Chilly Diesel Problems
 

On Feb 8, 8:33 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

. ..



All the above. The answer is blowing in the wind. Actually, it's because
the windshield is cold enough to selectively freeze the H20 content of the
"antifreeze". If you notice ... the wind does not even have to be blowing
in order to freeze a film on the windshield if you use the fluid and
wipers before the defroster starts to warm up the windshield.

I am focusing on wind chill because in your original post you confused
wind chill as being a factor of the temperature of a non-living object.
It isn't.

Eisboch

Actually, I think what I just said is incorrect. The freezing film you see
develop is water vapor in the air condensing and freezing on the cold
windshield. If you notice, the next squirt of washer fluid melts it, then
it occurs again and again until the windshield warms up.

Add that the "glass" is actually layered and you have a more
interesting
problem in that the inside of the glass is warmer than the outside
of the glass which causes more condensation in freezing conditions
and creates that "frosted" look and more use of that blue/pink stuff.

I just did an experiment because I was bored this morning. I
took two 12 inch dinner plates, placed one in the garage away
from the wind and one in a shady area exposed to the wind.
I placed an equal amount of tap water in each plate and waited
to see which froze first.

The freezing of each took the same amount of time.

So, there is the experiment.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

On Feb 8, 7:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

. ..







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?

Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
below the ambient temperature.

The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used and
heat is given off.

Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.

Eisboch

We're going in circles. Stop focusing on the words "wind chill". Focus on
this: Assume you're a chemist, and you know for a fact that you personally
have correctly created windshield washer fluid that doesn't freeze at (to
pick a number) zero F., why does that fluid actually freeze at a higher
temperature, say 5 F., when the vehicle is moving and the fluid hits the
windshield?

Since this phenomenon actually occurs, please base your next response on
that reality. Possible responses:
- "I don't know".
- "Here's why:...."
- "I'm posting a non-answer because I have nothing better to do".- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Eisboch has it right - it's condensate that freezes, not the actual
washer fluid.

Ehen you clear the wind screen with fluid on a cold morning, the
frost will disappear until the latent vapor in the atmosphere
re-freezes - that continues until two things happen - you warm up
the wind screen sufficiently to keep the vapor from freezing or until
you are moving fast enough for the vapor to be disappated (sp?)
before it has a chance to freeze.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

On Feb 8, 7:24 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in ooglegroups.com...





On Feb 8, 6:35 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

On Feb 7, 9:51 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

On Feb 7, 4:29 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message

roups.com...

Only living animals are subject to wind chill.

Question: If you put a liquid on a surface, and subject both to
moving
air,
will the surface be cooled by the evaporation of the liquid?

http://www.umext.maine.edu/emergency/9024.htm

Google "Wind Chill facts" if you need more information. ;-)

Nice link, but you did not answer the question. Here it is again:

Question: If you put a liquid on a surface, and subject both to
moving
air,
will the surface be cooled by the evaporation of the liquid?

Depends on the liquid.

Non-oily. Now what?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Depends on the temperature.

Your pink windshield washer fluid. Temp: -19 degrees F. Vehicle speed: 59
mph. You are wearing a dark green sweater and amber sunglasses.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No becasue it's enclosed and will only be affected by ambient
temperature inside the engine compartment.

What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Answered further on down.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 8, 7:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

. ..







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?

Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
below the ambient temperature.

The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used
and
heat is given off.

Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.

Eisboch

We're going in circles. Stop focusing on the words "wind chill". Focus
on
this: Assume you're a chemist, and you know for a fact that you
personally
have correctly created windshield washer fluid that doesn't freeze at (to
pick a number) zero F., why does that fluid actually freeze at a higher
temperature, say 5 F., when the vehicle is moving and the fluid hits the
windshield?

Since this phenomenon actually occurs, please base your next response on
that reality. Possible responses:
- "I don't know".
- "Here's why:...."
- "I'm posting a non-answer because I have nothing better to do".- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Eisboch has it right - it's condensate that freezes, not the actual
washer fluid.

Ehen you clear the wind screen with fluid on a cold morning, the
frost will disappear until the latent vapor in the atmosphere
re-freezes - that continues until two things happen - you warm up
the wind screen sufficiently to keep the vapor from freezing or until
you are moving fast enough for the vapor to be disappated (sp?)
before it has a chance to freeze.


Just e-mailed this question to my kid's physics teacher, who's always up for
a challenge. We'll see what he says. The condensate idea sounds plausible,
though.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?


Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
below the ambient temperature.

The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used and
heat is given off.

Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.

Eisboch

Wind Chill. I do not think it refers to living tissue. I think the
definition is how much heat transfer would occur in still air vs. Moving
air. some low speed of air. -15 degrees with a wind chill of -30, says the
same heat loss would occur if the temp was -30 and no wind movement.
Nothing to do with evaporation but with the tendency of the air to heat up
near the warmer object, slowing down heat transfer.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?


Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
below the ambient temperature.

The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used and
heat is given off.

Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.

Eisboch



We're going in circles. Stop focusing on the words "wind chill". Focus on
this: Assume you're a chemist, and you know for a fact that you personally
have correctly created windshield washer fluid that doesn't freeze at (to
pick a number) zero F., why does that fluid actually freeze at a higher
temperature, say 5 F., when the vehicle is moving and the fluid hits the
windshield?

Since this phenomenon actually occurs, please base your next response on
that reality. Possible responses:
- "I don't know".
- "Here's why:...."
- "I'm posting a non-answer because I have nothing better to do".


should not freeze at the 5F. But there will be some cooling via evaporation
but that is not "wind chill".

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
:"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
:
: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
: ...
:
:
: What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?
:
:
: Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
: below the ambient temperature.
:
: The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used and
: heat is given off.
:
: Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.
:
: Eisboch
:


:We're going in circles. Stop focusing on the words "wind chill". Focus on
:this: Assume you're a chemist, and you know for a fact that you personally
:have correctly created windshield washer fluid that doesn't freeze at (to
:pick a number) zero F., why does that fluid actually freeze at a higher
:temperature, say 5 F., when the vehicle is moving and the fluid hits the
:windshield?

Evaporation drives this. Evaporation cools things off; it can cool
things off below ambient temperature, despite multiple people in this
thread saying it can't. Think about how an evaporative cooler works,
or why an alcohol wipe is cool.
Increasing the surface area increases the rate of evaporation. A film
smeared across your windshield by the frozen wipers will evaporate
quickly, leaving a nice thin sheet of ice. Wind, real or apparent
from the car's motion, also increase the rate of evaporation. I also
expect that the alcohol in the solvent evaporates more quickly than
the water, so the ice on the window is mostly water.

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...


Wind Chill. I do not think it refers to living tissue. I think the
definition is how much heat transfer would occur in still air vs. Moving
air. some low speed of air. -15 degrees with a wind chill of -30, says
the same heat loss would occur if the temp was -30 and no wind movement.
Nothing to do with evaporation but with the tendency of the air to heat up
near the warmer object, slowing down heat transfer.


The term "Wind Chill" applies *only* to living tissue. It refers to the
rate of cooling (limited by the ambient temperature) that occurs to exposed
living tissue. The increased rate of cooling can exceed the living tissue's
ability to replace the heat lost and things like frostbite can quickly
occur.

The wind can't make it colder. It only makes the rate of heat transfer and
cooling of the object faster. Heat transfer is higher in turbulent flow.

Eisboch

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"David Scheidt" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
:"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
:
: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
: ...
:
:
: What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?
:
:
: Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
: below the ambient temperature.
:
: The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used
and
: heat is given off.
:
: Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.
:
: Eisboch
:


:We're going in circles. Stop focusing on the words "wind chill". Focus
on
:this: Assume you're a chemist, and you know for a fact that you
personally
:have correctly created windshield washer fluid that doesn't freeze at (to
:pick a number) zero F., why does that fluid actually freeze at a higher
:temperature, say 5 F., when the vehicle is moving and the fluid hits the
:windshield?

Evaporation drives this. Evaporation cools things off; it can cool
things off below ambient temperature, despite multiple people in this
thread saying it can't. Think about how an evaporative cooler works,
or why an alcohol wipe is cool.
Increasing the surface area increases the rate of evaporation. A film
smeared across your windshield by the frozen wipers will evaporate
quickly, leaving a nice thin sheet of ice. Wind, real or apparent
from the car's motion, also increase the rate of evaporation. I also
expect that the alcohol in the solvent evaporates more quickly than
the water, so the ice on the window is mostly water.



This is funny. A whole bunch of experts explaining 9th grade physics.

Eisboch

Chilly Diesel Problems
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


What about when it hits the windshield, under those same conditions?


Wind will cause an object to lose heat faster ... but will not cool it
below the ambient temperature.

The evaporation of a liquid is a state change whereby energy is used and
heat is given off.

Wind chill is a measurement of rapid cooling of living tissue.

Eisboch

Wind Chill. I do not think it refers to living tissue.

It is something that *only* living tissue can experience.