On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:06:06 -0800, Chuck Gould wrote:


Compare the average level of educational achievement on, say, the left
coast with the average education in customarily red states like
Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri. Then reevaluate. Thanks.

It's worse than that:

http://www.thebluestate.com/2005/10/...06_smarte.html

Note, the 21 states that spend the least on education, are all red.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:06:06 -0800, Chuck Gould wrote:


Compare the average level of educational achievement on, say, the left
coast with the average education in customarily red states like
Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri. Then reevaluate. Thanks.

It's worse than that:

http://www.thebluestate.com/2005/10/...06_smarte.html

Note, the 21 states that spend the least on education, are all red.



I always get a kick out of the rationalization that education (or money
spent on it) automatically implies"smartness" in people.
There's a lot of stupid people with years of advanced degrees, just as there
are many "smart" people with limited education.

Eisboch

On Feb 10, 9:15�am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:06:06 -0800, Chuck Gould wrote:

Compare the average level of educational achievement on, say, the left
coast with the average education in customarily red states like
Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri. Then reevaluate. Thanks.

It's worse than that:

http://www.thebluestate.com/2005/10/...06_smarte.html

Note, the 21 states that spend the least on education, are all red.

I always get a kick out of the rationalization that education (or money
spent on it) �automatically implies"smartness" in people.
There's a lot of stupid people with years of advanced degrees, just as there
are many "smart" people with limited education.

Eisboch

I agree with you entirely.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:07:15 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 9:15?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:06:06 -0800, Chuck Gould wrote:

Compare the average level of educational achievement on, say, the left
coast with the average education in customarily red states like
Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri. Then reevaluate. Thanks.

It's worse than that:

http://www.thebluestate.com/2005/10/...06_smarte.html

Note, the 21 states that spend the least on education, are all red.

I always get a kick out of the rationalization that education (or money
spent on it) ?automatically implies"smartness" in people.
There's a lot of stupid people with years of advanced degrees, just as there
are many "smart" people with limited education.

Eisboch

I agree with you entirely.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

Which, by the way, was a valid claim.
--
John H

On Feb 10, 12:06�pm, John H.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

Which, by the way, was a valid claim.
--

Then according to your theory, the states with the greatest numbers of
Republicans will be those states with the most successful and
comprehensive educational systems. By the same token, the states with
the smallest number of Republicans will be those states where the
Democrats have succeeded on destroying the education system and
thereby protecting their base.

Care to offer some examples? Half a dozen or so of each would be
sufficient to establish a trend, rather than an exception.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:23:55 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:06?pm, John H.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

Which, by the way, was a valid claim.
--

Then according to your theory, the states with the greatest numbers of
Republicans will be those states with the most successful and
comprehensive educational systems. By the same token, the states with
the smallest number of Republicans will be those states where the
Democrats have succeeded on destroying the education system and
thereby protecting their base.

Care to offer some examples? Half a dozen or so of each would be
sufficient to establish a trend, rather than an exception.



Education isn't a statewide function anywhere that I know of. It's a county
or city function normally.

How do Los Angeles, New York City, and Washington DC do for areas where the
base is protected?
--
John H

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:16:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:23:55 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:06?pm, John H.
The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.
Which, by the way, was a valid claim.
--
Then according to your theory, the states with the greatest numbers of
Republicans will be those states with the most successful and
comprehensive educational systems. By the same token, the states with
the smallest number of Republicans will be those states where the
Democrats have succeeded on destroying the education system and
thereby protecting their base.

Care to offer some examples? Half a dozen or so of each would be
sufficient to establish a trend, rather than an exception.


Education isn't a statewide function anywhere that I know of. It's a county
or city function normally.

Unbelievable.

And you used to teach? Who certified you - Wal-Mart?


Herring worked as a substitute teacher. The qualifications for a
substitute teacher in Alexandra, Virginia, where Herring lives, are minimal:

* at least 60 hours of college coursework
* evidence of a negative tuberculin test (or chest x-ray)
* a completed online application
* attend an orientation session (see below)
* criminal background check — at the orientation session, you will
schedule an appointment to return for fingerprinting (the cost to the
applicant is $42)

That's it. No certification. Any idiot can sub teach. That would include
Herring.

The Virginia Department of Education is intimately involved in
educational programming and standards in that state.

You may recall that while he worked as a sub, Herring whined extensively
and repeatedly about the students placed in his charge. These were
mainly minority kids, if memory serves. He was unable to motivate them,
as a properly trained teacher might. Perhaps they didn't respond to his
"Army" ways.

Herring has also had problems with the Latinos living down the street
from him.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:52:14 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:16:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:23:55 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:06?pm, John H.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

Which, by the way, was a valid claim.
--

Then according to your theory, the states with the greatest numbers of
Republicans will be those states with the most successful and
comprehensive educational systems. By the same token, the states with
the smallest number of Republicans will be those states where the
Democrats have succeeded on destroying the education system and
thereby protecting their base.

Care to offer some examples? Half a dozen or so of each would be
sufficient to establish a trend, rather than an exception.



Education isn't a statewide function anywhere that I know of. It's a county
or city function normally.

Unbelievable.

And you used to teach? Who certified you - Wal-Mart?

JimH's argument methods...cut what you don't like and make comments about
the rest.

I was certified by the state of Virginia, Tom.
--
John H

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:07:15 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 9:15?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:06:06 -0800, Chuck Gould wrote:

Compare the average level of educational achievement on, say, the
left
coast with the average education in customarily red states like
Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri. Then reevaluate. Thanks.

It's worse than that:

http://www.thebluestate.com/2005/10/...06_smarte.html

Note, the 21 states that spend the least on education, are all red.

I always get a kick out of the rationalization that education (or money
spent on it) ?automatically implies"smartness" in people.
There's a lot of stupid people with years of advanced degrees, just as
there
are many "smart" people with limited education.

Eisboch

I agree with you entirely.

The basis for even considering education in the discussion was a claim
that D's oppose "No Child Left Behind", and thaty they do so because
if the amount of education were increased across the country the
number of people supporting the D's would decrease.

Talk to middle and high school teachers about NCLB and see what they
say about the system.

It's a total disaster. And in states that require mainstreaming of
those children who are developmentally, physically, mentally or
emotionally "challenged", it's almost impossible to achieve the
standards required by NCLB.

So what's the solution? In MA and CT, it's teach the mastery test.
Simple as that.

There is a huge hole in this article as well.

Look at the states that spend the least (in order): Utah, Arizona,
Arkansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Tennessee, Idaho, North Carolina,
Alabama -- and I still have not reached a blue state yet. I'll keep
going: North Dakota, Florida, Nevada, Texas, New Mexico, Missouri,
Iowa, Louisiana, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Kentucky, and then
finally California. The 21 states that spend the least amount on
education dollars per student are all red.

Let's take this state-by-state - these "red" states using state
legislatures as our guide.

Utah -Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
Arizona - Gov/D - Senate/R - House/R - red
Arkansas - Gov/D - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Oklahoma - Gov/D - Senate/D - House/R - blue
Mississippi - Gov/R - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Tennessee - Gov/D - Senate/R - House/D - blue
Idaho - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
North Carolina - Gov/D - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Alabama - Gov/R - Senate/D - House/D - blue
North Dakota - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
Florida - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
Nevada - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/D - red
Texas - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
New Mexico - Gov/D - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Missouri - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
Iowa - Gov/D - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Louisiana - Gov/R - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Kansas - Gov/D - Senate/R - House/R - red
Nebraska - Gov/R - Unicameral Legislature/R - red
South Dakota - Gov/R - Senate/R - House/R - red
Kentucky - Gov/D - Senate/R - House/D - blue
California - Gov/R - Senate/D - House/D - blue

11 state governments are predominately Republican, 10 are
predominately Democratic.

Move on to Federal level.

Utah -Senate/R - House/R - red
Arizona - Senate/R - House/split - red
Arkansas - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Oklahoma - Senate/R - House/R - red
Mississippi - Senate/R - House/split - red
Tennessee - Senate/R - House/D - push
Idaho - Senate/R - House/R - red
North Carolina - Senate/R - House/D - push
Alabama - Senate/R - House/R - red
North Dakota - Senate/D - House/D - blue
Florida - Senate/Split - House/R - red
Nevada - Senate/Split - House/R - red
Texas - Senate/R - House/R - red
New Mexico - Senate/Split - House/R - red
Missouri - Senate/Split - House/R - red
Iowa - Senate/Split - House/D - blue
Louisiana - Senate/Split - House/R - red
Kansas - Senate/R - House/Split - red
Nebraska - Senate/Split - House/R - red
South Dakota - Senate/Split - House/D - blue
Kentucky - Senate/R - House/Split - red
California - Senate/D - House/D - blue

15 states with predominately Republican Senate/House combinations, 4
states with predominately Democratic combinations and two push.

So, any way you want to look at it, all of these states can't be
called "red" in any sense of the word. It's a very distorted view
presented for a particular purpose.

And how he could possibly call California "red" is completely beyond
me.

Easy. Communist.

On Feb 10, 12:25�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing

Talk to middle and high school teachers about NCLB and see what they
say about the system.

It's a total disaster. �And in states that require mainstreaming of
those children who are developmentally, physically, mentally or
emotionally "challenged", it's almost impossible to achieve the
standards required by NCLB.


Both of my kids are teaching in the classroom. My son (HS Social
Studies) as a career and my daughter (MS Science) as a step toward
eventually becoming a school administrator.

The have been some positive aspects of the NCLB. For instance,
teachers must demonstrate a level of expertise in the subjec they
teach. The schools can't simply hire a guy because he's a great
football coach and then say, "Oh, yeah...and you'll be teaching two
periods of astronomy every morning so better read a chapter or two
ahead of the students in the text book. Oh, and next semester you'll
be teaching advanced trig, but don't worry about that- nobody will
understand the subject well enought to realize you have no facility
what-so-ever for math."

But in general, the system is not so good. Far too many districts are
strictly "teaching to the test". My son has several classes of HS
freshmen who are spending the entire 9th grade simply studying to pas
the 10th grade NCLB test- it's that critical to the district that
nearly all the 10th graders pass so that the district will continue to
get federal school dollars.