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It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Kind of like the 450-pound diabetic trying to buy medical insurance- it wouldn't be fair to the 190-pound jogger to just average the two of them together and charge them both the same rate as one is many times more likely to suffer an expensive incident than the other. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message .net... It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Your house insurance is next. And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are going to take a beating on their market value because of these things related to insurance and insurability. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are going to take a beating on their market value because of these things related to insurance and insurability. Wait until all those interest-only mortgages start coming due...that market is going to collapse and blow wide open. When we first bought a house in Jupiter, Fl. in 2001, we were unable to get a full insurance policy due to the effects of Andrew on the insurance companies. Nobody was accepting new policy applications. A couple of years later some companies started writing policies again ... until we got three hurricanes in one year. House insurance, at least in the area we were in, has become prohibitively expensive, if you can even get it. We were very lucky to sell when we did. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation. BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in CFL. Jim |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Jim" wrote in message k.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation. BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in CFL. Jim But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation. BBBBut it's warm there in the winter. We freeze our arses off here in CFL. Jim But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there. Eisboch Wadaya mean "UP THERE"? Last time I knew, you were hanging around the 42nd parallel waiting for back to back sunshine days. Jim |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Jim" wrote in message k.net... "Eisboch" wrote in message ... But baby pineapples and bananas are out of season up there. Eisboch Wadaya mean "UP THERE"? Last time I knew, you were hanging around the 42nd parallel waiting for back to back sunshine days. Jim Let me gloat for a while. I'll be bitching up a storm in about three months. The "switch" still works up here. Fall is in the air. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation. Any idea what losing the Florida boat market will do to the boating industry for boats over 30' and valued over $100,000? You can bet that the most popular booth at this year's Miami International Boat Show will be the insurance agents. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Your house insurance is next. And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are going to take a beating on their market value because of these things related to insurance and insurability. Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message .net... It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Your house insurance is next. And I would think all those high dollar houses near and on the water are going to take a beating on their market value because of these things related to insurance and insurability. Wait until all those interest-only mortgages start coming due...that market is going to collapse and blow wide open. Not likely for the high-end market (over $1 million) because 60% of those buyers paid cash (or would have paid cash if interest rates weren't at 4.5% two years ago). But the entry-level and mid-level market could get hammered. Sales this year in June are about 1/3 of last years sales. The median price for the year fell 6%, but the median price in June and July actually increased. Naples is not a normal market. Some houses went up 80-100% in the past 5 years. A 10-15% correction isn't going to hurt anybody who bought more than a year ago. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans. Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans. Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. What is a better example of interstate commerce than an insurance company headquartered in Hartford, CT selling an insurance product to a guy down in Florida? The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. A 35' trailer? Nope...not for longer than 6 hours due to code enforcement. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. That's pricless. Gore the right ox, and suddenly even the staunchest of conservatives is calling for more government regulation of private industry. :-) All the comparisons about terrorist threats being greater in NY, Seattle, Chicago or what not don't have anything to do with why your boat insurance is so high and whether or not it should be so high based on the risk you choose to run by living where hurricanes are commonplace. Your boat insurance premuims aren't underwriting losses suffered by terrorist attack in large cities, and if there is some sort of insurance premium one can pay to be insured against loss by terrorism- none of that money if going into a fund to buy new boats for Floridians who get smashed up by a hurricane. The insurance companies should not be forced to sell you cheap insurance, or even accept ridiculous levels of risk if they don't want to. Falls under the category of free enterprise, don't you know. I'd like to buy insurance against getting one year older next birthday- but there isn't anybody willing to write it at any price because it is a certainty that if I live to my next birthday I will indeed be a year older. Rather than call for government regulation forcing people to sell policies that don't make any sense, I think I'll just adapt to getting older. Seriously, it's a darn shame that you guys are having trouble buying boat insurance down there- but no company should be forced to make suicidal business decisions just to make boating more convenient in the hurricane zone. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. Store it some place further away. If it is $100 / month, and that seems high, as I pay $53 / month for a 25' slot in California, land of high prices. You may save a lot more than that on insurance. And if it is 10'6" wide, how many tickets will be written during an evacuation? And you can rent a truck to tow it, or hire a mover for it. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. That's pricless. Gore the right ox, and suddenly even the staunchest of conservatives is calling for more government regulation of private industry. :-) All the comparisons about terrorist threats being greater in NY, Seattle, Chicago or what not don't have anything to do with why your boat insurance is so high and whether or not it should be so high based on the risk you choose to run by living where hurricanes are commonplace. Your boat insurance premuims aren't underwriting losses suffered by terrorist attack in large cities, and if there is some sort of insurance premium one can pay to be insured against loss by terrorism- none of that money if going into a fund to buy new boats for Floridians who get smashed up by a hurricane. The insurance companies should not be forced to sell you cheap insurance, or even accept ridiculous levels of risk if they don't want to. Falls under the category of free enterprise, don't you know. I'd like to buy insurance against getting one year older next birthday- but there isn't anybody willing to write it at any price because it is a certainty that if I live to my next birthday I will indeed be a year older. Rather than call for government regulation forcing people to sell policies that don't make any sense, I think I'll just adapt to getting older. Seriously, it's a darn shame that you guys are having trouble buying boat insurance down there- but no company should be forced to make suicidal business decisions just to make boating more convenient in the hurricane zone. Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message .net... Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100 years at the time we bought. Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits three times. Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:30:56 +0000, NOYB wrote:
I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. As in many states, Florida does regulate insurance companies. "Insurance companies are private businesses that must make a profit to survive and fulfill their ability to pay claims filed by insureds. It is a highly regulated, carefully controlled profit, however. Rates for nearly all lines of insurance must be approved by the Office of Insurance Regulation. The maximum allowable rate of return is generally 5 percent, with 2 to 3 percent returns more typical on an actual basis. Excess profit laws exist in several lines of insurance requiring automatic rate rollbacks when the maximum approved profit level is exceeded. They have been rarely activated." From: http://www.flains.org/public/ht_irate.html-ssi |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? Hmmmm, and I thought the odds were the same. Nor should our tax dollars pay for the cleanup in New Orleans. Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Insurance companies are not in the business of losing money nor should they be forced to. Don't like it? Move. Otherwise accept the consequences of your choice to live in hurricane alley. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. More proof that south Florida is not fit for human habitation. Yep, that's what they get for living in that skeeter infested hellhole! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 24 Aug 2006 07:13:21 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ Well, I wasn't going boating this week anyway. By next week it'll be fixed and the price will be back to normal. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:13:21 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ Well, I wasn't going boating this week anyway. By next week it'll be fixed and the price will be back to normal. -- So, how come you're not out there fishing?? |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable.
And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. As I've said before, NOYB, you're not really a conservative. You're a socialist dressed up to party in a theocratic dictatorship suit. Regards Doug King |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. Whoa, what happened to the republican mantra of a few years ago, when you righties wanted every industry deregulated? |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 Damn, that's cheap. It's $3.01 down here. And $3.79 on the water. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:30:56 +0000, NOYB wrote: I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. As in many states, Florida does regulate insurance companies. But the Feds have no regulatory control. They're exempt from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act! "Insurance companies are private businesses that must make a profit to survive and fulfill their ability to pay claims filed by insureds. It is a highly regulated, carefully controlled profit, however. Rates for nearly all lines of insurance must be approved by the Office of Insurance Regulation. The maximum allowable rate of return is generally 5 percent, with 2 to 3 percent returns more typical on an actual basis. Excess profit laws exist in several lines of insurance requiring automatic rate rollbacks when the maximum approved profit level is exceeded. They have been rarely activated." That's precisely the problem. Companies just decide that they're not going to do business in the states that create tougher regulations...which leaves the government impotent in helping the people. Now if there were uniform Federal standards instead of individual state standards, the companies couldn't cherry-pick which states that they want to do business in. That's the idea behind Association Health Plans (a.k.a. Small Business Health Fairness Act). |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 24 Aug 2006 07:41:02 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:13:21 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ Well, I wasn't going boating this week anyway. By next week it'll be fixed and the price will be back to normal. -- So, how come you're not out there fishing?? Spending too much time trying to learn how to hit a golf ball. I'll be moving the boat down to the Rappahannock River in a couple weeks so the kids can use it also. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"DSK" wrote in message ... Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! Senator Nelson (D-NE) is one of the plan's cosponsors. But the rest of his party voted in May to oppose invoking cloture, thereby obstructing a vote on the issue. The vote to invoke cloture was 56-43...but 60 votes were needed to bring it to a vote. I'd like to see the insurance industry regulated the way that public utilities like power companies are regulated. As I've said before, NOYB, you're not really a conservative. You're a socialist dressed up to party in a theocratic dictatorship suit. Good, so I defy labels. It makes it harder for you to dismiss my argument as purely partisan rhetoric. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. DSK wrote: Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! I'm pleased to report that we are involved in slowing down passage of S. 545, 545 is the House version. It passed overwhelmingly. The Senate version is S.1955. It has 56 votes in favor of it, but Democrats used a procedural loophole to block the vote on it. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1955 |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. DSK wrote: Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! I'm pleased to report that we are involved in slowing down passage of S. 545, aka the Small Business Health Fairness Act. Of course you (unions) are. Unions already have the priviledge to buy insurance across state lines. There's nothing wrong with the basis concept, but there are plenty of problems with the Bill's proposed implementation. 1. The Act exempts association health plans from state laws and regulations, and therefore eliminates consumer protection and coverage requirements. Bull****. I'd bet that your insurance doesn't conform to Maryland's insurance regulations, because your union purchases it in a state with less regulation. You'd lose your bet. 2. The insurers would have no incentive to cover preventive care or many expensive procedures if the law did not require them to do so. Then regulate them at the Federal level so that they can't cherry-pick which states to do business in. 3. AHPs open the door for cherry picking. Bull**** again. The insurance companies already cherry pick which states have the least regulation, and sell most of their products there. AHP's would eliminate cherry-picking, not increase it. I suspect my knowledge of the health insurance industry from the insurer's POV is a bit more sophisticated than yours. Oh goody! You're speaking from the insurer's and the union's point of view. No wonder you're opposed to AHP's. They'd help small businesses (and the 60% of the workers in this country employed by small businesses), but they're no good for insurance companies, labor unions, or corporations because it might affect their bottom line if there was actual competition in the health insurance market. All one has to do is look at the list of the folks who oppose AHP's, and it becomes evident just why they oppose them. And it's not for any of the smoke and mirror reasons that you stated above. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... "Eisboch" wrote in message ... Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat insurance up there. No, but I can't buy (or afford) coverage to go south of Norfolk if I were inclined. Also, insurance companies have not had billions of dollars of claims up here in the past 3 years. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100 years at the time we bought. Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits three times. Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat insurance up there. So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium. Nope, nope, and already doing that. As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. DSK wrote: Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! I'm pleased to report that we are involved in slowing down passage of S. 545, aka the Small Business Health Fairness Act. Of course you (unions) are. Unions already have the priviledge to buy insurance across state lines. There's nothing wrong with the basis concept, but there are plenty of problems with the Bill's proposed implementation. 1. The Act exempts association health plans from state laws and regulations, and therefore eliminates consumer protection and coverage requirements. Bull****. I'd bet that your insurance doesn't conform to Maryland's insurance regulations, because your union purchases it in a state with less regulation. You'd lose your bet. 2. The insurers would have no incentive to cover preventive care or many expensive procedures if the law did not require them to do so. Then regulate them at the Federal level so that they can't cherry-pick which states to do business in. 3. AHPs open the door for cherry picking. Bull**** again. The insurance companies already cherry pick which states have the least regulation, and sell most of their products there. AHP's would eliminate cherry-picking, not increase it. I suspect my knowledge of the health insurance industry from the insurer's POV is a bit more sophisticated than yours. Oh goody! You're speaking from the insurer's and the union's point of view. No wonder you're opposed to AHP's. They'd help small businesses (and the 60% of the workers in this country employed by small businesses), but they're no good for insurance companies, labor unions, or corporations because it might affect their bottom line if there was actual competition in the health insurance market. All one has to do is look at the list of the folks who oppose AHP's, and it becomes evident just why they oppose them. And it's not for any of the smoke and mirror reasons that you stated above. Right...expertise from the dentist with the highly leveraged, overpriced house on which he can't park a boat trailer and the boat he can't insure. We were talking about health insurance and AHP's. I guarantee you that I have a better grasp of that issue than a public relations guy spewing out the company line for a labor union. |
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