Handicapping Iowa...
 

On Jan 5, 10:04*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:

I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.

Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?

Good point. * Seems to me that every candidate currently running on both
sides have pointed out their "strong faith".

So why is Huckelberry any different?

Eisboch

Probably because he's an ordained Baptist minister.

None of the other candidates are "ordained"

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:41:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JG2U" wrote in message
...

Huckabee isn't big-business, is a moral conservative, and is
moderately liberal on some issues. It's possible that some of the
liberal base could see him as a real alternative to the things they
don't like about the dems.

Some of us have a problem with the other Huckabee.

Barak Obama has mentioned, more than once, that he is a practicing
Christian and a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Here is an about us from Trinity United.

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically
Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition
are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain
"true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of
civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of
slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is
God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address
injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our
trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service
and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of
Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE
IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Also, the Pastor of Trinity United preaches the Black Value System
which is a form of liberation theology. The very first principle in
the Black Value System is:

The Black Value System

These Black Ethics must be taught and exampled in homes, churches,
nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect
the following concepts:

Commitment of God

"The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up
prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for
Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

So, how about the other Obama? Will you as passionately question
Obama's eager participation in liberation theology as a method for
governing as you do for other Christians?


Not sure. Has Obama been endorsed by right wing religious extremists with
a history of meddling directly in government? I've heard Iran is a
beautiful country, but I don't want this country to operate the ways
theirs does at the moment. I don't like theocracies.


Good grief. This should be a cakewalk.

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:


I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.

Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?


Good point. Seems to me that every candidate currently running on both
sides have pointed out their "strong faith".

So why is Huckelberry any different?

Eisboch



His backers are the problem. They don't just roll the dice and pick any
candidate who claims to have "strong faith". They go with whoever they think
they can make deals with. They're no different than any other special
interest group that needs to purchase a candidate. All the candidates are
owned by one or more special interests. Which candidate you choose depends
on which owners you're most comfortable with.

I'm more comfortable with Obama's corporate sponsors than I am with
Huckabee's religious sponsors.

"Of course, underneath the veneer of fresh-faced optimism that Obama is
pushing — note that the word "idealism" isn't appropriate here, because
Obama isn't selling idealism so much as a kind of reinvigorated, feel-good
pragmatism — there operates a massive, well-oiled political machine no less
ruthless and ambitious than that of his establishment rival, Hillary
Clinton. Obama has raised $80 million, and it would be a grievous mistake to
describe his candidacy as a grass-roots affair, particularly when he counts
among his bundlers many of the lobbyists and political-finance pros who
buttress the Clinton run.

Even a cursory glance at Obama's money men is enough to confirm that fact.
The list includes Wall Street hotshots from Lehman Brothers, Oppenheimer and
Co., and Citigroup, a smattering of Hollywood players and Native American
casino interests, representatives of big pharmaceuticals and the insurance
sector — in short, all the major food groups of reviled corporate
influence-hunters.

Worse still, Obama's financial backing is reflected in some of his Senate
votes and campaign positions, including most notably his support for
expanding NAFTA to Peru, limiting the ability of injured workers and
consumers to sue for damages, and pouring federal funds into E85 corn-based
ethanol, an alternative fuel for which the market is dominated by the
Illinois-based Archer Daniels Midland Company. More than once I heard Obama
give stirring speeches, only to mar them with plugs for ethanol. "

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:03 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Here's what this country needs: A presidential candidate who responds to
questions about religion in the same way any of us should if an potential
employer asked about it:

"My spiritual beliefs are no concern of yours. Do you have any questions
related to the job you need done

They're busines or not, I'd tell 'em what I believe

+++++++++++++++++++

You've been watching football, haven't you?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...



I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved with
government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight answer
to that question.


I love this kind of debate technique. Make a statement as if it were fact,
then question the answer to a baseless question assuming that fact.

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...



I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved with
government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight
answer to that question.


I love this kind of debate technique. Make a statement as if it were
fact, then question the answer to a baseless question assuming that fact.

Eisboch



You've been watching football. Come back tomorrow.

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006


So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling religion,
and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.


Is Huckabee?

Eisboch

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:03:28 -0500, HK wrote:


Besides, Obama merely attends the church; he isn't its pastor or its
former pastor, nor is he out praising Jesus or thanking heaven on a
public, daily basis for his political successes.

"Moreover, it's wrong to ask believers to leave their religion at the
door before entering the public square. Abraham Lincoln, William
Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King Jr. — indeed, the majority of great
reformers in American history — were not only motivated by faith, they
also used religious language to argue for their cause. To say men and
women should not inject their "personal morality" into policy debates
is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of
morality."

Barak Obama, USA Today, 7/10/2006


So?

There's no conflict in the two statements. Obama isn't shoveling
religion, and neither did Lincoln or King. Bryan, of course, did.


Is Huckabee?

Eisboch


It's his sponsors. They poisoned him. Hmm....interesting theory. Who do his
sponsors really want?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

Tim wrote:
On Jan 5, 10:04 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:10:28 -0500, BAR wrote:
I think you, the liberal side of the asile, are in fear of a candidate
with a strong faith in God.
Just curious, how do you determine who has a "strong faith in God"?
Good point. Seems to me that every candidate currently running on both
sides have pointed out their "strong faith".

So why is Huckelberry any different?

Eisboch

Probably because he's an ordained Baptist minister.

None of the other candidates are "ordained"

I thought Mitt Romney was a "priest" in the Mormon faith?

Handicapping Iowa...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...



I was going to ask if you were OK with religion getting too involved
with government, but I forgot something: You'll never provide a straight
answer to that question.


I love this kind of debate technique. Make a statement as if it were
fact, then question the answer to a baseless question assuming that fact.

Eisboch



You've been watching football. Come back tomorrow.


Nope. No football. No "refreshments". Just getting tired of all the BS.

Eisboch