"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Delburt D" wrote in message
news:ILn3j.15376$B21.15016@trndny07...


Just for the record, we are using a 15000 watt battery pack that weighs
828 lbs. Add to that the battery cable, 2/0 welding cable, the charger,
this is a plug in, Controllers etc.

With battery technology what it is today we are lucky to push a nice
little light weight hull like ours as much as we can. The future however
is looking brighter for much better batteries with higher capacity and
much less weight.

Where is the high capacity battery technology heading? The last major
advancement I am aware of was the development of lithium ion technology
but you don't see many of those in really big battery applications.
Lithium can also be a bit dicy in terms of handling (or getting wet) if I
recall correctly.

Seems like we are still stuck in the lead/acid age, either in wet cell or
AGM configurations despite many years of forecasts predicting major
technological breakthroughs in battery construction.

Eisboch

Excellent Question! Actually there are several new advancements in Lithium
Ion technology. There is a company producing a nano based lithium Ion
battery that is half the weight of lead acid and can be charged and
discharged in six minute cycles. The batteries are quite expensive right
now but they are in production now. These are litteraly bullet proof. The
developers have run extreme punishment testing and the only thing that
happens is the batteries stop functioning. You would expect this to happen
if you shove a metal rod through the caseG

There are also Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries that are much lighter and
also have no issue with thermal runaway. Large battery packs require
battery management systems that control the charge of each cell.
Overcharging is the enemy of all batteries. Some of the new battery systems
have microprocessors built in that communicate with the main module
controlling the overall charge state of the entire bank.

There is also a company developing a super capacitor. We have been told by
the developer that he will be able to give us 15KW in a 100 lb package down
the road. While being a bit more expensive initially this will be a boon to
our boat, giving us the ability to either extend the range or performance
per charge.

Now all that being said. The charge rate of any battery system is limited
by the source. A typical dryer outlet , 240V @ 50A equals 12KW. If you
have a 60KW pack it will take about five hours to charge regardless of the
batteries being charged.

These developments are what made us decide to get into this market now. We
have plenty of potential customers out there that can use the performance
level we now have and as the batteries get better our market will grow.

All of the cells I have talked about are either in ramp up production or
prototype production showing good success in both areas.

Tom

"Delburt D" wrote in message
news:MgC3j.24064$rg1.16072@trndny04...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Delburt D" wrote in message
news:ILn3j.15376$B21.15016@trndny07...


Where is the high capacity battery technology heading? The last major
advancement I am aware of was the development of lithium ion technology
but you don't see many of those in really big battery applications.
Lithium can also be a bit dicy in terms of handling (or getting wet) if I
recall correctly.

Seems like we are still stuck in the lead/acid age, either in wet cell or
AGM configurations despite many years of forecasts predicting major
technological breakthroughs in battery construction.

Eisboch

Excellent Question! Actually there are several new advancements in
Lithium Ion technology. There is a company producing a nano based lithium
Ion battery that is half the weight of lead acid and can be charged and
discharged in six minute cycles. The batteries are quite expensive right
now but they are in production now. These are litteraly bullet proof.
The developers have run extreme punishment testing and the only thing that
happens is the batteries stop functioning. You would expect this to happen
if you shove a metal rod through the caseG

snipped for brevity


Excellent answer!

Thanks.

Eisboch

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:02:36 GMT, "Delburt D"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
m...

"Delburt D" wrote in message
news:ILn3j.15376$B21.15016@trndny07...


Just for the record, we are using a 15000 watt battery pack that weighs
828 lbs. Add to that the battery cable, 2/0 welding cable, the charger,
this is a plug in, Controllers etc.

With battery technology what it is today we are lucky to push a nice
little light weight hull like ours as much as we can. The future however
is looking brighter for much better batteries with higher capacity and
much less weight.

Where is the high capacity battery technology heading? The last major
advancement I am aware of was the development of lithium ion technology
but you don't see many of those in really big battery applications.
Lithium can also be a bit dicy in terms of handling (or getting wet) if I
recall correctly.

Seems like we are still stuck in the lead/acid age, either in wet cell or
AGM configurations despite many years of forecasts predicting major
technological breakthroughs in battery construction.

Eisboch

Excellent Question! Actually there are several new advancements in Lithium
Ion technology. There is a company producing a nano based lithium Ion
battery that is half the weight of lead acid and can be charged and
discharged in six minute cycles. The batteries are quite expensive right
now but they are in production now. These are litteraly bullet proof. The
developers have run extreme punishment testing and the only thing that
happens is the batteries stop functioning. You would expect this to happen
if you shove a metal rod through the caseG

There are also Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries that are much lighter and
also have no issue with thermal runaway. Large battery packs require
battery management systems that control the charge of each cell.
Overcharging is the enemy of all batteries. Some of the new battery systems
have microprocessors built in that communicate with the main module
controlling the overall charge state of the entire bank.

There is also a company developing a super capacitor. We have been told by
the developer that he will be able to give us 15KW in a 100 lb package down
the road. While being a bit more expensive initially this will be a boon to
our boat, giving us the ability to either extend the range or performance
per charge.

Now all that being said. The charge rate of any battery system is limited
by the source. A typical dryer outlet , 240V @ 50A equals 12KW. If you
have a 60KW pack it will take about five hours to charge regardless of the
batteries being charged.

These developments are what made us decide to get into this market now. We
have plenty of potential customers out there that can use the performance
level we now have and as the batteries get better our market will grow.

All of the cells I have talked about are either in ramp up production or
prototype production showing good success in both areas.

I recall reading maybe 15 years ago about a development in electric
motors that made them much more efficient. It may have BS, and I'm
in the dark about how electricity works unless I flip the light
switch. It was a seemingly simple bit of rewiring, maybe adding an
electrical component.
Maybe it's actually in use, or maybe it *was* BS.
Anybody know if there was a breakthrough in making electric motors
more efficient in the recent past?

--Vic

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:53:08 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Anybody know if there was a breakthrough in making electric motors
more efficient in the recent past

Pulse Width Modulation.

All the cool trolling motors use it. :)

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:59:14 -0500, wrote:



Rare earth magnets?

Excuse my ignorance on this, but is that like Kryptonite?

--Vic

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:12:52 -0500, wrote:

Another big breakthrough in electric motor efficiency is PWM, or
"pulse width modulation" used for controlling the speed

Sorry - I didn't see your answer until it was too late.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:12:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:12:52 -0500, wrote:

Another big breakthrough in electric motor efficiency is PWM, or
"pulse width modulation" used for controlling the speed

Sorry - I didn't see your answer until it was too late.

Thanks for the backup! LOL



Is it used in both AC induction motors as well as DC permanent magnet
motors?

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:12:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:12:52 -0500, wrote:

Another big breakthrough in electric motor efficiency is PWM, or
"pulse width modulation" used for controlling the speed

Sorry - I didn't see your answer until it was too late.

Thanks for the backup! LOL



Is it used in both AC induction motors as well as DC permanent magnet
motors?

Eisboch


I checked with my friend Google and found the answer, which is "Yes".
I have to get out of my 20 year old technology and learn some new stuff.

Eisboch

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:14:38 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:12:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:12:52 -0500, wrote:

Another big breakthrough in electric motor efficiency is PWM, or
"pulse width modulation" used for controlling the speed

Sorry - I didn't see your answer until it was too late.

Thanks for the backup! LOL

Is it used in both AC induction motors as well as DC permanent magnet
motors?

Well, yes - with a qualification.

My knowledge of it comes from communications technology and what I
read with respect to my new trolling motor.

But I believe it is used in both.

I could be wrong.

I often am.

Are? :)

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:14:38 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:12:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:12:52 -0500, wrote:

Another big breakthrough in electric motor efficiency is PWM, or
"pulse width modulation" used for controlling the speed

Sorry - I didn't see your answer until it was too late.

Thanks for the backup! LOL

Is it used in both AC induction motors as well as DC permanent magnet
motors?

Well, yes - with a qualification.

My knowledge of it comes from communications technology and what I
read with respect to my new trolling motor.

But I believe it is used in both.

I could be wrong.

I often am.

Are? :)


This is good stuff. (the answer is "yes"). Everyday I feel like technology
is leaving me in the dust, especially since I stopped working and trying to
keep current.

Turns out it's also responsible for the higher quality of SACD recordings.

Eisboch