"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:


sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.



"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.


"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch



Eisbock,

I had heard that also, but considering all (or at least all of the major
mfg'ers that I know of) waxes and polishes result in water beading, and
the car stops beading when the sacrificial wax is pitted, how does one
protect their car's finish without getting water beading?

The water beading question reminds me of the physic problem concerning
do you get wetter running in the rain or walking in the rain.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a
whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone
recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was
considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago).
I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino
Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really
interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax
my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large
beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish
definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual
on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better
the 2nd
time i applied the finish.


"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on
a painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax
and paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface.
The wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch


Eisbock,

I had heard that also, but considering all (or at least all of the major
mfg'ers that I know of) waxes and polishes result in water beading, and
the car stops beading when the sacrificial wax is pitted, how does one
protect their car's finish without getting water beading?

The water beading question reminds me of the physic problem concerning
do you get wetter running in the rain or walking in the rain.



Waterbeading seems to be a real issue for you.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?

I would assume that the sheeting action is related to the fact that
there isn't anything for the water to cling to.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water
on a painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax
very regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying
glasses, focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through
the wax and paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the
surface. The wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

Harry,

There is no doubt about it, you are much smarter than I am. I am
curious why a really smart guy like yourself, living in New Haven, with
some of the best schools in the country within 150 miles, would have to
slum it and go to a 4th tier school such as University of Kansas?

You did know that the really good schools provide scholarships and
grants for the overachievers. My high school counselors tried to make
sure all the college bound students knew all the options they had.

Did I tell you my Dad was on full scholarship and graduated from Yale
(courtesy of the war dept.) and my son got a work study program at
Columbia. I try not to talk about myself, so i won't tell you where I
went to school.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water
on a painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax
very regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying
glasses, focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through
the wax and paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the
surface. The wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

Harry,

There is no doubt about it, you are much smarter than I am. I am
curious why a really smart guy like yourself, living in New Haven, with
some of the best schools in the country within 150 miles, would have to
slum it and go to a 4th tier school such as University of Kansas?

You did know that the really good schools provide scholarships and
grants for the overachievers. My high school counselors tried to make
sure all the college bound students knew all the options they had.

Did I tell you my Dad was on full scholarship and graduated from Yale
(courtesy of the war dept.) and my son got a work study program at
Columbia. I try not to talk about myself, so i won't tell you where I
went to school.


You seem to be working extra hard to convince me you are some sort of
worthy human being. You're wasting your time. I concluded several years
ago you were a turd, and nothing you have done since has made me
question that conclusion.

I don't believe you knew your father, and if your son (or the boy you
think is your son) is on a work-study program, it probably is the
offered by the Georgia State Prison System. Or not. It doesn't matter to me.

HK wrote:



Hydrophobic interaction.

Harry,

There is no doubt about it, you are much smarter than I am. I am
curious why a really smart guy like yourself, living in New Haven,
with some of the best schools in the country within 150 miles, would
have to slum it and go to a 4th tier school such as University of Kansas?


You missed the most important part about what made you go to the U of K.
I would have thought you could have gotten into something better.
My daughter is slumming it at state school, but she is at U of Mich.

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The
wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

Yup. There is quite a science associated with this. We built high vacuum
processing systems that ionized gas (plasma) and bombarded the internal
walls of bottles -- plastic and glass -- with energetic ions. The process
super cleaned the surface and water would sheet, rather than bead.

Some well know beer companies use this technology.

Eisboch

Makes for very sanitary

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The
wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.
File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?


Hydrophobic interaction.

Yup. There is quite a science associated with this. We built high vacuum
processing systems that ionized gas (plasma) and bombarded the internal
walls of bottles -- plastic and glass -- with energetic ions. The process
super cleaned the surface and water would sheet, rather than bead.

Some well know beer companies use this technology.

Eisboch

Makes for very sanitary




Hey! I tuk fizzzziks!