On Jan 12, 7:43*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:26 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:

He's just a stupid drunk. Anyone who has dealt with an alcoholic knows
that. Just hoping the OP knows that he can actually get good info here
if he just ignores him...
You're the one who seems to PUI. You know, post under the influence.

--
George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever!

Heh, I was going to mention that the other troll would be along
soon

Note to the origional poster if you are still he We are a pretty
good group, really there are only two in the whole group who jump in
with no info, trying to troll conversations into the ground and steer
folks the wrong way intentionally... Both have posted to this thread,
I will leave it to you to figure out who they are

I have the turds known as Reggie and Dan blocked.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whatever..

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

There are two ways to look at this.

Riveted aluminum boats tend to be sounder than welded boats and as a
general rule, easier to repair. The better aluminum boats, like Lund,
Starcraft, Princecraft, are riveted boats. The trick is to seal the
seam and double rivet. Lund pretty much invented that process and to
tell the truth, it was a complete revolution in how a quality aluminum
boat should be made - a lot of other aluminum boat manufacturers use
this technique to varying degrees with the three I mentioned being the
best.

With a riveted boat, the secret is how large the overlap is for the
riveted panels - the more area, the more sealer, the more rivets for
strength.

Welded hulls have improved tremendously over the years. A lot of the
cheaper boats do have welds that look like globs of excess metal, but
you are dealing wtih aluminum and thin aluminum at that - even
experienced welders have trouble getting a good weld on thin aluminum.
Now, most manufacturers use formed and pressed panels which are then
welded precisely with robots with little excess. They also use lower
temperature welding gear which helps.

Dollar-for-dollar, I prefer riveted aluminum boats. I had a 16 foot
Lund open guide boat in 1978 that I sold to a friend who still uses it
for duck hunting and it's as dry and sound as the day I sold it. By
comparison, I owned a Bass Cat aluminum bass boat that was welded and
it warped, leaked and in general sucked - I sold it back to the
company six months after I bought it. (Which, by the way, speaks
volumes for what a quality operation Bass Cat is - they were aware of
the problems, tried to fix them and when they coulnd't, gave me my
money back without me even having to ask for it. I can't say enough
good things about Bass Cat and their ownership.)

Take it for what you will.

Good luck.

wrote in message
...
Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks

I too have been going through the throws of choices. But I also originally
included fibreglass as well. But down to aluminium as I write. So weld or
rivets?

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets

Having a few less pounds of boat isn't a big deal. Cheap is ok, but does it
make a good boat? Thermal expansion? Don't see boats going from 100F
to -20F with a 35,000 foot air pressure change. Finally, don't see you
removing a bottom quarter to get access for repair. The sum of it is, what
applies to planes is irrelevant to boats for the most part. And by the way,
planes also use welds!

Salespeople are almost always bull of BS. In any case do your research
independently.

I compared a Lund, G3 and a Weldcraft. My review of each compared to the
other. All three were in the 17' fishing type/range.

Lund, nice options, nice to look at. Lots of features. Large gunwales, I
like. Reasonably sturdy, pricy.

G3, similar looking to the Lund with similar options but a little "cheaper"
feeling than the Lund. Probably the small gunwales and floor flex did me
in. But not as pricy.

Weldcraft. That seemed like rugged welded boat. If you wife sees a 5 foot
log up lake she likes, in the other two boats you would want to talk her out
of it. With the Weldcraft I looked at, I wouldn't even blink if it rolled
up against the console.

Welded boats seem heavier and sturdier. Near as I can tell, they also tend
towards a heavier gauge of sheet stock. A 1 foot weld or a double seam of
20 rivets, weld is going to weigh in more. More weight to tow, but hitting
a 2 foot wave, the sturdy weight might help for a nicer ride.

I looked for speed comparison information and could not find any. Does the
protrusion of rivets below the water drag worse than the weight comparison?
Don't know.

Quality of welds, there are lots of information on the web, aluminium
welding is not as simple as steel. But a uniform set of waves that nicely
blend into both sides without pits and anomalies is good. On the Weldcraft
I looked at they looked good.

Have I decided, no.

And if a boat manufacture reads this. No, I don't want a CD player to go
fishing. I want to hear the loons and the ducks. Maybe hear a beaver flip.

Are other opinions welcome, yes.

Don White wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks

I own a Lund, and the company makes a big selling point of the fact that
their aluminum hulls are double riveted. Welding is not mentioned anywhere
in their literature, as far as I've noticed. I've been beating the crap
out of the boat since 1999 and it's as tight as the day it was new.

www.lundboats.com


Same with Princecraft. hulls rivited...same as high stress airplane
bodies.
scroll down to... 'proven fastening methods'
http://www.princecraft.com/Content/e...ing_boats.aspx



Airplanes aren't designed for the water, bozo.

Nice job emulating Harry...If you own it, it's the BEST!

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 01:20:28 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

G3, similar looking to the Lund with similar options but a little "cheaper"
feeling than the Lund. Probably the small gunwales and floor flex did me
in. But not as pricy.

I know guys how own G3s and the one comment they have in common is
that the boats flex under power.

That's not a good thing.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:30:21 -0500, Dan
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks

I own a Lund, and the company makes a big selling point of the fact that
their aluminum hulls are double riveted. Welding is not mentioned anywhere
in their literature, as far as I've noticed. I've been beating the crap
out of the boat since 1999 and it's as tight as the day it was new.

www.lundboats.com


Same with Princecraft. hulls rivited...same as high stress airplane
bodies.
scroll down to... 'proven fastening methods'
http://www.princecraft.com/Content/e...ing_boats.aspx

Airplanes aren't designed for the water, bozo.

Nice job emulating Harry...If you own it, it's the BEST!

I owned it before Don did.

Want to call me a Bozo?

wrote in message
...
On Jan 12, 6:56 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 12, 2:32 pm, wrote:





On Jan 11, 9:02 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 8:34 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

wrote in message

...

Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i
am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years
to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far
as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my
son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of
the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right
now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks

I own a Lund, and the company makes a big selling point of the fact
that
their aluminum hulls are double riveted. Welding is not mentioned
anywhere
in their literature, as far as I've noticed. I've been beating the
crap
out
of the boat since 1999 and it's as tight as the day it was new.

www.lundboats.com

Thanks for the feedback
I appreciate your coment about rivetted boats but my wife said noway
to riveted boats, he dad had one and it always leaked. Infact you
should have seen the dirty looks she gave one of the salesman when he
was trying to sale us on a riveted boat. What would you look for or
like to see as far as welds?

================

I have no idea what to look for with welds. Tell your wife that her
dad
bought a ****ty boat, and she should not judge all riveted boats based
on
her father's bad judgement and low budget. If she's such a shmexpert,
maybe
she should be designing boats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would appreciate it if you didn't talk about her that way. You
don't know her.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hopefully you don't judge our group by Joe. I don't even think he
owns a boat;(

A rivet leaking Lund. May not be leaking now, but eventually a rivet will
leak.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's just a stupid drunk. Anyone who has dealt with an alcoholic knows
that. Just hoping the OP knows that he can actually get good info here
if he just ignores him...

============


Who told you to say that?

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:30:21 -0500, Dan
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks
I own a Lund, and the company makes a big selling point of the fact that
their aluminum hulls are double riveted. Welding is not mentioned anywhere
in their literature, as far as I've noticed. I've been beating the crap
out of the boat since 1999 and it's as tight as the day it was new.

www.lundboats.com

Same with Princecraft. hulls rivited...same as high stress airplane
bodies.
scroll down to... 'proven fastening methods'
http://www.princecraft.com/Content/e...ing_boats.aspx
Airplanes aren't designed for the water, bozo.

Nice job emulating Harry...If you own it, it's the BEST!

I owned it before Don did.

Want to call me a Bozo?

Did you ever say "Same with Princecraft. hulls rivited...same as high
stress airplane bodies."?

I'll call you whatever you want but this has nothing to do with the
specific boat you owned.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the sheets
are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is prone to
cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to other metals.
Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the crystalline
structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give it
credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's quite
a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Eisboch

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Riveted aluminum boats tend to be sounder than welded boats and as a
general rule, easier to repair. The better aluminum boats, like Lund,
Starcraft, Princecraft, are riveted boats.

Um... Are you at all familiar with the type of heavy duty
welded aluminum boats the poster inquired about?

For example:

http://www.precisionweldboats.com/

http://www.weldcraftmarine.com/

http://www.duckworthboats.com/

http://www.roguejet.com/

http://www.customweld.com/

http://www.thunderjet.com/

http://www.motionmarine.com/

http://www.hewescraft.com/

http://www.fish-rite.com/boats.html

http://www.northriverboats.com/

etc.

As to the original question I'm no welding expert but I did
examine a lot of boats before buying one. I liked the neat
consistency and smoothness found in the North River and many
others with a few notable exceptions (this was 8 years ago).
I've had some major rock hits since then and only required
one repair for a crack at the jet-pump intake seam. The
..25" bottom thickness helps.

I do see a lot Hewescraft on the Columbia river lately for
what it's worth.