At rated tow capacity, I would expect the 'Hybrid' angle to nil out. It
would not take long for the batteries to pull down, hauling that big POS
tank, + 6K of boat/trailer. So, it will be pulling on the engine alone
in no time. The whole 'Hybrid' thing with a pickup is just jumping on
the Hybrid bandwagon, while in actuality offering Nothing to be gained
by using it. Typical Domestic Car Maker consumer fraud. As Corsair23
says, total junk anyway, but, it's Domestic, so that's a given. GM
bombed out with the 'Super Size Me' SUV market, just like the other big
3 members, foisting 8-10 MPG tanks off on the stupid consumer, while
energy costs are skyrocketing, with no end in site. Now, they want to
sucker consumers into believing that a "Hybrid" 1/2 ton pickup towing 6K
is a viable vehicle. BULL****.
JR

Chuck Gould wrote:
You will be able to buy a half ton pickup from GM, rated for 6000 lb
towing capacity, in the 2008 model year.

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

On Oct 22, 6:08?pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:35:45 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
Anybody not driving the most basic Japanese car available for 15-20
years has failed to "do the math".

I'm not sure I agree with that. We are now on a 20+ year string of
owning Japanese cars. We usually buy top of the line, fully loaded
models that offer just about everything you could want in comfort,
style, features, etc. The big pay off is not fuel efficiency, but
durability and reliability. These cars just keep running, do not
nickel and dime you to death with petty maintenance issues, and do not
leave you stranded in the middle of a road trip just because they have
over 80K miles on them.

That's worth a lot to me.

If it were just about "math", you'd buy the cheapest version of the
same Japanese makes you like and enjoy about the same length of
service with fewer "gizmos" crapping out during the life of the
car......that was my point.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:40:24 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

If it were just about "math", you'd buy the cheapest version of the
same Japanese makes you like and enjoy about the same length of
service with fewer "gizmos" crapping out during the life of the
car......that was my point.

Yes, if it was just about transportation, you are right. One of the
interesting things we've found is that the gizmos are more reliable
than Detroit's also.

On Oct 22, 6:50?pm, JR North wrote:
At rated tow capacity, I would expect the 'Hybrid' angle to nil out. It
would not take long for the batteries to pull down, hauling that big POS
tank, + 6K of boat/trailer. So, it will be pulling on the engine alone
in no time. The whole 'Hybrid' thing with a pickup is just jumping on
the Hybrid bandwagon, while in actuality offering Nothing to be gained
by using it. Typical Domestic Car Maker consumer fraud. As Corsair23
says, total junk anyway, but, it's Domestic, so that's a given. GM
bombed out with the 'Super Size Me' SUV market, just like the other big
3 members, foisting 8-10 MPG tanks off on the stupid consumer, while
energy costs are skyrocketing, with no end in site. Now, they want to
sucker consumers into believing that a "Hybrid" 1/2 ton pickup towing 6K
is a viable vehicle. BULL****.
JR

Chuck Gould wrote:
You will be able to buy a half ton pickup from GM, rated for 6000 lb
towing capacity, in the 2008 model year.

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

If GM's hybrid works the way that those built by Toyota do, you are
entirely right that the electic motors won't add much at all to
towing.
Not that they will "run down", they will never really be primarily
engaged with that much load on the vehicle. The engine will be runing
constantly.

Where the hybrid pickup truck has some promise, IMO, is when it is
running empty or without a trailer. How many people settle for a 10-12
mpg pickup truck simply because they need to tow a boat or haul a load
of construction materials a dozen times every summer? Sure, the truck
may get only 6-8 mpg while towing, hybrid or not. But if during the 90-
some percent of the time most people operate without a trailer and are
running empty the truck can realize 16 mpg instead of 12 that
represents a significant savings. Multiply that by 20 or 30 million
vehicles and pretty soon we can tell the Arabian Oil Sheiks to shove
it. :-)

"Chuck Gould" wrote
If it were just about "math", you'd buy the cheapest version of the
same Japanese makes you like and enjoy about the same length of
service with fewer "gizmos" crapping out during the life of the
car......that was my point.

It appears I have mad skilz in the math department:
http://home.comcast.net/~blizzard3/b...ages/truck.jpg
(and all along I thought I was just a cheap *******)

On Oct 22, 4:43 pm, Corsair23 wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:41 pm, Chuck Gould wrote:

You will be able to buy a half ton pickup from GM, rated for 6000 lb
towing capacity, in the 2008 model year.

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.

The frames are made near me, and they're JUNK.Paper thin pieces of
crap.The door panels on them are soooo thin, if you LEAN on them too
hard, they dent.
And lets not forget, the Auto Makers CAN get better mileage, the GAS
COMPANIES dont want them to. They're in bed together.



From one who handles them all the time, they're junk.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wouldn't own a GM anything!

On Oct 22, 5:30 pm, " JimH" ask wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Oct 22, 11:29?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Chuck Gould"

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.

mmm hmmmm.

db

My personal experience with the 400H indicates that hybrid technology
can indeed improve gas mileage. Our 400H dramatically outperforms the
standard V6 equivalent (especially in acceleration), and with the trip
computer on for a variety of in town and highway driving last weekend
we realized a genuine 28.2 mpg. EPA fantasies aside, I think we would
have been lucky to get much more than about 20-22 mpg with the slower,
orthodox V6.

I'm not sure that the ECVT transmission is heavy duty enough for
extremely large loads, but for small trailer boats under 5-6,000
pounds
the hybrid might be a workable alternative. It would at least bear
looking into.

Everything I have read says the average driver will never recoup the extra
money spend on a hybrid in gasoline savings.

It looks like your Lexus hybrid cost you about $5,000 more than the
comparable non hybrid Lexus. That works out to 1,667 gallons of gas @
$3/gallon just to break even.

Who knows how it pans out for the person doing a lot of towing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's only 47k miles to break even. Most people these days with
decent maintenence can expect to get 4 or five times that, making it a
very good value.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com...
On Oct 22, 11:29?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Chuck Gould"

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.

mmm hmmmm.

db

My personal experience with the 400H indicates that hybrid technology
can indeed improve gas mileage. Our 400H dramatically outperforms the
standard V6 equivalent (especially in acceleration), and with the trip
computer on for a variety of in town and highway driving last weekend
we realized a genuine 28.2 mpg. EPA fantasies aside, I think we would
have been lucky to get much more than about 20-22 mpg with the slower,
orthodox V6.

I'm not sure that the ECVT transmission is heavy duty enough for
extremely large loads, but for small trailer boats under 5-6,000
pounds
the hybrid might be a workable alternative. It would at least bear
looking into.


I like the technology and am excited to check out the vehicle but have heard
*some* complain thier prius' not living up to the (mpg) hype. Other's
are pushing the mpg envelope by altering their driving habits.


YMMV.

db

On Oct 23, 6:39?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in oglegroups.com...
On Oct 22, 11:29?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote:
"Chuck Gould"

Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered
trucks with equal towing capacity.

mmm hmmmm.

db

My personal experience with the 400H indicates that hybrid technology
can indeed improve gas mileage. Our 400H dramatically outperforms the
standard V6 equivalent (especially in acceleration), and with the trip
computer on for a variety of in town and highway driving last weekend
we realized a genuine 28.2 mpg. EPA fantasies aside, I think we would
have been lucky to get much more than about 20-22 mpg with the slower,
orthodox V6.

I'm not sure that the ECVT transmission is heavy duty enough for
extremely large loads, but for small trailer boats under 5-6,000
pounds
the hybrid might be a workable alternative. It would at least bear
looking into.

I like the technology and am excited to check out the vehicle but have heard
*some* complain thier prius' not living up to the (mpg) hype. Other's
are pushing the mpg envelope by altering their driving habits.

YMMV.

db- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Based on our experience with the 400H, I can attest that driving
habits and style make an enormous difference in the mileage realized
with a hybrid, just as they do with an orthodox gasoline car. My wife
gets about 3 mpg less than I do, and it's primarily because her style
reflects her "type A" personality. :-)

wrote
That's only 47k miles to break even. Most people these days with
decent maintenence can expect to get 4 or five times that, making it a
very good value.

That's not the break even point, that's the point at which the hybrid has
burned $5000 worth of gas. You've saved less than $2K at that point.

The point where you save the full $5000 worth of $3/gallon gas by burning it
at 28.2MPG instead of 20-22MPG comes somewhere in the 160-210,000 mile
range, according to my mad math skilz.

But as Chuck points out, it's not all about the math.