"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:yhvij.61683$EA5.61072@pd7urf2no...

"-rick-" wrote in message
news
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Riveted aluminum boats tend to be sounder than welded boats and as a
general rule, easier to repair. The better aluminum boats, like Lund,
Starcraft, Princecraft, are riveted boats.

Um... Are you at all familiar with the type of heavy duty welded aluminum
boats the poster inquired about?

For example:

http://www.precisionweldboats.com/

http://www.weldcraftmarine.com/

http://www.duckworthboats.com/

http://www.roguejet.com/

http://www.customweld.com/

http://www.thunderjet.com/

http://www.motionmarine.com/

http://www.hewescraft.com/

http://www.fish-rite.com/boats.html

http://www.northriverboats.com/

etc.

As to the original question I'm no welding expert but I did examine a lot
of boats before buying one. I liked the neat consistency and smoothness
found in the North River and many others with a few notable exceptions
(this was 8 years ago). I've had some major rock hits since then and only
required one repair for a crack at the jet-pump intake seam. The .25"
bottom thickness helps.

I do see a lot Hewescraft on the Columbia river lately for what it's
worth.

0.25 on the bottom, don't have to worry about hull damage if you park in a
mess of logs. Going to take a look at Hewescraft.


Actually the 3/16 does logs fine.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:yhvij.61683$EA5.61072@pd7urf2no...

"-rick-" wrote in message
news
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Riveted aluminum boats tend to be sounder than welded boats and as a
general rule, easier to repair. The better aluminum boats, like Lund,
Starcraft, Princecraft, are riveted boats.

Um... Are you at all familiar with the type of heavy duty welded
aluminum boats the poster inquired about?

For example:

http://www.precisionweldboats.com/

http://www.weldcraftmarine.com/

http://www.duckworthboats.com/

http://www.roguejet.com/

http://www.customweld.com/

http://www.thunderjet.com/

http://www.motionmarine.com/

http://www.hewescraft.com/

http://www.fish-rite.com/boats.html

http://www.northriverboats.com/

etc.

As to the original question I'm no welding expert but I did examine a
lot of boats before buying one. I liked the neat consistency and
smoothness found in the North River and many others with a few notable
exceptions (this was 8 years ago). I've had some major rock hits since
then and only required one repair for a crack at the jet-pump intake
seam. The .25" bottom thickness helps.

I do see a lot Hewescraft on the Columbia river lately for what it's
worth.

0.25 on the bottom, don't have to worry about hull damage if you park in
a mess of logs. Going to take a look at Hewescraft.


Actually the 3/16 does logs fine.

Sure better than 0.090 or 0.100.

Went fishing once in a tin can on a lake in the middle of Wisconsin,
Tomahawk I think. Found a large bay, and said this water does not look
right and slowed down. I was right, found out later why too. In the winter
if it freezes they dump stumps and logs into it for bass and it would be
like a mine field if you hit that with much more than adrift speed.

Needless to say, I took the tin in and had a gas. Lost count on how many
small mouth bass I nailed that day. But you could hear the aluminium flex
when you tapped one.

A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work.

wrote in message
...
Finally going to make the plunge and buy an aluminum boat, but i am
confused. Our goal is to buy a boat that will last for many years to
come and also turn heads when on the water. The more i talk to
salesman the more BS i hear. What should i be looking for as far as
the quality of the welds, some look like art and some look like my son
who is 12 tried to weld for the first time. Does the apperance of the
weld matter? We are looking at a 200 Sea Runner Hewes Craft right now,
any comments would help at this point

Thanks

I too have been going through the throws of choices. But I also originally
included fibreglass as well. But down to aluminium as I write. So weld or
rivets?

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets

Having a few less pounds of boat isn't a big deal. Cheap is ok, but does it
make a good boat? Thermal expansion? Don't see boats going from 100F
to -20F with a 35,000 foot air pressure change. Finally, don't see you
removing a bottom quarter to get access for repair. The sum of it is, what
applies to planes is irrelevant to boats for the most part. And by the way,
planes also use welds!

Salespeople are almost always bull of BS. In any case do your research
independently.

I compared a Lund, G3 and a Weldcraft. My review of each compared to the
other. All three were in the 17' fishing type/range.

Lund, nice options, nice to look at. Lots of features. Large gunwales, I
like. Reasonably sturdy, pricy.

G3, similar looking to the Lund with similar options but a little "cheaper"
feeling than the Lund. Probably the small gunwales and floor flex did me
in. But not as pricy.

Weldcraft. That seemed like rugged welded boat. If you wife sees a 5 foot
log up lake she likes, in the other two boats you would want to talk her out
of it. With the Weldcraft I looked at, I wouldn't even blink if it rolled
up against the console.

Welded boats seem heavier and sturdier. Near as I can tell, they also tend
towards a heavier gauge of sheet stock. A 1 foot weld or a double seam of
20 rivets, weld is going to weigh in more. More weight to tow, but hitting
a 2 foot wave, the sturdy weight might help for a nicer ride.

I looked for speed comparison information and could not find any. Does the
protrusion of rivets below the water drag worse than the weight comparison?
Don't know.

Quality of welds, there are lots of information on the web, aluminium
welding is not as simple as steel. But a uniform set of waves that nicely
blend into both sides without pits and anomalies is good. On the Weldcraft
I looked at they looked good.

Have I decided, no.

And if a boat manufacture reads this. No, I don't want a CD player to go
fishing. I want to hear the loons and the ducks. Maybe hear a beaver flip.

Are other opinions welcome, yes.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 01:20:28 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

G3, similar looking to the Lund with similar options but a little "cheaper"
feeling than the Lund. Probably the small gunwales and floor flex did me
in. But not as pricy.

I know guys how own G3s and the one comment they have in common is
that the boats flex under power.

That's not a good thing.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the sheets
are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is prone to
cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to other metals.
Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the crystalline
structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give it
credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's quite
a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Eisboch

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:39:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the sheets
are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is prone to
cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to other metals.
Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the crystalline
structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give it
credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's quite
a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Thnk B-52. :)

I read somewhere that the wing of the B-52 flex up to six feet from
wing root to tip.

Can't verify that.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:39:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the
sheets
are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is prone to
cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to other metals.
Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the crystalline
structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give
it
credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's
quite
a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Thnk B-52. :)

I read somewhere that the wing of the B-52 flex up to six feet from
wing root to tip.

Can't verify that.

I would say six feet at least. Even the wings on commercial airplane like
the 767s and 747s flex close to that at takeoff and in heavy turbulence.

Eisboch

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news

I read somewhere that the wing of the B-52 flex up to six feet from
wing root to tip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95FT_DQy53E

Eisboch

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:39:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the
sheets
are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is prone to
cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to other metals.
Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the crystalline
structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give
it
credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's
quite
a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Thnk B-52. :)

I read somewhere that the wing of the B-52 flex up to six feet from
wing root to tip.

Can't verify that.

The flex a lot more than that. Is why there are wheels at the outer part of
the wing. Seems like it was 15-16' normal flex.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:wHdij.60275$EA5.19428@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...

First, rivets are used on aircraft for the following reasons, not all of
value on a boat:

- low weight per attached foot of seam than welding
- cheap and manufacturing ease of use
- thermal expansion and flex
- can be drilled out for access/repair/inspection
- welding is more expensive per attached foot than rivets


Are other opinions welcome, yes.

I think aluminum welds are fine as long as they are reinforced or the
sheets are relatively thick. Thin sheet (seam) welding of aluminum is
prone to cracking when subjected to even a little flex as compared to
other metals. Maybe someone with knowledge of metallurgy can explain the
crystalline structure, etc. My opinion is based on experience in
industry.

BTW, I think flex is much more important in airplane wings than you give
it credit for. Next time you fly, note the location of a wing tip as the
airplane begins it's take-off run and watch it as you become airborne.
While flying in turbulence, watch the tip of the wing again. There's
quite a bit of wobbling around going on out there. Welded aluminum panels
wouldn't last long, nor would the wings if they were designed to be stiff
rather than being allowed to flex.

Eisboch

But my point being, do you want that much flex on a 17-19' boat?

I would think not. But on an aircraft, this is good. The wings are in
effect shock absorbers for up/down drafts and air density changes. But I
don't think this level of flex is needed nor desirable on a small boat.