Portable AC
 

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
ps.com...

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
egroups.com...

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
legroups.com...

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
glegroups.com...

258Vista wrote:

Does anyone have any experience using one of these 12V portable
AC
units on a boat. They look like a good option, but I was
curious
if
anyone had any feedback on how they cool and how much ice they
use.
The website says 20lbs an hour which is a lot, wondering if
anyone
has
used this before. http://www.swampy.net/ac12.html

I'm wondering why the ice chest? Just to pump hot air in and suck
cold
out, might as well use a cardboard box.


You're not really that dumb, are you?

What difference would it make? The function of an ice chest is to
insulate. If you are pumping hot air into it, why would you need to
insulate it?

This unit works by pumping cold *water* through a heat exchanger, not
air
across ice.


If you think different, show me the science.

The science is basic- heat always moves to cold.
The cooler is insulating the ice from absorbing heat from whatever it
is
resting on, thus saving the ice for where it can be used more
efficiently-
in the heat exchanger.

Horse****!!! The science is cold is simply lack of heat. You are
blowing the same exact air across the ice that the ice would be exposed
to. If you are pumping 90 degree air into that cooler, what difference
would it make whether or not the container was insulated??? Try it.
Take a given amount of ice and put in a ice chest. Place another in a
cardboard box. Blow the same exact amount of air into each, with the
same exact equipment, and the same exact exhaust. Measure the
temperature of the exhaust. Guess what? They'll be the same.

You really are that dumb.

\Well, damn! Tell me HOW in the hell insulation would help if you are
pumping the exact same are that you are trying to insulate FROM right
into the cooler!!??? Again, see my last two sentences above. Try it.
Everything exactly the same except for the container. And again, if you
are pumping the same exact air into the chest that you are trying to
insulate from, just what IS the insulation doing? Take this for
instance. Take a piece of isopolycyanurate insulation outdoors. Take
the temperature on one side of the piece. Take the temperature on the
other side of the piece. Huh? They are the same? Imagine THAT! That is
exactly the scenario you'll see with the ice chest. You are pumping air
into it that is exactly the same temperature as that that you are
trying to insulate against. Dumb indeed!



Lets make this easier for you. I'll just repost 1 sentence. Try and
comprehend it then get back to me.

"This unit works by pumping cold *water* through a heat exchanger, not air
across ice."




You are responding to a person who believes that "schanpps" is "whiskey"

Beware.....he may try to "cow down" you next.

Portable AC
 

basskisser wrote:
Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Next, show me where anything I've stated in this thread goes against
the laws of thermodynamics. I'll be waiting for that, too. Unless you
want to admit you don't know what you're talking about. One of the
other.

Here it is again in case you missed it the first time-


" So, you do realize that that water, in order to cool with any noticeable
amount, would be quite warm, usually warmer than the ambient air
temperature, don't you?"

So, please explain how the cold water in the heat exchanger becomes warmer
than the ambient air.
I'll be waiting.
IN
Uh, perhaps by EXCHANGE of HEAT?
Now, please show which law of thermodynamics I've broken by what I've
stated.

In this type of system, where the working fluid does not undergo phase
changes or significant changes of pressure during it's cycle, it would
be impossible for the working fluid to become warmer than the ambient
air temperature and still cool the ambient air. Doing so would violate
the 2nd law of thermodynamics. One of the many equivalent statements
of that law is by Clausius, which is "Heat cannot of itself pass from a
colder to a hotter body."

For this system, if the working fluid became hotter than the air and is
still cooling the air, then heat is passing from a colder to a hotter
body, thus violating the 2nd law.

Portable AC
 

Arbitrator wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Next, show me where anything I've stated in this thread goes against
the laws of thermodynamics. I'll be waiting for that, too. Unless you
want to admit you don't know what you're talking about. One of the
other.
Here it is again in case you missed it the first time-


" So, you do realize that that water, in order to cool with any noticeable
amount, would be quite warm, usually warmer than the ambient air
temperature, don't you?"

So, please explain how the cold water in the heat exchanger becomes warmer
than the ambient air.
I'll be waiting.
IN
Uh, perhaps by EXCHANGE of HEAT?
Now, please show which law of thermodynamics I've broken by what I've
stated.

In this type of system, where the working fluid does not undergo phase
changes or significant changes of pressure during it's cycle, it would
be impossible for the working fluid to become warmer than the ambient
air temperature and still cool the ambient air. Doing so would violate
the 2nd law of thermodynamics. One of the many equivalent statements
of that law is by Clausius, which is "Heat cannot of itself pass from a
colder to a hotter body."

For this system, if the working fluid became hotter than the air and is
still cooling the air, then heat is passing from a colder to a hotter
body, thus violating the 2nd law.

Trust me on this, you are talking to a brick wall.

Portable AC
 

basskisser wrote:
Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
groups.com...

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
egroups.com...

Sam wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
legroups.com...

258Vista wrote:

Does anyone have any experience using one of these 12V portable AC
units on a boat. They look like a good option, but I was curious
if
anyone had any feedback on how they cool and how much ice they use.
The website says 20lbs an hour which is a lot, wondering if anyone
has
used this before. http://www.swampy.net/ac12.html

I'm wondering why the ice chest? Just to pump hot air in and suck
cold
out, might as well use a cardboard box.


You're not really that dumb, are you?

What difference would it make? The function of an ice chest is to
insulate. If you are pumping hot air into it, why would you need to
insulate it?

This unit works by pumping cold *water* through a heat exchanger, not air
across ice.


If you think different, show me the science.

The science is basic- heat always moves to cold.
The cooler is insulating the ice from absorbing heat from whatever it is
resting on, thus saving the ice for where it can be used more
efficiently-
in the heat exchanger.

Horse****!!! The science is cold is simply lack of heat. You are
blowing the same exact air across the ice that the ice would be exposed
to. If you are pumping 90 degree air into that cooler, what difference
would it make whether or not the container was insulated??? Try it.
Take a given amount of ice and put in a ice chest. Place another in a
cardboard box. Blow the same exact amount of air into each, with the
same exact equipment, and the same exact exhaust. Measure the
temperature of the exhaust. Guess what? They'll be the same.

You really are that dumb.


\Well, damn! Tell me HOW in the hell insulation would help if you are
pumping the exact same are that you are trying to insulate FROM right
into the cooler!!??? Again, see my last two sentences above. Try it.
Everything exactly the same except for the container. And again, if you
are pumping the same exact air into the chest that you are trying to
insulate from, just what IS the insulation doing? Take this for
instance. Take a piece of isopolycyanurate insulation outdoors. Take
the temperature on one side of the piece. Take the temperature on the
other side of the piece. Huh? They are the same? Imagine THAT! That is
exactly the scenario you'll see with the ice chest. You are pumping air
into it that is exactly the same temperature as that that you are
trying to insulate against. Dumb indeed!


"isopolycyanurate"? Let me help you with that big word...

Polyisocyanurate. It's sold at your local Home Depot under a variety of
brand names. IIRC, the R-value is 7.2 per inch - one of the best for
home sheathing.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Portable AC
 

You stated that the water in the heat exchanger will become warmer than
ambient.
If this were true the heat exchanger would be working in excess of 100%
efficiency, thus creating energy.

Sam, this guy is a serious joke. He argues for the sake of an argument. He's
a moron... don't waste your energy.

--Mike

"Sam" wrote in message news:Y52fh.883$IO5.733@trnddc01...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Next, show me where anything I've stated in this thread goes against
the laws of thermodynamics. I'll be waiting for that, too. Unless you
want to admit you don't know what you're talking about. One of the
other.

Here it is again in case you missed it the first time-


" So, you do realize that that water, in order to cool with any
noticeable
amount, would be quite warm, usually warmer than the ambient air
temperature, don't you?"

So, please explain how the cold water in the heat exchanger becomes
warmer
than the ambient air.
I'll be waiting.

Uh, perhaps by EXCHANGE of HEAT?
Now, please show which law of thermodynamics I've broken by what I've
stated.


At least the first law- energy cannot be created or destroyed.

You stated that the water in the heat exchanger will become warmer than
ambient.
If this were true the heat exchanger would be working in excess of 100%
efficiency, thus creating energy.

Portable AC
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

And again, if you are pumping warm water back into the ice chest, let's
just say AT ambient
temperature, the insulation of the chest will do no good.

Good for you, you finally made a statement that is true! *Once* the water
reaches ambient the insulation of the chest is worthless.

What you're failing to grasp is that up until that point the cooler is
focusing the heat gain at the heat exchanger where it is useful, whereas the
cardboard box will allow much more heat to be absorbed from the box itself,
the floor the box is sitting on, and the air around the box.

Portable AC
 

"Arbitrator" wrote in message
ups.com...


In this type of system, where the working fluid does not undergo phase
changes or significant changes of pressure during it's cycle, it would
be impossible for the working fluid to become warmer than the ambient
air temperature and still cool the ambient air. Doing so would violate
the 2nd law of thermodynamics. One of the many equivalent statements
of that law is by Clausius, which is "Heat cannot of itself pass from a
colder to a hotter body."

For this system, if the working fluid became hotter than the air and is
still cooling the air, then heat is passing from a colder to a hotter
body, thus violating the 2nd law.


Just to add to the confusion ....

When there *is* a phase change (i.e. water going from a liquid to a vapor
or visa versa) ... energy is consumed and is called the latent heat of
evaporation or, in the case of vapor to solid, the latent heat of
deposition. Whatever source provided that energy will become cooler. That
source could be ambient air temp, humans, whatever. It's why you may feel a
chill from a breeze on a hot, humid day when you are sweating or when you
first getting out of a hot shower. There are evaporative coolers made using
this principle although they are not as effective as AC units.

Eisboch

Portable AC
 

Harry Krause wrote:
On 12/10/2006 9:20 PM, Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Next, show me where anything I've stated in this thread goes against
the laws of thermodynamics. I'll be waiting for that, too. Unless you
want to admit you don't know what you're talking about. One of the
other.
Here it is again in case you missed it the first time-


" So, you do realize that that water, in order to cool with any
noticeable
amount, would be quite warm, usually warmer than the ambient air
temperature, don't you?"

So, please explain how the cold water in the heat exchanger becomes
warmer
than the ambient air.
I'll be waiting.
IN
Uh, perhaps by EXCHANGE of HEAT?
Now, please show which law of thermodynamics I've broken by what I've
stated.
In this type of system, where the working fluid does not undergo phase
changes or significant changes of pressure during it's cycle, it would
be impossible for the working fluid to become warmer than the ambient
air temperature and still cool the ambient air. Doing so would violate
the 2nd law of thermodynamics. One of the many equivalent statements
of that law is by Clausius, which is "Heat cannot of itself pass from a
colder to a hotter body."

For this system, if the working fluid became hotter than the air and is
still cooling the air, then heat is passing from a colder to a hotter
body, thus violating the 2nd law.

Trust me on this, you are talking to a brick wall.



Why would anyone trust someone like you, who posts here with 50
different identities?

No track record of lying.

Portable AC
 

Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Next, show me where anything I've stated in this thread goes against
the laws of thermodynamics. I'll be waiting for that, too. Unless you
want to admit you don't know what you're talking about. One of the
other.

Here it is again in case you missed it the first time-


" So, you do realize that that water, in order to cool with any
noticeable
amount, would be quite warm, usually warmer than the ambient air
temperature, don't you?"

So, please explain how the cold water in the heat exchanger becomes
warmer
than the ambient air.
I'll be waiting.

Uh, perhaps by EXCHANGE of HEAT?
Now, please show which law of thermodynamics I've broken by what I've
stated.


At least the first law- energy cannot be created or destroyed.

How? It's transferred, not created. That is why they call it HEAT
EXCHANGE.

You stated that the water in the heat exchanger will become warmer than
ambient.
If this were true the heat exchanger would be working in excess of 100%
efficiency, thus creating energy.

Uh, no it wouldn't. It would simply be EXCHANGING HEAT.
You keep forgetting that heat is nothing more than energy, and can be
stored.

Portable AC
 

Sam wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

James Sweet wrote:


Where did I ever say that the cold water didn't absorb heat to cool the
air?
Of course it does dimbulb.




So long as it has ice in it, the temperature will remain quite constant.
The energy is absorbed by the state change from solid to liquid water.
As soon as all the ice is gone, the temperature will start to rise
pretty quickly, but it will never go over ambient air temperature.

Go turn on your A/C for awhile, feel the return line. It will be quite
a bit warmer than ambient temperature. And again, if you are pumping
warm water back into the ice chest, let's just say AT ambient
temperature, the insulation of the chest will do no good.


LOL!

You're a joke a minute.

Your petty insults prove without a doubt that you are unable to give an
explanation or proof of why the ice in the ice chest would be more
efficient at cooling the ambient air with this particular system, than
when it was in a cardboard box, or other vessel.