1. Housing is very affordable compared to where I live, and staying a
day with relatives north of Tampa helped in my effort to convince my
wife we give Florida a try, but it's not a done deal yet. The only
way we'll do it is to rent a house down there for a couple years
before we sell our home, so we know we're making the right decision.

2. It's not practical for me to have a boat until I move there.
I had planned on chartering a couple (Carolina Skiff 2480 DLX and a
Mac 26M) but was too busy doing other things in the 2 weeks I was down
there. Mostly canal and bridge fishing, floating on air mattresses in
the gulf, and taking my wife shopping - can you believe she kept me
waiting an hour while she examined every item in a GD Dollar Store?
We have plenty of dollar stores here, so why keep me from fishing,
swimming at the beach, or even just watching TV while we're in
Florida? Because she can, I guess. Anyway, she made nice about that,
and it won't happen again. Sure.

3. Excellent fishing, for us. Nothing big, but every day on the
Tampa Skyway north fishing pier was fun, unlike the last couple years.
Had one something I couldn't turn finally break my line around a pier
leg, another bite my jig off, caught a couple nice mackerels, etc.
All but one puffer were lip hooked and easily tossed back healthy.
The puffer had to be sent back with a hook in his gut.
We saw our share of porpoises, and a large sea turtle made a daily
appearance. Couple of polite young men a ways down next to us were
fun to talk to, and had been fishing the pier since they were 5 years
old. I learned a trick I never thought of myself. When they first
set up I soon saw a bucket floating out to sea, then noticed they had
their baited rods leaning against the rail unsecured. I made a couple
of snide comments to my wife about their experience level, learning
once more it's not always smart to make assumptions.
The baitshop guy had told me that morning that a fellow at the end of
the pier had just lost a $300 rig to a fish when he left it unattended
for a moment. Of course I've heard the story many times before, most
recently a couple days ago from my dad who told me my BIL had lost
dad's best rod/reel off the dock in the canal by a fish taking it.
The Tampa fishing piers are the remnants of the old Skyway that
met disaster in 1980. Here's a link to pictures of the north pier,
where I fish,
http://picasaweb.google.com/skywaypi...thPierPictures
I've never seen anything like it elsewhere, and if you're down by
Tampa, you should check it out. You drive your car, RV, whatever
right out into the bay and you can practically fish from your car.
In any case it's easy to unload gear, coolers, chairs and start
fishing.
It might get crowded on some weekends, but we fish there weekdays
only, and sometimes you have almost the whole pier to yourself.
And it's only 6 bucks for a car with 2 people for 24 hours.
Anyway, me and the wife are sitting down, her on the high curb and me
on a folding chair, our lines in the water about 12-14 feet below us.
Our line of sight 6 feet out from the rails was about the same.
A tarpon about 6' long, a 12" mullet sideways in his jaws makes an
arc in the air just to the left of us, about 6 feet out. I saw head
through tail make the arc, my wife caught the tail end. A really
spectacular sight that left our jaws hanging. She said she thought
"What's a fish doing on the bridge - there's nobody fishing to our
left."
The young fellows came over to ask if we saw that, and noted they had
never seen a fish jump that high. One of them spent years taking his
wheelchair-bound champion tarpon fishing uncle fishing, and never
saw a tarpon make such a prodigious jump. From their angle they saw
that the tarpon had come up to the rail in its jump, about 15-17'
above the water. It was really amazing.
Anyway, one kid's (they were probably early 20's) father owned a
tackle store, and he could chat gear well. I asked them about leaving
their rods loose and they said they never lost a rod because they kept
their drags real loose. That's the trick I learned, and for that
bridge and a long fishing day it works, and I used it a couple times
when the situation dictated it.
I always have my drag set when actively fishing, but for a quick trip
to the car or when rigging another rod, loosening the drag beats
pulling in your bait, or somehow tying the rod off.
BTW, the biggest difference in our fishing success was changing
bait, from squid/shrimp to jigs, applying soft plastic flutter tails
to the hook. And using the outgoing tide, which suspends a 3/8
ounce jig a few feet below the surface, tails fluttering.
Next time I'm going to try live baitfish and fish parts too, as the
kids said that works best for just about anything there worth
catching.
Also caught my first tarpon off the boat dock in the canal behind
my dad's place. Maybe 24"

4. Florida doesn't like my Lumina's A/C. Last year it quit as soon
as I got there. About $130 in an A/C shop fixed it, but that was
just evac/freon charge, no leak found. It was good until this summer.
My kid found the original compressor leaking, put in a $300 rebuilt
from Murrays. A month later the clutch solenoid shorted out. I got
a replacement from Murrays, and it worked fine until I got to Florida.
I shot 12 ounces in at the pier, and that only held for that morning.
Luckily we didn't need it, doing our fishing from sunrise until noon,
our shopping in the evening.
I think what ****ed me off the most about my wife spending an hour
in the dollar store was it was about 1 PM, and it was getting hot.
I'm sitting on a bench in the shopping center starting to sweat,
watching all the cars come and go, all with working A/C, even the
Fords and Chrysler PT Cruisers.
And here I am for the second year in a row in Florida with no A/C.
I felt like pure chopped liver. I'm actually thinking about breaking
my rule about not spending more than $2500 for a car.
When I got home my mechanic kid found that the front compressor seal
is shot.
Friday he'll take it out again and I'm going to try to get a refund
from Murrays and get a GM factory compressor. Murrays' rebuilder is
crap.

5. I did check out the Punta Gorda Marina, AKA Fisherman's Village
Yacht Basin. $16 a foot monthly, electric, water, cable TV/internet
included. No yearly or seasonal rates, just monthly, per
harbormaster, who gave me a tour of the shore facilities and said I
could walk the docks despite the signs about occupants and guests
only. The place looks very clean, orderly, and well-managed.
I just looked at the website and it says 98 slips, and reduced rates
off-season until November 30.
That's a reminder to always check the website before making a deal.
Wonder what the harbormaster would have said if I brought that up.
Saved a hundred bucks with an Enterprise car rental a couple years
ago when I invoked the website as the rental agent tried to charge me
for unlimited miles.
Probably about 15 slips were occupied by various motor boats and a few
sailboats.
The only life I saw was couple cleaning and oiling teak on a 42'
Marine Trader. They're selling it, having cruised it a couple years.
Going to an RV to get closer to the grandkids.
He gave me a tour and we talked boats for a while. He's boated all
his life, mostly sail, and if he gets another boat it will be a
sailboat.
Showed me a picture of his 32' Catalina yawl. He had engineered the
boat from sloop to yawl by installing the aft mast into the Catalina
tiller fitting. He explained that even when Catalina 32's are
purchased with wheel steering, the tiller post structure is
maintained, and using CAD he came up with the yawl.
The reason he gave for doing the conversion was the yawl is a better
sailer in a mess, and it enabled him and his wife to sail on weekends
when he was working, even if they had to beat back home in heavy
weather. He sailed out of Hull, MA.
First time I was on a "cruising" boat, and it seemed nicely set up.
I wasn't too impressed with sleeping arrangements when I saw the
V-berth, but as the tour continued he showed me the aft cabin.
Wow. Seemed to be about as big as my bedroom, and also had a head.
Nice kitchen and dining lounge. The bulkhead forward of the nav table
was a built-in control panel that must have had a couple dozen gauges
and switches. I asked how you get to the wires and he quickly opened
the midships head and unlatched and pulled off a long hatch on the aft
bulkhead. There were all the wires, neat as a pin.
I asked about the engines and he had twin diesels, but since he really
wanted to talk about sailing the conversation went that way, and I
didn't get much technical info.
We went to the bridge for a bit, but mostly talked about sailing
stuff, and my head was already on info overload, so I all I remember
is it was big, and intimidating to me. A boat like this must take
some getting used to to feel confident about driving it.
Even climbing on and off told me that I need some exercise to get
back my formerly good balance, as I was REAL slow and careful
not to fall in the drink, whereas in the past I would have clambered
on and off like a monkey, and if I fell in just considered it a good
swim and a laugh.
I took my leave on signals that probably came from the wife, who was
stuck rubbing oil into teak as her husband loafed with me.
They had just listed the 1987 boat with a broker for 143k.
So I slowly mosey back to the Fisherman's Village mall, fully
expecting to see my wife at the cafe I told her to meet me at when she
was done shopping. That had been close to 2 hours ago.
I got some iced coffee and nursed it and a couple smokes for at least
another 45 minutes before she showed up.
There's probably a rule that says something like,
"Whatever amount of time your wife says she will shop should be
quadrupled and then augmented further by 600% of the total.
This will sometimes ensure your wait for her will not exceed 24 hours,
or the amount of time the local police require for filing a missing
persons report, whichever comes later."
Actually, the couple at an adjacent table suggested we both carry cell
phones, and I might try that.
Hey, I'm not really complaining. She got our main "Florida gifts for
family and friends" shopping done in one fell swoop, leaving more time
to go fishing. So I'll just shut up and plan my next trip..

--Vic

wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:29:02 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

1. Housing is very affordable compared to where I live,

Just be sure you know what taxes and insurance will be. There can be a
significant sticker shock when you get that bill.


Housing is still relatively affordable in NE Florida, down to about
Daytona, and in some of Florida's Gulf Coast areas. The rest of the
state, south of Daytona, is so damned hot and so plagued with natural
and manmade disasters, I don't know why anyone owns real estate there.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:00:27 -0400, HK wrote:

The rest of the
state, south of Daytona, is so damned hot and so plagued with natural
and manmade disasters, I don't know why anyone owns real estate there.

All those millions of people living in south Florida must have found
something they like. Maybe the great winter weather, fine boating,
world class beaches and fishing might have something to do with it?
North of Daytona you still get freezing winter weather on a fairly
regular basis.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:00:27 -0400, HK wrote:

The rest of the
state, south of Daytona, is so damned hot and so plagued with natural
and manmade disasters, I don't know why anyone owns real estate there.

All those millions of people living in south Florida must have found
something they like. Maybe the great winter weather, fine boating,
world class beaches and fishing might have something to do with it?
North of Daytona you still get freezing winter weather on a fairly
regular basis.


Oh, I don't mind visiting south Florida during the winter for a vacation
or a business trip. In fact, I almost always do. But it's too hot south
of Daytona for my living comfort.

I lived a bit north of Daytona for more than five years. "Freezing
weather" was not that common, but it did happen. We had three seasons:
spring from February through mid-April, summer from mid-April through
October, and fall from November to sometime in February, but even winter
had many bright sunny 70+F days. Also, in northern Florida, we had
reasonable looking trees and forests.

As for beaches, north Florida has miles and miles of beautiful,
unspoiled, practically unwalked upon beaches. Our favorites were at Big
Talbot Island State Park and of course just across the St. Augustine
Inlet and a bit south.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:47:40 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:29:02 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

1. Housing is very affordable compared to where I live,

Just be sure you know what taxes and insurance will be. There can be a
significant sticker shock when you get that bill.

Will do.

--Vic

On Tue, 23 Oct 07, Vic Smith wrote:
1. Housing is very affordable compared to where I live,

gfretwell wrote:
Just be sure you know what taxes and insurance will be. There can be a
significant sticker shock when you get that bill.

Which taxes? Advalorem? Sales? Estate? Other?
IIRC, FL doesn't have an income tax does it?

Vic, for comparison, which state do you live in presently?

Rick

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:21:56 -0500, lid wrote:

On Tue, 23 Oct 07, Vic Smith wrote:
1. Housing is very affordable compared to where I live,

gfretwell wrote:
Just be sure you know what taxes and insurance will be. There can be a
significant sticker shock when you get that bill.

Which taxes? Advalorem? Sales? Estate? Other?
IIRC, FL doesn't have an income tax does it?

Vic, for comparison, which state do you live in presently?

I'm in Morton Grove, Illinois. It's a suburb North of Chicago, in the
same county (Cook). Up here counties have a lot to do with sales and
RE taxes. Illinois has a pretty stiff income tax, but our income
isn't much now that I retired. I think the sales tax is 8% in Cook
county. RE tax last year was 4K, for a 1200 sq ft house, but I was
just reassessed so I expect that's higher now. The county is a couple
months late with the tax bill because of all the fighting about it.
Up here it's a fairly common practice to protest every tri-annual
assessment and I've paid a tax lawyer @400 for each of the 3
assessments I've been here. It's damn near impossible to figure out
exactly what effect that's had, but when I bought 10 years ago taxes
were 2k.
In any event, from what I can tell, I'm at least in line with the
neighbors.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
in Cook
county. RE tax last year was 4K, for a 1200 sq ft house

gfretwell wrote:
we cap tax hikes to
3% for homesteaded residents.

hmm.... I think I'll stay put.
1,500 sq ft, on an acre within the city limits, $850 after Homestead
Exemption. After age 65, that'll drop to zero.
Sales tax is 7%. There was a big push last year to raise sales tax on
cigarettes and eliminate it completely on groceries but in the end, it
didn't quite fly. That idea's not dead yet though.
We have a State Income Tax but compared to Federal, it's not enough to
complain about.
Insurance is another matter. I'm on the MS Coast in the area that took
the brunt of Katrina (no, contrary to the news media coverage, New
Orleans dodged the worst of it). Personally, I feel fortunate to have
insurance at all. But I'm on high ground almost a mile from the beach.
Most of the people I know who lost their homes (includes every home on
the beachfront and at least a block or two inland) aren't able to
rebuild because insurance simply isn't available. And most people
who've been able to keep the insurance they had, are paying twice (at
least) the premium they were before. Some premiums went up by
10X.-20X. It's a huge political issue here presently and some people
think it'll be resolved politically somehow... -shrug- ... frankly, I
don't know. Maybe the extreme cases will eventually be lowered but I
believe high premiums are here to stay.

Rick

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:48:37 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:43:17 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

in Cook
county. RE tax last year was 4K, for a 1200 sq ft house

Then the taxes shouldn't shock you. I wonder why all the snow birds
have their panties in such a bunch. They make it sound like they are
getting robbed. I guess they are just ****ed that we cap tax hikes to
3% for homesteaded residents. 3% a year still adds up pretty fast and
they reset the assessment if you move to whatever you paid so you
could buy a smaller house and end up with higher taxes.

Maybe the squawkers came from low tax areas, maybe they're
just plain squawkers. Taxes aren't cheap here, but it's a decent area
with good schools, which always eat most of the taxes.
My home insurance cost is low, about 500.
BTW, 1200 sq ft here is different than in Florida, because there's
another 1200 sq ft of basement. But then a bungalow style house like
I have has small rooms compared to a 2000 sq ft house in Florida.
But I will miss my basement, and maybe my detached garage.
Nice retreats.
Anyway, I'm thinking about going at least 20 miles inland from the
gulf, probably north of Tampa, but not really sure.
The housing price/insurance difference by staying away from the salt
will buy a nice boat and years of marina space. And no way I could
get the wife - or myself really - to move where there's a possibility
of tidal surge taking the house unless I was wealthier than I am.
I really need to get down there for a few weeks just "investigating"
instead of "vacationing."
I've got some work to do on the house up here too, if I want
to rent or sell it, so I'm looking at 2009 for the move, and who knows
what changes will happen before then.
But hey, at least this has got me putting down some plans.
I mentioned before planning a short stay at a relative's inland home
during this vacation to give my wife a view of something other than
the waterfront condos and resorts we always go to.
Though I enjoyed the visit and learned a lot too, it was done mostly
to turn my wife into considering Florida. It worked.
I love it when a plan comes together!

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:48:37 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:43:17 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

in Cook
county. RE tax last year was 4K, for a 1200 sq ft house
Then the taxes shouldn't shock you. I wonder why all the snow birds
have their panties in such a bunch. They make it sound like they are
getting robbed. I guess they are just ****ed that we cap tax hikes to
3% for homesteaded residents. 3% a year still adds up pretty fast and
they reset the assessment if you move to whatever you paid so you
could buy a smaller house and end up with higher taxes.

Maybe the squawkers came from low tax areas, maybe they're
just plain squawkers. Taxes aren't cheap here, but it's a decent area
with good schools, which always eat most of the taxes.
My home insurance cost is low, about 500.
BTW, 1200 sq ft here is different than in Florida, because there's
another 1200 sq ft of basement. But then a bungalow style house like
I have has small rooms compared to a 2000 sq ft house in Florida.
But I will miss my basement, and maybe my detached garage.
Nice retreats.
Anyway, I'm thinking about going at least 20 miles inland from the
gulf, probably north of Tampa, but not really sure.
The housing price/insurance difference by staying away from the salt
will buy a nice boat and years of marina space. And no way I could
get the wife - or myself really - to move where there's a possibility
of tidal surge taking the house unless I was wealthier than I am.
I really need to get down there for a few weeks just "investigating"
instead of "vacationing."
I've got some work to do on the house up here too, if I want
to rent or sell it, so I'm looking at 2009 for the move, and who knows
what changes will happen before then.
But hey, at least this has got me putting down some plans.
I mentioned before planning a short stay at a relative's inland home
during this vacation to give my wife a view of something other than
the waterfront condos and resorts we always go to.
Though I enjoyed the visit and learned a lot too, it was done mostly
to turn my wife into considering Florida. It worked.
I love it when a plan comes together!

--Vic



Might I suggest you investigate the area from Tallahassee south to the
gulf, via Route 319. The terrain is hilly, a lot different than most of
California, Tallahassee is an interesting small city, there's a big
national forest along the way, and when you get down to Panacea, there's
good boating and fishing.