Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!",



That's what you get for shipping out with boobus Americanus.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.



After returning from a cruise of the Alaska waters the last thing I would
think to post would be some political crap about global warming and
Hillary/Gore. Half of your post was devoted to that crap.

Glad to see you returned safely Chuck but get your priorities
straight......post some pics of the cruise and give us more
details.........but lay off the political stuff. ;-)

On Jun 23, 1:46?pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.

After returning from a cruise of the Alaska waters the last thing I would
think to post would be some political crap about global warming and
Hillary/Gore. Half of your post was devoted to that crap.

Glad to see you returned safely Chuck but get your priorities
straight......post some pics of the cruise and give us more
details.........but lay off the political stuff. ;-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My point was that global warming (observable via retreating glaciers
in AK and elsewhere) is supposed to be a *scientific* question and not
a political question. Both sides (as in yours as well as mine) of the
political spectrum foget that all too easily. The nay sayers often
ignore all evidence to that supports observations that the climate is
getting warmer, (and usually divert to remarks about Al Gore early
on). Those who believe the climate is getting warmer often tend to
overlook evidence that the warming may not be caused exclusively ore
even partially by nasty industrialist capitalism and excessive western
consumption.

My short story about observing the glacier from the cruise ship was
intended to illustrate how the topic becomes poliltical, not to take a
political side. Ergo my concluding comment about whether one is a
devout believer or devout disbeliever few who believe devoutly enough
at either end of the spectrum will ever be dissuaded by anything as
mundane as actual evidence.

However, as my personal bias is well known I do understand when bias
is read into something where it was never intended to be. I apologize
to any who interpreted my observations as a political remark.
Political remarks have no business in a recreational boating
newsgroup.

I have about 200 pictures to sort through. Views of glaciers, ice
bergs, and shots of Ketchikan, Juneau, and Skagway. (Really liked
Skagway a lot). Got a funny photo series taken by somebody else from
shore as we were rafting down the Mendenhall river. I got stationed at
the bow of the inflatable raft, and the first shot shows a raft full
of people mostly smiing and laughing as we shot some class 3 rapids.
I'm looking at a huge hole dead ahead, and so am slightly concerned in
the first photo. In the second photo, everybody is wide-eyed and
laughing....everybody except me. I don't show up in the second photo-
where I am supposed to be there is this enormous wave of ice cold
water that has splashed up high enough to engulf me entirely. Even
through the full body rain suit and pfd that water was *darn cold*!
(About 35-36 degrees). The guide said that people who fall in become
hypothermic in about two minutes.
I absolutely believe that......and it's based on evidence. :-)

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:13:18 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.

Maybe it was the Norwegian accent that got on people's nerves.

Other than the politics, what did you think of the cruise line. Would it be
worth a trip to Seattle to take such a cruise on the Norwegian Line?

On Jun 23, 4:47?pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:13:18 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.

Maybe it was the Norwegian accent that got on people's nerves.

Other than the politics, what did you think of the cruise line. Would it be
worth a trip to Seattle to take such a cruise on the Norwegian Line?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd recommend the cruise to anybody, especially folks from some of the
more geographically remote areas of the country and for whom nearly
all of the sights and experiences will be entirely new.

We booked on NCL, one of the "freestyle" cruise lines. Pluses and
minuses of the format: On the plus side, a wide variety of dining and
entertainment choices everyday. Some of the specialty restaurants were
probably 4-star caliber. Service was fantastic at every level from
housekeeping to bar service etc. Onboard entertainment was fair,
although the first night the featured band was supposedly "Kiss" (or
some loosely assembled former members of same) and if I had ever been
a Kiss fan I would have gone to check it out. I'm assuming that Gene
Simmons was *not* among the performers. On the minus side, nearly
everything was extra. The basic fare included unlimited dining in the
Market Cafe', essentially a buffet that is pretty similar to the
buffets found in Las Vegas casinos. There was also a sit-down
restaurant or two where there was no cover charge- but we opted to
dine at the steakhouse, the Asian restaurant, the French restaurant,
etc for every meal except breakfast and there was an upcharge of about
$20-$40 per meal for the privilege. Drinks were extra, and were not
cheap. Even soda pop was extra, and we paid $44 for a decent but far
from incredible bottle of Napa Valley Pinot Joir on our last night
underway.

There were "art auctions" every day, preceded by liberal quantities of
free champagne. (All sales were final) :-)

The relatively low fare was offset by a non-stop sales environment.
The ship's photographer was in everybody's face all the time, and
pictures were posted so that passengers enamored with their own
appearance could buy almost unlimited numbers of poses for $20 per
print. The Cruise line even hired a "shopping consultant", that held
seminars on finding the best values in Skagway, Juneau, and Ketchikan-
and to nobody's extreme surprise the best values were said to be at
the NCL owned shops in each of those ports. To comply with the Jones
act, we had to stop in Prince Rupert en route back to Seattle. NCL
apparently doesn't own any shops in Prince Rupert, as the shopping
consultant reportedly told the ladies in her audience that there was
"no shopping of any consequence in Prince Rupert."

Beware the ship's casino. Odds are abysmal for slots, video poker, or
any other games with adjustable payouts.....nobody is going to get
upset about losing too much money and go across the street to the next
casino. Odds are same as anywhere else for Blackjack, poker, roulette
(lousy odds, roulette), etc.

SE Alaska is rapidly becoming Disnified. Take Ketchikan, for example.
The guide in Ketchikan that took us river rafting told us that the
only thing really keeping the economy going there these days is the
cruise ship business. He said, "Several years ago WalMart came to town
and almost immediately put nearly all the Mom and Pop stores in
downtwon Ketchikan out of business. Most of the downtown area was for
rent, with no takers. The cruise ship lines came in and quietly rented
up all the vacant store fronts, opened a lot of jewelry and souvenier
shops, and then started bringing boat loads of tourists to Ketchikan
to shop in the stores that are owned by the cruise companies. There
are something like 6000 permanent residents of Ketchikan, but a lot of
days in the summer we get four cruise ships in port that bring in
about 10,000 tourists. That brings in another few thousand workers who
live here May- September to work in the tour businesses and staff the
souvenier shops. That creates a seasonal housing shortage and drives
rents out of sight during the summer months. By the first of October
they load up all the inventory from all the shops and relocate it to
the Caribbean, and all of the seasonal workers go home. Then it's all
over until the following spring."

We heard similar remarks in Skagway, where a guide that took us for a
hike up (a relatvely easy section of) the Chilkoot trail remarked that
there are less than 10 businesses in downtown Skagway that stay open
during the winter months.

Did see a grizzly bear during our Chilkoot trail adventure----but not
really up close and personal. The bear was feeding on something in a
grassy meadow on the other side of the river, certainly no closer than
100 yards away and maybe even a bit farther. We got a good look at his
head and the hump on his back, but the rest of the bear was hidden in
the vegetation----what a beautiful tawny brown color he was. Several
people sighted the smaller and more common black bears on various
beaches, etc, but I didn't personally see a black bear on this trip.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:49:17 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:47?pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:13:18 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.

Maybe it was the Norwegian accent that got on people's nerves.

Other than the politics, what did you think of the cruise line. Would it be
worth a trip to Seattle to take such a cruise on the Norwegian Line?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd recommend the cruise to anybody, especially folks from some of the
more geographically remote areas of the country and for whom nearly
all of the sights and experiences will be entirely new.

We booked on NCL, one of the "freestyle" cruise lines. Pluses and
minuses of the format: On the plus side, a wide variety of dining and
entertainment choices everyday. Some of the specialty restaurants were
probably 4-star caliber. Service was fantastic at every level from
housekeeping to bar service etc. Onboard entertainment was fair,
although the first night the featured band was supposedly "Kiss" (or
some loosely assembled former members of same) and if I had ever been
a Kiss fan I would have gone to check it out. I'm assuming that Gene
Simmons was *not* among the performers. On the minus side, nearly
everything was extra. The basic fare included unlimited dining in the
Market Cafe', essentially a buffet that is pretty similar to the
buffets found in Las Vegas casinos. There was also a sit-down
restaurant or two where there was no cover charge- but we opted to
dine at the steakhouse, the Asian restaurant, the French restaurant,
etc for every meal except breakfast and there was an upcharge of about
$20-$40 per meal for the privilege. Drinks were extra, and were not
cheap. Even soda pop was extra, and we paid $44 for a decent but far
from incredible bottle of Napa Valley Pinot Joir on our last night
underway.

There were "art auctions" every day, preceded by liberal quantities of
free champagne. (All sales were final) :-)

The relatively low fare was offset by a non-stop sales environment.
The ship's photographer was in everybody's face all the time, and
pictures were posted so that passengers enamored with their own
appearance could buy almost unlimited numbers of poses for $20 per
print. The Cruise line even hired a "shopping consultant", that held
seminars on finding the best values in Skagway, Juneau, and Ketchikan-
and to nobody's extreme surprise the best values were said to be at
the NCL owned shops in each of those ports. To comply with the Jones
act, we had to stop in Prince Rupert en route back to Seattle. NCL
apparently doesn't own any shops in Prince Rupert, as the shopping
consultant reportedly told the ladies in her audience that there was
"no shopping of any consequence in Prince Rupert."

Beware the ship's casino. Odds are abysmal for slots, video poker, or
any other games with adjustable payouts.....nobody is going to get
upset about losing too much money and go across the street to the next
casino. Odds are same as anywhere else for Blackjack, poker, roulette
(lousy odds, roulette), etc.

SE Alaska is rapidly becoming Disnified. Take Ketchikan, for example.
The guide in Ketchikan that took us river rafting told us that the
only thing really keeping the economy going there these days is the
cruise ship business. He said, "Several years ago WalMart came to town
and almost immediately put nearly all the Mom and Pop stores in
downtwon Ketchikan out of business. Most of the downtown area was for
rent, with no takers. The cruise ship lines came in and quietly rented
up all the vacant store fronts, opened a lot of jewelry and souvenier
shops, and then started bringing boat loads of tourists to Ketchikan
to shop in the stores that are owned by the cruise companies. There
are something like 6000 permanent residents of Ketchikan, but a lot of
days in the summer we get four cruise ships in port that bring in
about 10,000 tourists. That brings in another few thousand workers who
live here May- September to work in the tour businesses and staff the
souvenier shops. That creates a seasonal housing shortage and drives
rents out of sight during the summer months. By the first of October
they load up all the inventory from all the shops and relocate it to
the Caribbean, and all of the seasonal workers go home. Then it's all
over until the following spring."

We heard similar remarks in Skagway, where a guide that took us for a
hike up (a relatvely easy section of) the Chilkoot trail remarked that
there are less than 10 businesses in downtown Skagway that stay open
during the winter months.

Did see a grizzly bear during our Chilkoot trail adventure----but not
really up close and personal. The bear was feeding on something in a
grassy meadow on the other side of the river, certainly no closer than
100 yards away and maybe even a bit farther. We got a good look at his
head and the hump on his back, but the rest of the bear was hidden in
the vegetation----what a beautiful tawny brown color he was. Several
people sighted the smaller and more common black bears on various
beaches, etc, but I didn't personally see a black bear on this trip.

Thanks for all that! On the Disney cruise, all the various restaurants were
included in the price, except one. It had about a $25 surcharge, but it was
well worth it. I've heard that Disney is planning an Alaskan cruise
sometime in the fairly near future. Maybe I'll just wait until then to try
that trip.

Thanks again, Chuck, for all the info.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:13:18 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question

http://tinyurl.com/27on6c

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.


What was interesting was the Eagle Glacier outside Seward, AK. There are
markers as you hike the trail to the glacier of where the face was over the
years. From 1917-1926 was the major retreat. Maybe 300 yards. Tells me it
is not all mankinds fault.

On Jun 24, 11:22?am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Jun 22, 2:31?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Temps in the low '60s, reasonable humidity, winds NNW at 10,
occasional rain showers...

Man, this Global Warming is wonderful!

Heh, heh, heh...

Just got back from Alaska.

On one leg of our cruise ship vacation we motored up Endicott Arm,
(east of Juneau) and got up fairly close to the Daws glacier. (Got to
hand it to the Captain, I would never have thought anybody would
attempt to run a vessel of that size up through a snakey fjord filled
with ice bergs, but he did).

A lot of the passengers on this cruise seemed to hail from the south
and the midwest. Every time a whale would spout or somebody would spot
an eagle, a dolphin, etc there would be a chorus of oohs and aahs and
cameras would be snapping madly. (The scenery was a lot like Puget
Sound or SW BC, only a lot less populated, so it wasn't quite as
stunning or surprising for residents of the Pacific NW).

While stopped in sight of the glacier, one of the ship's Norwegian
officers gave a lecture over the PA system about glaciers. How they
form, why they're blue at the bottom, how many there are, etc.
Everybody listened with at least moderate interest until the officer
began mentioning the number of glaciers that have retreated
substantially or disappeared in Glacier National Park during the last
several years. You would have thought he had announced, "We support
Hillary for president." The crowd got pretty lippy. Comments like "Who
the hell is up on the bridge, Al Gore?" (and some worse) were
frequently heard. It was pretty obvious that the negative reaction was
*political*, not scientific.

The telling moment, for me, occured when the officer mentioned that
"as recently as 10,000 years ago much of the earth was covered by a
sheet of ice." Once person standing immediately behind me grumbled
"Not according to the Bible!", and another bystander confirmed that
sentiment by stating, "I guess it all depends on what you believe."
Indeed. As always, a solid belief or disbelief is unlikely to be
swayed by anything as trivial as actual evidence- on either side of
the question.

What was interesting was the Eagle Glacier outside Seward, AK. There are
markers as you hike the trail to the glacier of where the face was over the
years. From 1917-1926 was the major retreat. Maybe 300 yards. Tells me it
is not all mankinds fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's normal for individual glaciers to advance and retreat. Always has
been, for millions of years.

What is so unusual about current global climate conditions is that
nearly all glaciers are receding at once. Many are disappearing
entirely, and no new glaciers are appearing to take their place Yes,
there *are* exceptions to the prevailing conditions of glacial
retreat, just enough to prove the rule.

I don't know how much of it, if any, is mankind's fault--- but the
results will definitely be mankind's problem. Nobody is well served by
side-tracking this scientific concern into an "us vs. them" political
snot fight. If things come down as they well might, nobody is going to
be spared the consequences simply because he or she voted for the
prevailing candidate in the most recent election.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:47:23 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I don't know how much of it, if any, is mankind's fault--- but the
results will definitely be mankind's problem

http://tinyurl.com/262px5