Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
.. .

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

“The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:43:28 -0500, HK wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Why would "the liberal base" be interested in a simple-minded,
uninformed right-wing Christian rube as president?

See my reply to Doug.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
. ..

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

"The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?


Not sure. Has Obama been endorsed by right wing religious extremists with a
history of meddling directly in government? I've heard Iran is a beautiful
country, but I don't want this country to operate the ways theirs does at
the moment. I don't like theocracies.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:


I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.

Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:44:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

"The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?

Not sure. Has Obama been endorsed by right wing religious extremists with a
history of meddling directly in government? I've heard Iran is a beautiful
country, but I don't want this country to operate the ways theirs does at
the moment. I don't like theocracies.

Exactly as I expected.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:


I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.

Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?


You mean, as opposed to someone who is just waving the god flag to garner
votes? Or, am I being too cynical?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:44:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
m...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

"The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?

Not sure. Has Obama been endorsed by right wing religious extremists with
a
history of meddling directly in government? I've heard Iran is a beautiful
country, but I don't want this country to operate the ways theirs does at
the moment. I don't like theocracies.

Exactly as I expected.


I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved with
government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight answer
to that question.

Let's disconnect religion from god for a moment and talk about the Brady
Bunch, another group of religious fanatics. Like certain god sects, they
also think they have the right to determine how everyone should live
(gun-less). I'm sure you don't like the Brady religion, right?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:39:13 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


Huckabee says he's never had a beer.

I have a friend, Vietnam chopper pilot who was shot down 4 times, and
recently retired from the NYPD. He also says he has never drank an
alcoholic beverage. It's unusual, but I believe him and see no reason
not to believe Huckabee.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.
Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

“The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?


I don't have any problems with churches taking to heart the concept of
liberation theology and putting into practice the goals of improving the
lives of those it touches.

Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

It doesn't bother me at all that Obama is a "Christian," and that most
if not all of the other candidates are, too. I am only distressed when
politicians shovel their religions at me, or use it as a crutch to avoid
science or common sense.

--
George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever!

Handicapping Iowa...
 

When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?



Surely you are not addressing that question to Bertie (BAR)?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Surely you are not addressing that question to Bertie (BAR)?


Oops. Accidentally erased the target: Captain T.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?
Surely you are not addressing that question to Bertie (BAR)?


Oops. Accidentally erased the target: Captain T.



Surely Tom has read the Seven Storey Mountain.

BAR gave up on Page 3 of the comic book edition.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:06:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Gee - I'd have to think about that.

I read "Seven Story Mountain" first in high school, then again in
college along with "Sign of Jonas" during a two semester course in
Comparative Theology (oddly, both of my best friends were so moved by
Merton's work that they decided to join the religious life - one is a
Methodist minister and the other a Franciscan Priest) - say 35 years
or so +/-.

Why?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:06:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Gee - I'd have to think about that.

I read "Seven Story Mountain" first in high school, then again in
college along with "Sign of Jonas" during a two semester course in
Comparative Theology (oddly, both of my best friends were so moved by
Merton's work that they decided to join the religious life - one is a
Methodist minister and the other a Franciscan Priest) - say 35 years
or so +/-.

Why?



:}


Inside joke. Almost.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:06:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Gee - I'd have to think about that.

I read "Seven Story Mountain" first in high school, then again in
college along with "Sign of Jonas" during a two semester course in
Comparative Theology (oddly, both of my best friends were so moved by
Merton's work that they decided to join the religious life - one is a
Methodist minister and the other a Franciscan Priest) - say 35 years
or so +/-.

Why?


I wondered if you noticed something interesting about Merton. He was a great
example of how religion should be done: with modesty. It's like a dog. Keep
it on your own property and don't let it bark incessantly at people who are
just minding their own business.

Here's another example:

www.bhphotovideo.com, during certain hours of the weekend.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:42:20 -0500, HK wrote:



BTW, I've never seen an entire Chuck Norris movie, either. I've seen
bits and pieces of several while channel flipping, and what I saw was a
pretty bad actor in pretty bad movies.

I watched the one filmed in Chicago the whole way through, trying to
pick out locations. These guy were acting like Norris movies were so
beneath them they never even ran across them. VCR's/DVD's, Norris,
family and friends make that damn near impossible. There's a chance
they just didn't want to knock Norris movies, but that's not how they
came across.

For martial arts, I prefer Bruce Lee, and any number of Japanese or
Chinese movies.

I enjoyed some of the early Seagal stuff. Before he started looking
and moving like a corpse. Van Damme, who my son calls Slam Ham
did some decent stuff. Jackie Chan is funny.
I can take it or leave it.

--Vic

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

I'm paraphrasing here because I can't get the exact quote at the
moment - mainly because the book is in the living room and I'm still
sore from falling on my tushie yesterday (damn ice) and don't want to
walk that far - he said: If I didn't know any better, I'd have to
believe that somebody is playing a giant cosmic joke on us because the
closer we come, the further we are from defining ourselves and our
universal environment.

You have a 'tushie'?

If there is/was a creator god it sure appears to have a
strange sense of humor.
:)

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:59:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved with
government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight answer
to that question.

Well, that's an interesting question if only because there isn't a
"straight" answer - or at least one that you will find sufficiently
acceptable just because of who you are.

If you mean in the sense that government (or the State) should never
put itself in the position advancing or promoting one religion over
another, then I would agree.

If you mean using religious or faith based argument as a basis for
forming policy, then I would not agree. There is a place for faith
based argument just as there is a place for secular based argument.
The State has to consider all sides of the discussion, not just one
side in forming it's decisions or policies. If one side or the other
prevails in those discussions, that's how the system works.

While secularists don't like to admit it, we are largely a Christian
nation - or at least most Americans will identify themselves as such.

Let's disconnect religion from god for a moment and talk about the Brady
Bunch, another group of religious fanatics. Like certain god sects, they
also think they have the right to determine how everyone should live
(gun-less). I'm sure you don't like the Brady religion, right?

Secularists in general believe they have the right to tell everyone
else how to live. As do those steeped in religious thought. The very
fact that government exists to tell us what to do and how to behave is
necessary to organized society.

What's your point?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006


So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling
religion, and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:09:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006

So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling
religion, and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.

Again, I am blinded by your ability to rationalize.

It's an incredible talent - you missed your calling, you should have
taken up the religious life. Probably would be Pope by now if you had
been Catholic. :)

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:09:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.
"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006
So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling
religion, and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.

Again, I am blinded by your ability to rationalize.

It's an incredible talent - you missed your calling, you should have
taken up the religious life. Probably would be Pope by now if you had
been Catholic. :)


Pope Harry?

Sorry, I don't believe this country can endure another naive simpleton
in the White House after eight years of Bush, and to me, Huckabee, nice
as he is (and I do think he is a swell fella) knows no more about the
world than Bush did when he presumed his office.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

JimH wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:09:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.
"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. - indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006
So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling
religion, and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.
Again, I am blinded by your ability to rationalize.

It's an incredible talent - you missed your calling, you should have
taken up the religious life. Probably would be Pope by now if you had
been Catholic. :)

Reggie has the same talent. Perhaps the 2 of them could go into politics.
;-)




Reggie has too wide a stance.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:06:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

When's the last time you read anything by Thomas Merton?

Gee - I'd have to think about that.

I read "Seven Story Mountain" first in high school, then again in
college along with "Sign of Jonas" during a two semester course in
Comparative Theology (oddly, both of my best friends were so moved by
Merton's work that they decided to join the religious life - one is a
Methodist minister and the other a Franciscan Priest) - say 35 years
or so +/-.

Why?

I wondered if you noticed something interesting about Merton. He was a great
example of how religion should be done: with modesty. It's like a dog. Keep
it on your own property and don't let it bark incessantly at people who are
just minding their own business.

Well, we have some common ground at least. I am not one who
appreciates proselytizing be it religious or political.

It's a valid point - lead by example.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:42:20 -0500, HK wrote:



BTW, I've never seen an entire Chuck Norris movie, either. I've seen
bits and pieces of several while channel flipping, and what I saw was a
pretty bad actor in pretty bad movies.

I watched the one filmed in Chicago the whole way through, trying to
pick out locations. These guy were acting like Norris movies were so
beneath them they never even ran across them. VCR's/DVD's, Norris,
family and friends make that damn near impossible. There's a chance
they just didn't want to knock Norris movies, but that's not how they
came across.

For martial arts, I prefer Bruce Lee, and any number of Japanese or
Chinese movies.

I enjoyed some of the early Seagal stuff. Before he started looking
and moving like a corpse. Van Damme, who my son calls Slam Ham
did some decent stuff. Jackie Chan is funny.
I can take it or leave it.

--Vic

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:42:20 -0500, HK wrote:



BTW, I've never seen an entire Chuck Norris movie, either. I've seen
bits and pieces of several while channel flipping, and what I saw was a
pretty bad actor in pretty bad movies.

I watched the one filmed in Chicago the whole way through, trying to
pick out locations. These guy were acting like Norris movies were so
beneath them they never even ran across them. VCR's/DVD's, Norris,
family and friends make that damn near impossible. There's a chance
they just didn't want to knock Norris movies, but that's not how they
came across.

For martial arts, I prefer Bruce Lee, and any number of Japanese or
Chinese movies.

I enjoyed some of the early Seagal stuff. Before he started looking
and moving like a corpse. Van Damme, who my son calls Slam Ham
did some decent stuff. Jackie Chan is funny.
I can take it or leave it.

--Vic

What's not to like about Chuck Norris movies. Lots of action, lots of
explosions. Good guy movie. No Jeff Gordon movie. Seagal was good, before
he decided he could write and direct movies. Van Damme, movies. Just SUX.
Jackie Chan is a good comedian. And I like good comedians.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 18:39:54 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:




What's not to like about Chuck Norris movies. Lots of action, lots of
explosions. Good guy movie. No Jeff Gordon movie. Seagal was good, before
he decided he could write and direct movies. Van Damme, movies. Just SUX.
Jackie Chan is a good comedian. And I like good comedians.

Hey, Van Damme always had a naked butt scene and the girls in the
house must have found it titillating.
IMO, just about any episode of the "A-Team" had more good stuff than a
Norris movie. Peppard saying "I love it when a plan comes together"
displayed more acting talent than the entire cast of a Norris movie
saying all their lines. But maybe I wasn't paying close attention.

--Vic

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:02:32 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 18:39:54 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:




What's not to like about Chuck Norris movies. Lots of action, lots of
explosions. Good guy movie. No Jeff Gordon movie. Seagal was good, before
he decided he could write and direct movies. Van Damme, movies. Just SUX.
Jackie Chan is a good comedian. And I like good comedians.

Hey, Van Damme always had a naked butt scene and the girls in the
house must have found it titillating.
IMO, just about any episode of the "A-Team" had more good stuff than a
Norris movie. Peppard saying "I love it when a plan comes together"
displayed more acting talent than the entire cast of a Norris movie
saying all their lines. But maybe I wasn't paying close attention

"I pity the fool"

Loved the A Team.

If they were going to reimage or remake a TV show into a movie, The A
Team would be one of my candidates.

As for kung fu movies - I like the cheap, cheesy Chinese ones made in
Taiwan or Hong Kong.

Damn movies are hysterically funny.

Sort of related - one of my favorite movies - tied for # one with
three others - "Big Trouble in Little China".

Favorite quote: "Okay, I get the picture White Tigers, Lords of Death,
guys in funny suits throwing plastic explosives while poison arrows
fall from the sky and the pillars of heaven shake, huh? Sure, okay, I
see Charlie Chan, Fu Manchu and a hundred howlin' monkey temples, and
that's just for starters, right? Fine! I'm ready, goddammit let me at
'em!"

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:59:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved with
government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight answer
to that question.

Well, that's an interesting question if only because there isn't a
"straight" answer - or at least one that you will find sufficiently
acceptable just because of who you are.

If you mean in the sense that government (or the State) should never
put itself in the position advancing or promoting one religion over
another, then I would agree.

If you mean using religious or faith based argument as a basis for
forming policy, then I would not agree. There is a place for faith
based argument just as there is a place for secular based argument.
The State has to consider all sides of the discussion, not just one
side in forming it's decisions or policies. If one side or the other
prevails in those discussions, that's how the system works.

While secularists don't like to admit it, we are largely a Christian
nation - or at least most Americans will identify themselves as such.

Let's disconnect religion from god for a moment and talk about the Brady
Bunch, another group of religious fanatics. Like certain god sects, they
also think they have the right to determine how everyone should live
(gun-less). I'm sure you don't like the Brady religion, right?

Secularists in general believe they have the right to tell everyone
else how to live. As do those steeped in religious thought. The very
fact that government exists to tell us what to do and how to behave is
necessary to organized society.

What's your point?


The point is that you probably don't want the Brady Bunch meddling with
government. Why would you give the benefit of the doubt to religious
extremists? Do they get special privileges because they believe in a deity?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. - indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006


Let's debate this: Without the ten commandments, absolutely nobody would
know that murder is wrong.

Nobody. No exceptions. Period.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:12:09 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

"I pity the fool"

Mr-T. Had to drug him unconscious to get him on the flight.
The Face
Shultz
Colonel Smith
That's the A-Team
Cannell did some real good stuff.

Loved the A Team.

If they were going to reimage or remake a TV show into a movie, The A
Team would be one of my candidates.

As for kung fu movies - I like the cheap, cheesy Chinese ones made in
Taiwan or Hong Kong.

Damn movies are hysterically funny.

Sort of related - one of my favorite movies - tied for # one with
three others - "Big Trouble in Little China".

Favorite quote: "Okay, I get the picture White Tigers, Lords of Death,
guys in funny suits throwing plastic explosives while poison arrows
fall from the sky and the pillars of heaven shake, huh? Sure, okay, I
see Charlie Chan, Fu Manchu and a hundred howlin' monkey temples, and
that's just for starters, right? Fine! I'm ready, goddammit let me at
'em!"

Saw it once, but it was commercial TV, so it was "spotty."
I'll put it on the Netflix list, which BTW finally came through with
Army of Darkness, your recommendation a while back.
Excellent! Shall I say "off the wall?"

--Vic

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Chuck's movies are intended as comedy.

Thug: You don't belong here.
Chuck: If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you.


For martial arts, I prefer Bruce Lee, and any number of Japanese or
Chinese movies.


You're spending too much time with old people. Tony Jaa is now the
reigning king.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M__9ZmCFNeU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJ5s...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aZaE...eature=related

I've only seen a couple in the last few years. I prefer the "mystical"
martial arts movies...Crouching Tiger or one whose name escapes me at the
moment. I did like Fist of Legend (Jet Li) and of course Fist of Legend,
with the master, Bruce Lee.


Is that the one that's dubbed in English?

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.


Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Why would "the liberal base" be interested in a simple-minded, uninformed
right-wing Christian rube as president?


Oh, Lorrdy, 2009 is going to be an interesting year in wrecked.boats.

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.


Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.


Of course you do. You are supposed to.

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...




We've already seen what happens when a president uses faith instead of
reason to formulate policy.

You are not aware of this defect, but other people are.


Ever been in an airplane and suddenly the lights dim, the plane banks
sharply and the engines cut out?

Betcha find religion real fast.

Eisboch (just a joke)

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.


Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Why would "the liberal base" be interested in a simple-minded, uninformed
right-wing Christian rube as president?


Oh, Lorrdy, 2009 is going to be an interesting year in wrecked.boats.

Eisboch



Here's what this country needs: A presidential candidate who responds to
questions about religion in the same way any of us should if an potential
employer asked about it:

"My spiritual beliefs are no concern of yours. Do you have any questions
related to the job you need done?"

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...




We've already seen what happens when a president uses faith instead of
reason to formulate policy.

You are not aware of this defect, but other people are.


Ever been in an airplane and suddenly the lights dim, the plane banks
sharply and the engines cut out?

Betcha find religion real fast.

Eisboch (just a joke)


I know. It's late, and you've been watching football.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:


I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.

Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?


Good point. Seems to me that every candidate currently running on both
sides have pointed out their "strong faith".

So why is Huckelberry any different?

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Jan 5, 10:03*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Here's what this country needs: *A presidential candidate who responds to
questions about religion in the same way any of us should if an potential
employer asked about it:

"My spiritual beliefs are no concern of yours. Do you have any questions
related to the job you need done

They're busines or not, I'd tell 'em what I believe