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#1
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
Drove down to Fairhaven yesterday to check out the Sabreliner I have
interest in. Overall, it appears to be in pretty decent shape for a 1991 model. There is some typical gelcoat crazing found on older boats, mostly along the toe rail and a few minor blemishes but nothing serious. It has some brightwork exterior trim that needs to be redone, but that's not a big deal. It was difficult to get a good look at the exterior because it's still shrinkwrapped, but from what I could see peeking under the wrap, it looks good. Nothing visually unusual with the hull ... no apparent damage or grounding repairs. The interior was very good as was the engine spaces. Very clean and well maintained. No unusual smells. Bilges were clean and odor-free. My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900 hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean and obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular engines hold up. I've done a little research on them and they are a very popular marine engine with few problems reported. According to the broker, they were fully checked out in August of 2005, including an oil analysis which came back fine. The current owner has only put about 100 hours on them since. The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They really run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat. This style boat appeals to me and is perfect for my future, more individual boating interest. Probably won't do a lot of cruising, but it would be nice to make it from the Cape up to Scituate in 2.5-3 hours instead of 7 hours on the Grand Banks. And, I like having twins. It is one of three for sale in the MA, RI, CT area of roughly the same year and has the lowest asking price. I am trying to stay within a total budget of $150K for boat, taxes and any repairs/upgrades another boat may require. Hmmmmm..... Eisboch |
#2
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
On Apr 8, 5:14*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
Drove down to Fairhaven yesterday to check out the Sabreliner I have interest in. *Overall, it appears to be in pretty decent shape for a 1991 model. *There is some typical gelcoat crazing found on older boats, mostly along the toe rail and a few minor blemishes but nothing serious. *It has some brightwork exterior trim that needs to be redone, but that's not a big deal. It was difficult to get a good look at the exterior because it's still shrinkwrapped, but from what I could see peeking under the wrap, it looks good. *Nothing visually unusual with the hull ... no apparent damage or grounding repairs. The interior was very good as was the engine spaces. *Very clean and well maintained. *No unusual smells. *Bilges were clean and odor-free. My only real concern is the engine hours. *Turns out there are about 3900 hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. *The engines are very clean and obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular engines hold up. *I've done a little research on them and they are a very popular marine engine with few problems reported. *According to the broker, they were fully checked out in August of 2005, including an oil analysis which came back fine. *The current owner has only put about 100 hours on them since. * * The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. *If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. *They really run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat. This style boat appeals to me and is perfect for my future, more individual boating interest. *Probably won't do a lot of cruising, but it would be nice to make it from the Cape up to Scituate in 2.5-3 hours instead of 7 hours on the Grand Banks. *And, I like having twins. *It is one of three for sale in the MA, RI, CT area of roughly the same year and has the lowest asking price. I am trying to stay within a total budget of $150K *for boat, taxes and any repairs/upgrades another boat may require. Hmmmmm..... Eisboch Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines built. Many a workin' mansDodge pickup has run them with little maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles. In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. I'm sure you're familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in there. Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the testing is cheap too. |
#3
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote: The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They really run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat. Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines built. Many a workin' mansDodge pickup has run them with little maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles. In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. I'm sure you're familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in there. Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the testing is cheap too. -------------------------- Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. Thanks. I suspected they are good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about them. Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would be fine for me. I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them. As I mentioned in my original post, the oil was changed at lay up last fall, so an oil analysis won't be very meaningful. Eisboch |
#4
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
On Apr 8, 7:44*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote: The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They really run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat. Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines built. Many a *workin' mansDodge pickup has run them *with little maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles. In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. *I'm sure you're familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in there. Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the testing is cheap too. -------------------------- Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. *Thanks. * I suspected they are good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about them. * Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would be fine for me. * I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them.. As I mentioned in my original post, the oil was changed at lay up last fall, so an oil analysis won't be very meaningful. Eisboch Sorry, I missed your statement about the oil change. But one thing about the 5.9 cummins is it's popularity obviously because of Dodge. Now I don't know about a marinized version which would be manifold and possibly turbo, and don't know about the labor, but even so, a NEW (not reman) longblock engine is less than $8,000.00 USD from what I understand. BTW, not counting the long lifespan, they're also a very economical engine. PLUS there's lots fo tricks that can be doe tot hem to gain major horsepower safely. |
#5
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
On Apr 8, 8:00*am, Tim wrote:
On Apr 8, 7:44*am, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote: The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. |
#6
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 8, 7:44 am, "Eisboch" wrote: Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. Thanks. I suspected they are good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about them. Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would be fine for me. I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them. BTW, Richard. i just talked to a friend fo mine in the diesel refit business. now this is automotive form, but a brand new (non-reman) 5.9 Cummins for the Dodge PU's are about $5500.00 USD. So I'd say that even if something drastic would happen, for the engine itself, I'd say that $8000, in marine form would be about right. Of course, labor not included. --------------------------------------------- Well, based on your recommendations and input from DePaul Diesel Service, my concerns about the hours are diminished. I am still going to have DePaul do engine surveys anyway. So, if one of the engines blows up the day after closing, I'll come knocking on your door for donations. :-) Current status: We've agreed on the price and conditions. The signed P&S and deposit will be forwarded in the morning. The process is underway. Eisboch |
#7
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
Tim wrote:
On Apr 8, 8:00 am, Tim wrote: On Apr 8, 7:44 am, "Eisboch" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 8, 5:14 am, "Eisboch" wrote: The oil was changed when it was laid up last fall, so a new oil analysis isn't going to determine much of anything. If we proceed with this boat, an arduous sea trial with a good diesel mechanic is in order. The people that the buyer of the Navigator hired would be good. They really run the engines through their paces, checking all temps and operation while underway, doing things I'd never do with a boat. Richard. the 5.9 Turbo diesel si one of the most rock solid engines built. Many a workin' mansDodge pickup has run them with little maintenance over oil changes for 400,000+ miles. In anything else, ask for an oil analysis test. I'm sure you're familiar with it, but maybe not. They suck up some engine oil, send it to have sampled then the lab can tell you a lot aboutt he internals of the engine. Just like a blood test. amazing what they can find in there. Of course if it was freah changed befor moth-balling, it wond be of much help. but if it's seasoned oil, it would be to your benefit. the testing is cheap too. -------------------------- Good information regarding the 5.9 Turbo. Thanks. I suspected they are good engines because I really can't find anything negative reported about them. Even if they typically need a rebuild after 5000 hours, they would be fine for me. I doubt I'll put more than 50-100 hours a year on them. As I mentioned in my original post, the oil was changed at lay up last fall, so an oil analysis won't be very meaningful. Eisboch Sorry, I missed your statement about the oil change. But one thing about the 5.9 cummins is it's popularity obviously because of Dodge. Now I don't know about a marinized version which would be manifold and possibly turbo, and don't know about the labor, but even so, a NEW (not reman) longblock engine is less than $8,000.00 USD from what I understand. BTW, not counting the long lifespan, they're also a very economical engine. PLUS there's lots fo tricks that can be doe tot hem to gain major horsepower safely.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - BTW, Richard. i just talked to a friend fo mine in the diesel refit business. now this is automotive form, but a brand new (non-reman) 5.9 Cummins for the Dodge PU's are about $5500.00 USD. So I'd say that even if something drastic would happen, for the engine itself, I'd say that $8000, in marine form would be about right. Of course, labor not included. I'd love to see that sort of price on a new Cummins 5.9 TD for marine use. I would think it closer to somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000. I doubt you can buy a 90 hp outboard for $8000 these days. |
#8
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:14:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900 hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean and obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular engines hold up. That's a lot of hours for turbos. Even if very well maintained and presently in perfect condition, there is a rebuild or replacement somewhere down the road, maybe at 5,000 to 6,000 hours. On the other hand, if you don't plan any extensive cruising north/south, they might last you quite a while. I'd get them checked out *very* carefully and build some maintenance $$$s into your offering price. |
#9
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:14:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: My only real concern is the engine hours. Turns out there are about 3900 hours on the Cummins 6BT5.9-M turbo-diesels. The engines are very clean and obviously well maintained, but I don't know how well these particular engines hold up. That's a lot of hours for turbos. Even if very well maintained and presently in perfect condition, there is a rebuild or replacement somewhere down the road, maybe at 5,000 to 6,000 hours. On the other hand, if you don't plan any extensive cruising north/south, they might last you quite a while. I'd get them checked out *very* carefully and build some maintenance $$$s into your offering price. I did. I am not trying to low ball the seller (not my style) but I made what I consider to be a reasonable, informal "verbal" offer with consideration to the hours on the engines only. The rest of the stuff I can deal with. The seller is thinking it over. I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably by DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI. They did the inspection on the Navigator sea trial and I was impressed with their procedures. It's more likely than not that my future "boating" will consist of less than 100 hours a year underway. Like you, I assumed a rebuild at about 5000 hours is probably about right. That means about 11 years or more. Good enough. If the boat and I last that long, it will be worth it. Eisboch |
#10
posted to rec.boats
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New boat search
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:27:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I'll have them rigorously tested and inspected if we proceed, probably by DePaul Diesel Service out of Portsmouth, RI. Not that you asked for my opinion, but those guys are the best. Seriously. |
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