the USMC
offensive Don and ask that you drop it.

I find his comments about hard working union members offensive. Ask him
to
'drop it' and I'll consider same.

There are those? More than a minority?

You would not be retired with a pension if it wasn't for unions,
dumbass.


I would not? I actually get 2 small pensions from companies I worked for.
Both non union. Only union I belonged to was the CWA when I worked for
Western Electric when I got out of high school. A most incompetent union.
Go on strike for a couple of months for a 10 cent raise, almost the same
amount the company was willing to give at first. I worked for mostly
companies that had 401K programs and I also invested well. My Altria
holdings pay me a couple times my pensions by itself.


You really are thick. As I said, you would not have those benefits if
it was not for unions. That's where all of those practices came from.
Non-union people have gained an enormous amount of benefits on the
backs of union workers. As I said earlier, all those years when your
job was based on a 40 hour 5 day work week with weekends off,
holidays, ppresonal days, and vacations, was a gift to you from from
the unions. So was any overtime and sick pay you ever received. There
is a lot more.

Evolution. Everything evolves over time. Sometimes that evolution is
made faster or slower but, it always occurs.

Would you like to address what the unions have done to the automakers?