On Aug 8, 6:48?pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.

Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.

What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed to
operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although not
recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin area
recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He knows
value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized Sea Rays
(also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well deserved
bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.

I'd be relectant to run in 3-footers or more with any 21-foot boat.
That's an example of a use that isn't appropriate- regardless of brand
name on the boat. I can think of several Bayliner/Meridian boats in
which I would be confident, if not entirely comfortable, in 3-5
footers- but they're all larger than 21 feet.

I get nervous when the height of the chop exceeds that of the
freeboard.
Sans big scuppers or an aggressively self bailing cockpit, you don't
want to start collecting a lot of water in a boat that size- it
doesn't take much to drive one under. Wouldn't personally want to be
in a boat without a foredeck- with the possible exception of a W/A
fishing rig- in anything particularly nasty. Lots of times the best
option, if not the most comfortable, is to steer into the wind in
heavy weather. Lack of a foredeck effectively precludes that choice as
spray and splash water, and perhaps the occasionally breaking wave,
*will* beat down of the forward portions of the topside.

JimH- you have posted here that you choose not to use your boat on
days when the winds get into the 20 mph range. I think that is an
example of *appropriate* use for a boat no larger or heavier than
yours and demonstrates good judgment. Within that weather frame, it
should be pretty unusual to encounter more than 2 foot chop, I'd
think--- although I haven't done any boating on Lake Erie.

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:57:43 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:


I'd be relectant to run in 3-footers or more with any 21-foot boat.

A lot of where I run, in and around the Fisher's Island area, Watch
Hill Reef, North Rip at Block, Seal Rock off Newport, etc., it's not
uncommon to run into 2/3 foot waves on changing tides when the rest of
the ocean is flat calm. Heck, even in a dead calm, running the
Charleston Breachway on a particularly agressive tide can be a roller
coaster ride.

As you said, the difference is how you get rid of water coming into
the boat and that's one problem with my Ranger that I don't like. The
self-draining system leaves a lot to be desired. Thus, I learned how
to avoid major problems in how I handle the boat in these situations.
And being one of those fishing types that loves drifting in tidal rips
I had to quickly learn the whats and hows to avoid shipping water.

Sometimes I'll let the bow do the work, sometimes the freeboard and my
Ranger's ability to really "float" if you will. While there are
problems with the cockpit drainage, the inherent stability of the beam
vs length and the bay boat type of hull keep it relatively dry.

I don't mind 20 knot winds if I'm in the bay, but anywhere else, I'm
not all that comfortable.