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Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:06:58 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:06:24 -0500, HK wrote:

Well, you can always put torn-up nets in their path. There's nothing
like 100' of fishing net wrapped around the propshaft to slow down these
inboard behemoths!
How do we slow the outboard behemoths?

You don't.

~~ snerk ~~


If my Parker is on full plane, the wake is pretty damned flat. That
wasn't true with my first Parker, but it is with this one.

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"HK" wrote in message
. ..


When you have powerboaters like Wayne B., who says,
"That said, wakes happen. Get over it, buy a bigger boat, or stay away
from where the big boys play," then you don't have to wonder whether
there are ill-mannered guys out there who don't give a damn about the
havoc their wakes cause."

I have seen plenty of powerboaters who do not give a tinker's dam about
their wakes. I've seen it in the ICW, and I see it out on Chesapeake Bay,
and I have seen it on the Patuxent River and its tributaries.

Isn't that the point Wayne is making? If there are boats, there will be
wakes, big and small.
I've often been out on my little 13' Whaler navigating over a big (to it)
wake from a passing large boat a mile away. I don't stand up, waving my
one fingered hand, shouting curses at the distant or not so distant boat.

Wayne's comment is not arrogance. It's realism.

Eisboch

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"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:06:58 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:06:24 -0500, HK wrote:

Well, you can always put torn-up nets in their path. There's nothing
like 100' of fishing net wrapped around the propshaft to slow down
these inboard behemoths!
How do we slow the outboard behemoths?

You don't.

~~ snerk ~~


If my Parker is on full plane, the wake is pretty damned flat. That wasn't
true with my first Parker, but it is with this one.

Try running the length of the ICW on full plane. You won't get far.

Eisboch

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On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:17:52 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Wayne... doesn't matter if it's intentional or not. You're responsible for
your wake. Having a bigger boat doesn't absolve you of your
responsibilities; it increases them.

The legality of being responsible for your wake is well understood.

It is understood to mean that you are responsible for damage caused by
your wake. It has been pointed out to me that my comment of "no
blood, no foul" was possibly flippant and insensitive. Perhaps. It
is however closely aligned with the legality of the issue. It is
always a judgement call just how much wake reduction is actually
called for in any given situation. I'm sure you'd agree that a kayak
or rowing shell is at much more risk from a wake than a 30 or 40
something sailboat. Most responsible powerboaters are faced with that
sort of decision process dozens of times in a typical afternoon on the
water. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect zero wake in every
circumstance unless you are on a boat that could actually be damaged
by a relatively small wave. The fact is that we hear of very few
cases where there is actual damage from a wake. So even though there
is a lot of complaining going on, very little actual carnage is taking
place. Insensitive? Frankly, I don't think so. I go out in both
small and large boats. When I'm out in a small one I expect others to
take reasonable precautions but I certainly don't expect flat water
much as I might like it. A good helmsman on a boat, small or large,
knows how to deal with a wake to minimize its effects. It's part of
boating.

By way of example, I recently took my 11 foot inflatable RIB dinghy
for an afternoon ride on Pamlico Sound behind the Outer Banks of North
Carolina. This an area of open water frequented by large numbers of
sportfishing boats greater than 40 ft. You could argue that an 11 ft
RIB is not really suited for those conditions but there I was anyway.
Since the channel is none too wide in many places, I got waked at
least a dozen times. Uncomfortable? You bet. Dangerous?
Potentially. Nevertheless I was able to cope by managing my speed and
angle of approach. Did I get paranoid and accuse anyone of
deliberately endangering me? Heck no, I'm the one who chose to be in
their playground, in a potentially unsuitable boat.

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On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:04:07 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I see more crazy powerboat operation in a single weekend at the entrance to
Scituate harbor during the summer than anything I witnessed on the ICW and
the biggest offenders are in smaller, outboard or I/O powered boats.

Sounds like the Caloosahatchie River between Sanibel Island and Ft
Myers on a nice winter weekend. It's like a non-stop demolition derby
out there. The large boats are generally the most responsible, up to
a point. There are those with this curious notion that no one should
ever inconvenience them with a wake. They should spend some time on
the Caloosahatchie.

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On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:12:42 -0500, HK wrote:

I have seen plenty of powerboaters who do not give a tinker's dam about
their wakes. I've seen it in the ICW, and I see it out on Chesapeake
Bay, and I have seen it on the Patuxent River and its tributaries.

Why should anyone worry about their wake on Chesapeake Bay? It's open
water. The freighters don't worry about their wake, the Coast Guard
doesn't, The US Navy does not, tug boats don't. Wakes happen. On a
windy day the naturally occurring waves are 3 to 4 feet out there.

Your transom is too low. Get over it, get a bigger boat, or don't go
out where the big boys play.

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"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:17:52 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Wayne... doesn't matter if it's intentional or not. You're responsible for
your wake. Having a bigger boat doesn't absolve you of your
responsibilities; it increases them.

The legality of being responsible for your wake is well understood.

It is understood to mean that you are responsible for damage caused by
your wake. It has been pointed out to me that my comment of "no
blood, no foul" was possibly flippant and insensitive. Perhaps. It
is however closely aligned with the legality of the issue. It is
always a judgement call just how much wake reduction is actually
called for in any given situation. I'm sure you'd agree that a kayak
or rowing shell is at much more risk from a wake than a 30 or 40
something sailboat. Most responsible powerboaters are faced with that

Ah... the problem is that there are a lot of boaters (power and otherwise)
who are not acting responsibly.

sort of decision process dozens of times in a typical afternoon on the
water. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect zero wake in every
circumstance unless you are on a boat that could actually be damaged
by a relatively small wave. The fact is that we hear of very few
cases where there is actual damage from a wake. So even though there
is a lot of complaining going on, very little actual carnage is taking
place. Insensitive? Frankly, I don't think so. I go out in both

The issue seems to be that by talking about a large wake (in my professional
judgement) you claimed that I was whining and complaining without
justification. I believe my concerns were justified.

small and large boats. When I'm out in a small one I expect others to
take reasonable precautions but I certainly don't expect flat water
much as I might like it. A good helmsman on a boat, small or large,
knows how to deal with a wake to minimize its effects. It's part of
boating.

No one expects flat water. And, certain precautions can and should be taken.
Where do you see that I was unable or didn't do that? The PBer in question
was moving 5 or more times faster than we were, from astern of us, and came
dangerously close (in my professional opinion).

By way of example, I recently took my 11 foot inflatable RIB dinghy
for an afternoon ride on Pamlico Sound behind the Outer Banks of North
Carolina. This an area of open water frequented by large numbers of
sportfishing boats greater than 40 ft. You could argue that an 11 ft
RIB is not really suited for those conditions but there I was anyway.
Since the channel is none too wide in many places, I got waked at
least a dozen times. Uncomfortable? You bet. Dangerous?
Potentially. Nevertheless I was able to cope by managing my speed and
angle of approach. Did I get paranoid and accuse anyone of
deliberately endangering me? Heck no, I'm the one who chose to be in
their playground, in a potentially unsuitable boat.

Nice story, but that has nothing to do with the situation I described. If
you feel it was dangerous, you shouldn't have gone there in that.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

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On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:13:07 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

By way of example, I recently took my 11 foot inflatable RIB dinghy
for an afternoon ride on Pamlico Sound behind the Outer Banks of North
Carolina. This an area of open water frequented by large numbers of
sportfishing boats greater than 40 ft. You could argue that an 11 ft
RIB is not really suited for those conditions but there I was anyway.
Since the channel is none too wide in many places, I got waked at
least a dozen times. Uncomfortable? You bet. Dangerous?
Potentially. Nevertheless I was able to cope by managing my speed and
angle of approach. Did I get paranoid and accuse anyone of
deliberately endangering me? Heck no, I'm the one who chose to be in
their playground, in a potentially unsuitable boat.

Nice story, but that has nothing to do with the situation I described. If
you feel it was dangerous, you shouldn't have gone there in that.

Precisely.

These sportfish were moving fast however, and coming a lot closer than
you'd really like. No blood, no foul. It gets interesting if I'm
capsized however. They are resposible for their wake, we all know
that. What about my quesionable judgement however (too small a boat),
and failure to negotiate a dangerous wave in a seamanlike manner. Life
is complicated sometimes.

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Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:12:42 -0500, HK wrote:

I have seen plenty of powerboaters who do not give a tinker's dam about
their wakes. I've seen it in the ICW, and I see it out on Chesapeake
Bay, and I have seen it on the Patuxent River and its tributaries.

Why should anyone worry about their wake on Chesapeake Bay? It's open
water. The freighters don't worry about their wake, the Coast Guard
doesn't, The US Navy does not, tug boats don't. Wakes happen. On a
windy day the naturally occurring waves are 3 to 4 feet out there.

Your transom is too low. Get over it, get a bigger boat, or don't go
out where the big boys play.


There are plenty of places on the Bay where very small boats congregate.
You probably don't notice them. There are guys out there in rowboats,
kayaks, canoes, not in the middle of the bay, but not far offshore, near
inlets, creeks, et cetera. Most boaters slow down anytime they get near
these guys, so they don't cause them problems. The arrogant ass boaters,
of course, don't.

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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:06:58 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:06:24 -0500, HK wrote:

Well, you can always put torn-up nets in their path. There's nothing
like 100' of fishing net wrapped around the propshaft to slow down
these inboard behemoths!
How do we slow the outboard behemoths?
You don't.

~~ snerk ~~

If my Parker is on full plane, the wake is pretty damned flat. That wasn't
true with my first Parker, but it is with this one.

Try running the length of the ICW on full plane. You won't get far.

Eisboch



So? If you are in a hurry, you should be on an airplane.