This is a big problem for me. The outboard motor does this
every time it's 1st time in the water cold just off the trailer, it
"turning on the key, the
starter motor just clicks, turn the key again and it clicks again,
after about 20-30 clicks on the key to start, the starter motor starts
to spin catching the top gear to crank" sometimes I have to manually
spin the starter motor to the "catch" position then hit the key to
start, sometimes it'll just click, but the more agressive you get with
clicking juice to the starter motor by turning the key to the on
position, the more it becomes "alive" and starts to crank normally.

I've managed to get the motor to start every time but it's very
annoying to have to sit there at the boat dock (with everyone watching)

while I click, click, click, click, (take motor cover off), click,
(spin the starter motor by hand), click, click, (starter motor starts
to move), click, click, and then finally the starter motor "clicks in"
and cranks and starts, pushing the key to choke (of course).

Running the motor for a few minutes cures it totally. I can restart the
motor fine all day after getting it going.

I'm thinking now I either have a potential circuit problem to the
starter motor, perhaps a solenoid, or a bad starter motor is there any
way I can
troubleshoot this prior to taking the boat back to the marina for
another look? I do have a volt meter available.

I'd appreciate any insight on diagnosing / troubleshooting (list) if
this a circuit problem,
juice to the starter problem (need voltage numbers and how to check),
or if I have a bad starter motor (intermittently failing - how do you
check that - other than swap in a new part?)...etc. Has anyone
experienced this "cold" type of clicking behavior from the starter
motor?

wrote:
This is a big problem for me. The outboard motor does this
every time it's 1st time in the water cold just off the trailer, it
"turning on the key, the
starter motor just clicks, turn the key again and it clicks again,
after about 20-30 clicks on the key to start, the starter motor starts
to spin catching the top gear to crank" sometimes I have to manually
spin the starter motor to the "catch" position then hit the key to
start, sometimes it'll just click, but the more agressive you get with
clicking juice to the starter motor by turning the key to the on
position, the more it becomes "alive" and starts to crank normally.

I've managed to get the motor to start every time but it's very
annoying to have to sit there at the boat dock (with everyone watching)

while I click, click, click, click, (take motor cover off), click,
(spin the starter motor by hand), click, click, (starter motor starts
to move), click, click, and then finally the starter motor "clicks in"
and cranks and starts, pushing the key to choke (of course).

Running the motor for a few minutes cures it totally. I can restart the
motor fine all day after getting it going.

I'm thinking now I either have a potential circuit problem to the
starter motor, perhaps a solenoid, or a bad starter motor is there any
way I can
troubleshoot this prior to taking the boat back to the marina for
another look? I do have a volt meter available.

I'd appreciate any insight on diagnosing / troubleshooting (list) if
this a circuit problem,
juice to the starter problem (need voltage numbers and how to check),
or if I have a bad starter motor (intermittently failing - how do you
check that - other than swap in a new part?)...etc. Has anyone
experienced this "cold" type of clicking behavior from the starter
motor?


High resistance in the solenoid.

Replace it.

Rob

Tom, I think the starter and solonoid relay are seperate. , it sounds
to me, though, that the drive needs some light oil ont he shaft, and/or
the drive has some burrs on the pinion gear, where the teath are
blunted. A new "bendix isn't expensive for that starter. I'd get one
through a parts store, instead of through a dealer. they can be had for
about half price that way.

To save gross humiliation, it could be that the battery is weak. Yep.
Oh it's good enough to crank the engine, but not good enough to really
hit the starter hard. These starters take quite a bit of power to
literally force the gear into place in the flywheel. To save public
humiliation, you might experiment at home with the battery/starter
demise, by putting the engine on the muffs, hook a boost or jumper
cables to the battery then hit the key and see if the drive pinion
doesn't engage properly., jut a wild shot that the extra boost will
make the starter work fine.

I'm thinking that after the engine has been run for a bit, that the
battery has gained a decent surface charge, so you get the extra
starter torque.

again, though, inspect the drive gear and the fly wheel to make sure
that the teeth arn't blunted, and are free from burrs. put some "2 in
1" or another light oil on the shaft as well.

Good luck!


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 13 Sep 2006 18:44:21 -0700, wrote:

I'd appreciate any insight on diagnosing / troubleshooting (list) if
this a circuit problem,
juice to the starter problem (need voltage numbers and how to check),
or if I have a bad starter motor (intermittently failing - how do you
check that - other than swap in a new part?)...etc. Has anyone
experienced this "cold" type of clicking behavior from the starter
motor?

It's most likely the solenoid which I believe is not a separate part
for that engine - it's integral to the starter, but I could be wrong
on that.

Just do the usual stuff - clean/check the connections, check the
battery cables, check the battery - maybe you have a deal cell or
similar, clean and tighten all connections.

If all is well to the starter connections, then it's most likely the
starter/solenoid combination.

this is very simple.
I had a '70 johnson that did the same thing.

What happened is that the starting relay(aka solenoid) plunger was
bottoming out before the contacts were made. This was caused by wear
(arcing) of the contacts which had worn down over time. All I did was
take appart the solenoid and file off some of the lenght of the plunger
and then the contacts reliably made it.

Of course the proper answer is go buy a new solenoid, but this was
easier than getting in the car and driving down to the dealer.

These old ones are goodies but things do start to wear out.

Have fun.

Don


wrote:
Tom, I think the starter and solonoid relay are seperate. , it sounds
to me, though, that the drive needs some light oil ont he shaft, and/or
the drive has some burrs on the pinion gear, where the teath are
blunted. A new "bendix isn't expensive for that starter. I'd get one
through a parts store, instead of through a dealer. they can be had for
about half price that way.

To save gross humiliation, it could be that the battery is weak. Yep.
Oh it's good enough to crank the engine, but not good enough to really
hit the starter hard. These starters take quite a bit of power to
literally force the gear into place in the flywheel. To save public
humiliation, you might experiment at home with the battery/starter
demise, by putting the engine on the muffs, hook a boost or jumper
cables to the battery then hit the key and see if the drive pinion
doesn't engage properly., jut a wild shot that the extra boost will
make the starter work fine.

I'm thinking that after the engine has been run for a bit, that the
battery has gained a decent surface charge, so you get the extra
starter torque.

again, though, inspect the drive gear and the fly wheel to make sure
that the teeth arn't blunted, and are free from burrs. put some "2 in
1" or another light oil on the shaft as well.

Good luck!


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 13 Sep 2006 18:44:21 -0700, wrote:

I'd appreciate any insight on diagnosing / troubleshooting (list) if
this a circuit problem,
juice to the starter problem (need voltage numbers and how to check),
or if I have a bad starter motor (intermittently failing - how do you
check that - other than swap in a new part?)...etc. Has anyone
experienced this "cold" type of clicking behavior from the starter
motor?

It's most likely the solenoid which I believe is not a separate part
for that engine - it's integral to the starter, but I could be wrong
on that.

Just do the usual stuff - clean/check the connections, check the
battery cables, check the battery - maybe you have a deal cell or
similar, clean and tighten all connections.

If all is well to the starter connections, then it's most likely the
starter/solenoid combination.

High resistance in the solenoid.

Replace it.

Rob

Great info and many thanks! My plan of attack (cheapest to expensive):

1) Check all electrical connections to the solenoid, charge battery,
check all connections under the transom and tighten any thing that
looks loose...etc., wd-40 (dry) the connections, if failure then 2.

2) WD-40 the starter motor shaft and pinion gear; inspect for burrs or
wear, if clean of burrs and shaft well oiled, if failure then 3.

3) take out old solenoid and check the plunger / file - make sure the
contacts are clean - replace and test, if failure then 4.

4) replace the solinoid; swap out old one with new one ($36.00usd), if
failure then 5.

5) replace with refurbished (Johnson) bosch or prestolite starter motor
(approx $160.00usd for the refurbished part/ $225usd new) , if failure
then 6.

6) throw hands up; trailer the boat to the shop, at any point this
get's fixed - see you out on the lake fishin and water skiing! I'll
update when figured out. I'll keep the rec.boats updated on the fix
(may take a couple of weeks).

Bon Voyage and off to work on the 15' Crestliner (that boat jumps out
of the water with that 100hp Johonson on the back) I go - thanks
everyone; this one is nipped in the bud!

You have it right....

-W

wrote in message

Great info and many thanks! My plan of attack (cheapest to expensive):

1) Check all electrical connections to the solenoid, charge battery,
check all connections under the transom and tighten any thing that
looks loose...etc., wd-40 (dry) the connections, if failure then 2.

2) WD-40 the starter motor shaft and pinion gear; inspect for burrs or
wear, if clean of burrs and shaft well oiled, if failure then 3.

3) take out old solenoid and check the plunger / file - make sure the
contacts are clean - replace and test, if failure then 4.

4) replace the solinoid; swap out old one with new one ($36.00usd), if
failure then 5.

5) replace with refurbished (Johnson) bosch or prestolite starter motor
(approx $160.00usd for the refurbished part/ $225usd new) , if failure
then 6.

6) throw hands up; trailer the boat to the shop, at any point this
get's fixed - see you out on the lake fishin and water skiing! I'll
update when figured out. I'll keep the rec.boats updated on the fix
(may take a couple of weeks).

Bon Voyage and off to work on the 15' Crestliner (that boat jumps out
of the water with that 100hp Johonson on the back) I go - thanks
everyone; this one is nipped in the bud!

Clams Canino wrote:
You have it right....

-W


Well I tore up the solenoid trying to figure out the plunger deal. The
back plate was riveted (4) to the bakelight casing. Well I broke three
of the Solinoid bakelight thermoset plastic casing mounts to the back
plate, swung it open, and the plunger looks good to me - there is a
cork ring around the center base and aluminum mouting base plate. In
fact there's really not much you can do to this thing under the base
cover.

I'm looking at a round silver disc about the size of a silver dollar.
The center is cut away like it's a big washer in the center is a small
yellow piece of plastic with an electrical lead runing to it. Since
I've already busted the unit - I ain't messing with that small of a
electro magnetic plunger thingy - lookin for contacts etc. Way to
intricate if you ask me. Oh well on to the part store to pick up that
new solienoid.

wrote in message
ups.com...

.. Since
I've already busted the unit - I ain't messing with that small of a
electro magnetic plunger thingy - lookin for contacts etc. Way to
intricate if you ask me. Oh well on to the part store to pick up that
new solienoid.


For your safety and for the safety of your loved ones along with innocent
bystanders, buy the OEM solenoid from a Johnson-Evinrude dealer. Your
starter solenoid is mounted in an environment with gas fumes around it, and
the factory unit is designed for marine use and for containing any spark to
avoid "blowing up" the motor should the gasoline fumes reach a critical
concentration.

Automotive or "universal" solenoids may look similar but are not wired the
same internally as yours, besides being unsafe for marine applications.

Bill Grannis
service manager

For your safety and for the safety of your loved ones along with innocent
bystanders, buy the OEM solenoid from a Johnson-Evinrude dealer. Your
starter solenoid is mounted in an environment with gas fumes around it, and
the factory unit is designed for marine use and for containing any spark to
avoid "blowing up" the motor should the gasoline fumes reach a critical
concentration.

Automotive or "universal" solenoids may look similar but are not wired the
same internally as yours, besides being unsafe for marine applications.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Well I get the "money down the drain award." I ripped out the POWER
TRIM solenoid located under the transom inside electrical box, (not the
starter relay/solenoid) broke off the back of the Trim solenoid as in
thinking this was the STARTER solenoid to fix.

Now I'm picking up now two new solenoids to fix this cold hard start
issue. I now understand that the 'starter solenoid' is mounted next to
the starter motor on the motor. Thank Bill very good advice. Taking out
the Trim solenoid I did touch something to ground and there was a huge
blue spark - no fumes or fire but could've been serious if there were
fumes or gas floatin around in the back under the transom.

I guess I should have said that I'm a very cautious tedius person when
it comes to taking things appart. The problem with my solenoid was
that due to wear that large collar was not making contact inside. I
was very careful about drilling out those rivets and then when I put it
back together I sealed it up with RTV to make sure that it was
waterproof again. Bear in mind I was actually able to take appart and
repair the defective power lock motors in my suburban. I didn't really
intend to do that but my curiousity about "what the heck is failing"
paid off. But you do have to be pretty anal to fix things like that.

Good news is that I suspect that those solenoids are pretty cheap. The
other obvious test is just to take a car jumper cable and jumper around
that solenoid and if everything else is ok the starter should fire
right up.

Keep going. Worst case you will just damage something else but you
will have learned a lot and saved yourself from watching TV.

Good luck

Don


wrote:
For your safety and for the safety of your loved ones along with innocent
bystanders, buy the OEM solenoid from a Johnson-Evinrude dealer. Your
starter solenoid is mounted in an environment with gas fumes around it, and
the factory unit is designed for marine use and for containing any spark to
avoid "blowing up" the motor should the gasoline fumes reach a critical
concentration.

Automotive or "universal" solenoids may look similar but are not wired the
same internally as yours, besides being unsafe for marine applications.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Well I get the "money down the drain award." I ripped out the POWER
TRIM solenoid located under the transom inside electrical box, (not the
starter relay/solenoid) broke off the back of the Trim solenoid as in
thinking this was the STARTER solenoid to fix.

Now I'm picking up now two new solenoids to fix this cold hard start
issue. I now understand that the 'starter solenoid' is mounted next to
the starter motor on the motor. Thank Bill very good advice. Taking out
the Trim solenoid I did touch something to ground and there was a huge
blue spark - no fumes or fire but could've been serious if there were
fumes or gas floatin around in the back under the transom.