JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

In the past, you've said it was just an honor to serve in uniform, but
that's too general a statement at this point in history.


It is ALWAYS an honor to serve. The decision makers abilities and
rationale for going to war may be debatable, but anyone and everyone who
has put on a uniform to represent the USA has the right to be proud to
do so.

Have you served?

JimH wrote:
August 13, 2007. One day before our 25th Wedding Anniversary our son leaves
for Paris Island. He is slotted for Military Police training after
completing basic training and *earning* his right to officially call himself
a Marine. He originally planned delayed entry in mid September but the MP
opportunity came up if he went in earlier.

Even before his decision to join the Marines he has been concentrating on
his physical condition, recently completing a community event 5 mile race
and finishing in 2nd place.

He will continue with the physical preparation but will now start to
mentally focus on the fact that he will be leaving for Paris Island in 6
weeks.

We are very proud of him and his decision to join the Marine Corps.


Congrats to your son! I truly appreciate his decision to serve and
protect OUR country.

"DownTime" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

In the past, you've said it was just an honor to serve in uniform, but
that's too general a statement at this point in history.
It is ALWAYS an honor to serve. The decision makers abilities and
rationale for going to war may be debatable, but anyone and everyone who
has put on a uniform to represent the USA has the right to be proud to do
so.

I'm not debating what you said. My point is that at this moment, it's a
pretty sure thing that someone who joins could end up in Iraq. The only
reason for our presence there that has even a hint of nobility is wanting to
introduce democracy, and Iraq's leaders have sympathetically said "Nice
idea, but don't count on it for a very long time. We are not you." The
history of the Shia vs Sunni mess also discounts the idea that democracy is
the solution to the problems in the region. (Think Northern Ireland, where
democracy solved nothing).

So, to simplify, a soldier offers to die because {fill in the blank,
please}. I don't believe honor is the reason.




Have you served?

Interesting question. Why do you ask?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:39:51 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:28:51 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"RCE" wrote in message
news:YMGdncrzHMmY5hTbnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d@gigan ews.com...

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...


Congrats to him.

I'd like to hope the situation in Iraq improves and stabilizes or
even
gets resolved before he's eligible to be deployed.


Thank you Chuck.

We will be getting a first hand report on the *actual* conditions
there
well before he is slated for deployment to Iraq as 2 of our best
friends
sons (US Marines) are soon scheduled for redeployment to Iraq.



Ironic. Your son is starting his duty. Mine, (Eisboch Jr.) was
just
discharged yesterday after 4 years and two deployments to the
Persian
Gulf.

Life goes on.

Eisboch

Did your son ever mention which of the list of vaporous invasion
reasons
he
clung to in order to remain sane in Iraq?

Stop being an ass Doug.

Honest to pete.

Sorry. I forgot to check the list of approved questions.

Not the point and you know it.

The point is that we should be quiet, right? Don't cause parents of
soldiers any more worry than they may already have?

The quiet ain't gonna happen. The time to worry about your kids is when
they're still close enough to learn some history, and spot politicians
who are doomed to repeat it.


Talk to me when your adult son or daughter decides he/she wants to serve
his/her country.
Until then, your opinions are noise level bull****.

Eisboch


We can't compare two different sons. Mine has said he wouldn't join until
there's a commander in chief he trusts (which, by the way, includes
Bush-1).

That pretty much lets him off the hook.
You must be so proud, Doug.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"DownTime" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

In the past, you've said it was just an honor to serve in uniform, but
that's too general a statement at this point in history.
It is ALWAYS an honor to serve. The decision makers abilities and
rationale for going to war may be debatable, but anyone and everyone who
has put on a uniform to represent the USA has the right to be proud to do
so.

I'm not debating what you said. My point is that at this moment, it's a
pretty sure thing that someone who joins could end up in Iraq. The only
reason for our presence there that has even a hint of nobility is wanting
to introduce democracy, and Iraq's leaders have sympathetically said "Nice
idea, but don't count on it for a very long time. We are not you." The
history of the Shia vs Sunni mess also discounts the idea that democracy
is the solution to the problems in the region. (Think Northern Ireland,
where democracy solved nothing).

So, to simplify, a soldier offers to die because {fill in the blank,
please}. I don't believe honor is the reason.




Have you served?

Interesting question. Why do you ask?

What's even more interesting is your answer.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"DownTime" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
In the past, you've said it was just an honor to serve in uniform, but
that's too general a statement at this point in history.
It is ALWAYS an honor to serve. The decision makers abilities and
rationale for going to war may be debatable, but anyone and everyone who
has put on a uniform to represent the USA has the right to be proud to do
so.

I'm not debating what you said. My point is that at this moment, it's a
pretty sure thing that someone who joins could end up in Iraq. The only
reason for our presence there that has even a hint of nobility is wanting to
introduce democracy, and Iraq's leaders have sympathetically said "Nice
idea, but don't count on it for a very long time. We are not you." The
history of the Shia vs Sunni mess also discounts the idea that democracy is
the solution to the problems in the region. (Think Northern Ireland, where
democracy solved nothing).

So, to simplify, a soldier offers to die because {fill in the blank,
please}. I don't believe honor is the reason.


I understand your point, I disagree with it being debated in the context
of this thread. If military policy was up to me, I'd bring home ALL our
troops, from every corner of the globe, and use the resources to secure
our borders and clean out the mess we have here, at home, my home, my
country. Use our troops to protect US. I'd stop trying to be the global
big brother.

The religious battles and outright hatred being fought and perpetrated
by various groups across the globe have been going on well before the
USA was even a thought. No amount of money or effort will ever change
that.


Have you served?

Interesting question. Why do you ask?

Just curious. I was sensing/guessing the answer.

"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...

Talk to me when your adult son or daughter decides he/she wants to serve
his/her country.
Until then, your opinions are noise level bull****.

Eisboch


We can't compare two different sons. Mine has said he wouldn't join until
there's a commander in chief he trusts (which, by the way, includes
Bush-1).

That pretty much lets him off the hook.
You must be so proud, Doug.


What hook? Your post made no sense. I'm still listening, though.

"DownTime" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"DownTime" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
In the past, you've said it was just an honor to serve in uniform, but
that's too general a statement at this point in history.
It is ALWAYS an honor to serve. The decision makers abilities and
rationale for going to war may be debatable, but anyone and everyone who
has put on a uniform to represent the USA has the right to be proud to
do so.

I'm not debating what you said. My point is that at this moment, it's a
pretty sure thing that someone who joins could end up in Iraq. The only
reason for our presence there that has even a hint of nobility is wanting
to introduce democracy, and Iraq's leaders have sympathetically said
"Nice idea, but don't count on it for a very long time. We are not you."
The history of the Shia vs Sunni mess also discounts the idea that
democracy is the solution to the problems in the region. (Think Northern
Ireland, where democracy solved nothing).

So, to simplify, a soldier offers to die because {fill in the blank,
please}. I don't believe honor is the reason.


I understand your point, I disagree with it being debated in the context
of this thread. If military policy was up to me, I'd bring home ALL our
troops, from every corner of the globe, and use the resources to secure
our borders and clean out the mess we have here, at home, my home, my
country. Use our troops to protect US. I'd stop trying to be the global
big brother.

The religious battles and outright hatred being fought and perpetrated by
various groups across the globe have been going on well before the USA was
even a thought. No amount of money or effort will ever change that.


Now we're getting somewhere. Your last paragraph beginning with "The
religious" - you're aware of that. Everyone should be aware of that. I
wonder why so many discount this sort of knowledge as unimportant, and go
headlong into the same kinds of messes over and over and over.....

Honor? Faith? Because their dads did the same?



Have you served?

Interesting question. Why do you ask?
Just curious. I was sensing/guessing the answer.

I volunteered for Air Force in (guessing) 1970. They had issues with my
outrageously bad vision. I inquired about working on jets, but that idea
didn't fly, either. My father thought this was absurd, but that was the
story we got. A year of college went by, and by that point, the cat was out
of the bag, so to speak, with regard to Vietnam. Even my dad, a former Navy
pilot who was gung ho about the war five years earlier, said "This is a
serious mess we got ourselves into".

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


I volunteered for Air Force in (guessing) 1970. They had issues with my
outrageously bad vision. I inquired about working on jets, but that idea
didn't fly, either. My father thought this was absurd, but that was the
story we got. A year of college went by, and by that point, the cat was
out of the bag, so to speak, with regard to Vietnam. Even my dad, a former
Navy pilot who was gung ho about the war five years earlier, said "This is
a serious mess we got ourselves into".


Wouldn't it just be dandy if we could all pick and choose a time to serve.
Doug, you have completely missed the point, but that's really not a big
surprise.

Have a Happy 4th of July.

Eisboch

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


I volunteered for Air Force in (guessing) 1970. They had issues with my
outrageously bad vision. I inquired about working on jets, but that idea
didn't fly, either. My father thought this was absurd, but that was the
story we got. A year of college went by, and by that point, the cat was
out of the bag, so to speak, with regard to Vietnam. Even my dad, a
former Navy pilot who was gung ho about the war five years earlier, said
"This is a serious mess we got ourselves into".


Wouldn't it just be dandy if we could all pick and choose a time to serve.
Doug, you have completely missed the point, but that's really not a big
surprise.

Have a Happy 4th of July.

Eisboch



Time to serve: Everything can equal "a vote", and it is our responsibility
to vote in every way possible. To do otherwise is traitorous at worst, lazy
at best. We vote in voting booths. We vote with our time. We vote with our
voices. It's part of being Americans. Jefferson hinted at this often.

Perhaps one day, someone will explain "the point", but so far, I have not
seen that happen.

The 4th will involve taking the yacht up the Genesee River and anchoring to
watch the fireworks. However, this time, we will not anchor 100 feet from
where the fireworks are launched. That frightened the crew last time.