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It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. This is kind of silly. Most people do not have their homes appraised unless there is a reason to do so, e.g., preparation for a sale, a re-finance, argument with assessor, increasing amount of insurance, et cetera. It usually costs $300 to $500 for a professional appraisal, at least it does around here (Maryland). As for NOYB's mortage, my recollection is that he has stated he has an interest-only mortgage on his house. Beyond that, the specifics are none of my business. I believe, interest only-mortgages are going to be a big time problem for a LOT of people in this country. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. Haven't been around long, huh? He's proud of his interest only mortgage! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
ACP wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. This is kind of silly. Most people do not have their homes appraised unless there is a reason to do so, e.g., preparation for a sale, a re-finance, argument with assessor, increasing amount of insurance, et cetera. It usually costs $300 to $500 for a professional appraisal, at least it does around here (Maryland). As for NOYB's mortage, my recollection is that he has stated he has an interest-only mortgage on his house. Beyond that, the specifics are none of my business. I believe, interest only-mortgages are going to be a big time problem for a LOT of people in this country. Yes, now that the bubble has burst in a lot of markets. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 25 Aug 2006 05:05:13 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:41:02 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:13:21 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ Well, I wasn't going boating this week anyway. By next week it'll be fixed and the price will be back to normal. -- So, how come you're not out there fishing?? Spending too much time trying to learn how to hit a golf ball. I'll be moving the boat down to the Rappahannock River in a couple weeks so the kids can use it also. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John I'm hauling to Lake Hartwell this weekend for some striper fishing. When you get back, tell us how it went. Leave out the politics though! And...good luck! -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 25 Aug 2006 05:07:50 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? If he's been in the place three years or more, chances are good that he's way ahead of the game, and good for him! Here's a site for a quick appraisal. It's been pretty accurate when compared to what's been selling around here. http://www.zillow.com/ -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"basskisser" wrote in message ps.com... ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. Haven't been around long, huh? He's proud of his interest only mortgage! It doesn't adjust for another 2 1/2 years. I'll have my business loan paid off by then, and have another $6,000/month ($4500/month after taxes) to pay for any rate adjustment. But keep in mind that I had a rate of 4.25% locked for 5 years. If I had a done a conventional 30 year loan at the time, the rate was around 6%. I will have saved over $55,000 in interest for the first 5 years of living in my house. Even if rates bump 2 points in 2009, and another 2 points in 2010, it would take until 2012 or 2013 until I'd have spent the same amount that I would have spent on a conventional 30 year mortgage from the get-go. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... ACP wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. This is kind of silly. Most people do not have their homes appraised unless there is a reason to do so, e.g., preparation for a sale, a re-finance, argument with assessor, increasing amount of insurance, et cetera. It usually costs $300 to $500 for a professional appraisal, at least it does around here (Maryland). As for NOYB's mortage, my recollection is that he has stated he has an interest-only mortgage on his house. Beyond that, the specifics are none of my business. I believe, interest only-mortgages are going to be a big time problem for a LOT of people in this country. Yes, now that the bubble has burst in a lot of markets. The bubble has not burst. The bubble may not be inflating, but the bubble is still big. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
At it's peak, Zillow had my house priced at $1.56 million (earlier this
year). Now, Zillow says it's worth $1.373 million. I paid $825k in 3/04. Even in a worst-case scenario, I have three to four hundred thousand more in equity in my home right now than when I bought it in March 2004. If I didn't get an interest-only loan at the time, I couldn't have bought my house. Today, I could afford to pay $825k with a conventional fixed mortgage...but the selling price would be $500,000 higher and I wouldn't have been able to buy it. I looked at my interest-only loan as a way to lock in 2004's price for 5 years down the road. When my rate adjusts, I simply "re-buy" my house for $825k...even though it will be worth considerably more than that. "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 25 Aug 2006 05:07:50 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? If he's been in the place three years or more, chances are good that he's way ahead of the game, and good for him! Here's a site for a quick appraisal. It's been pretty accurate when compared to what's been selling around here. http://www.zillow.com/ -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:45:59 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
At it's peak, Zillow had my house priced at $1.56 million (earlier this year). Now, Zillow says it's worth $1.373 million. I paid $825k in 3/04. Even in a worst-case scenario, I have three to four hundred thousand more in equity in my home right now than when I bought it in March 2004. If I didn't get an interest-only loan at the time, I couldn't have bought my house. Today, I could afford to pay $825k with a conventional fixed mortgage...but the selling price would be $500,000 higher and I wouldn't have been able to buy it. I looked at my interest-only loan as a way to lock in 2004's price for 5 years down the road. When my rate adjusts, I simply "re-buy" my house for $825k...even though it will be worth considerably more than that. You did good! I say that even though we're going round and round with a dentist now. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
sip
I say that even though we're going round and round with a dentist now. What the heck does that mean? -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
If I didn't get an interest-only loan at the time, I couldn't have bought my house. In other words, you could only afford it at all under special conditions... conditions that amount to "play now, pay later.' I looked at my interest-only loan as a way to lock in 2004's price for 5 years down the road. When my rate adjusts, I simply "re-buy" my house for $825k...even though it will be worth considerably more than that. Maybe. If it's still standing. Earlier you said that the lower interest rate on the first years of the ARM would save you $55K... the only way you can actually take this gain is if you could afford the higher payment & invest the savings in something that gives a higher return that the interest on the loan... relatively easy to find in these days. You say you can't afford to do that, therefor you're not really gaining anything other than a big fancy overpriced house. And think about this: banks can do math. Why would they hand you a profit they could take for themselves? Answer: risk! DSK |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
DSK wrote: NOYB wrote: If I didn't get an interest-only loan at the time, I couldn't have bought my house. In other words, you could only afford it at all under special conditions... conditions that amount to "play now, pay later.' Form: http://www.stock-market-crash.net/florida.htm Florida Real Estate Bubble The 1920's, in America, were a time of great prosperity. Skilled and educated working Americans had jobs providing numerous fringe benefits, paid vacations and pensions. In addition, automobiles were becoming commonplace for the wealthy and middle class allowing cross country travel. This good fortune set the stage for the Florida real estate bubble. Starting in 1920, many Americans became enamored by the materialistic and prosperous lifestyle of the time. During this time, the stock market was moving forward at an extremely fast pace. Many investors were becoming quite wealthy. Florida became a hot spot for these newly rich people, who didn't enjoy the cold. Many whole families took vacations to Florida. It was at this point that tourism started booming and land prices were skyrocketing. Many astute investors took notice and started buying Florida real estate. The population in Florida was growing exponentially and housing couldn't meet the demand. Florida became the "playground of the rich and famous". Illegal casinos and drinking parlors became widespread in Miami. At this point, almost anybody could invest in Florida, even without much money. Credit was plentiful and soon everybody in Florida was either a real estate investor or a real estate agent. In 1922, the Miami Herald became the heaviest newspaper in the world as a result of its humongous real estate advertisements. People in the North heard about the real estate prices "doubling and tripling", causing a snowball effect. Capital was rapidly pumped into the real estate market. Whole golf communities were developed, such as Temple Terrace. Resorts and retirement communities were developed almost overnight. Mansions were sprawling in every area, as were swimming pools. As always, waterfront property was the most desirable. Florida was seen as a veritable Utopia. Real estate prices quadrupled in less than one year. An elderly man invested $1,700 in property and by 1925 the property was worth over $300,000! It seemed you could do no wrong by just buying any property in Florida and become a millionaire. By 1925, real estate prices had become so exorbitant that buying land wasn't affordable any longer. New investors failed to arrive and old investors started to sell. Panic arrived, as it always does, and the real estate market crashed. Prices kept moving downwards as heavily indebted investors tried to sell to avoid bankruptcy. In most cases, no buyers arrived, and the investors were bankrupt from the enormous mortgages. To make matters even worse, a highly destructive hurricane ravaged South Florida in September 1926. The 125 mile an hour winds eventually turned Palm Beach County into swamp lands. After the storm, a huge tidal wave crashed upon the towns of Belle Glade and Moore Haven. Due to these horrible turn of events, over 13,000 homes were destroyed and 415 people died. Additionally, the arrival of the Mediterranean fruit fly obliterated the large citrus industry. It took years for Florida to fully recover, even through the highly prosperous time from 1925 to 1929. Florida was barely affected in the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression, because of its poor financial state from the start. Market crashes always occur in the same manner. Regardless of the market, the same simple psychological underpinnings are always at work. People who are caught up in a bubble never look back for historical examples. For this folly, they become paupers. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... "basskisser" wrote in message ps.com... ACP wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? I didn't catch where he said his home is mortgaged. Not all of us have mortgages. Haven't been around long, huh? He's proud of his interest only mortgage! It doesn't adjust for another 2 1/2 years. I'll have my business loan paid off by then, and have another $6,000/month ($4500/month after taxes) to pay for any rate adjustment. But keep in mind that I had a rate of 4.25% locked for 5 years. If I had a done a conventional 30 year loan at the time, the rate was around 6%. I will have saved over $55,000 in interest for the first 5 years of living in my house. Even if rates bump 2 points in 2009, and another 2 points in 2010, it would take until 2012 or 2013 until I'd have spent the same amount that I would have spent on a conventional 30 year mortgage from the get-go. Not to mention the tax deduction you get......which likely makes your effective rate around 3% Kevin apparently still has not mastered Econ 101 |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. = Actually, I would think you probably could. I know you'd get a ticket if you got caught, and in an evactuation scenerio, I don't hink the cops would be checking for such. but I really don't think it would be that much outstanding. To me it would be totally worth the expense of a fine, compared to what the insurance, or lack of , would and could be. YMMV |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world.
-W "NOYB" wrote in message .net... It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. |
Insurance discussion was: It's not fuel prices...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:50:32 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:26:27 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote: Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. When Nobby wrote this, I became immediately interested in this and did some asking around with some people I know in the insurance business. Apparently, even liability insurance is going to become hard to get. The complete lack of common sense in the small boating world is getting to them. For example, yesterday, I was talking with a DCR cop before I launched (safety inspection of the boat) up at Lake Chargogagoggmanchaugagoggchabungamungagogg, he said that him and his partner wrote eleven tickets in 2 hours for everything from no PFDs to overloaded boats with no PFDs, no fire extinguishers, children w/o PFDs, etc. He wrote one pontoon boat up with 12 people on board with open containers and the driver was .97 on the BA. I don't know this for a fact you understand - that's just what I was told - but companies have been taking a beating on boat insurance to the point where it's not profitable anymore. I know with my Ranger, which has a total replacement policy, boat, motor, trailer and gear at a stated value, when I installed the new E-TEC 200, I insured it for full replacement value of $17,000 - my insurance doubled. I didn't change the value of the boat or trailer - just the engine. I have never had a claim - ever - over 25 years with the same company and they doubled my insurance premium. When I checked with two other companies, I was surprised to learn they don't write stated value replacement policies anymore and as to value, they will only write a depreciated value - meaning that the lowest value even if the boat is perfect and well maintained. It's only going to get worse. I must be very lucky. My current insurance runs $336/year for $26,500 limit on the boat and trailer. I've got to call and have them adjust the limit downwards to the current market value, which I'm guessing is in the $15K range. Where to get an estimate of current fair market value?? -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. |
Insurance discussion was: It's not fuel prices...
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:50:32 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:26:27 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote: Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. When Nobby wrote this, I became immediately interested in this and did some asking around with some people I know in the insurance business. Apparently, even liability insurance is going to become hard to get. The complete lack of common sense in the small boating world is getting to them. For example, yesterday, I was talking with a DCR cop before I launched (safety inspection of the boat) up at Lake Chargogagoggmanchaugagoggchabungamungagogg, he said that him and his partner wrote eleven tickets in 2 hours for everything from no PFDs to overloaded boats with no PFDs, no fire extinguishers, children w/o PFDs, etc. He wrote one pontoon boat up with 12 people on board with open containers and the driver was .97 on the BA. I don't know this for a fact you understand - that's just what I was told - but companies have been taking a beating on boat insurance to the point where it's not profitable anymore. I know with my Ranger, which has a total replacement policy, boat, motor, trailer and gear at a stated value, when I installed the new E-TEC 200, I insured it for full replacement value of $17,000 - my insurance doubled. I didn't change the value of the boat or trailer - just the engine. I have never had a claim - ever - over 25 years with the same company and they doubled my insurance premium. When I checked with two other companies, I was surprised to learn they don't write stated value replacement policies anymore and as to value, they will only write a depreciated value - meaning that the lowest value even if the boat is perfect and well maintained. It's only going to get worse. I must be very lucky. My current insurance runs $336/year for $26,500 limit on the boat and trailer. I've got to call and have them adjust the limit downwards to the current market value, which I'm guessing is in the $15K range. I wouldn't change a thing with your current policy. If you bring attention to your current policy, they'll find a way to raise it. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
basskisser wrote:
NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message rthlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. That right. Think small & pay cash. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. I did for every boat I've owned up until now. I just didn't have 100 grand laying around, but I could afford the payments. I don't know too many guys in their mid-30's who have a house, boat, car, etc. paid for in cash. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Eeeek.
-W "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... "Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Clams Canino" wrote in message k.net... Eeeek. Yup. No different from a home mortgage. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. I did for every boat I've owned up until now. I just didn't have 100 grand laying around, but I could afford the payments. I don't know too many guys in their mid-30's who have a house, boat, car, etc. paid for in cash. I know many, many people who paid cash for their boats. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message arthlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. I did for every boat I've owned up until now. I just didn't have 100 grand laying around, but I could afford the payments. I don't know too many guys in their mid-30's who have a house, boat, car, etc. paid for in cash. You paid for that house in cash? Thought I read that you mortgaged it and only make interest payments. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. I suppose..we all don't have a way of getting our hands into the purses & pockets of the blue rinse crowd. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:26:35 GMT, Don White wrote:
NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message . earthlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. I did for every boat I've owned up until now. I just didn't have 100 grand laying around, but I could afford the payments. I don't know too many guys in their mid-30's who have a house, boat, car, etc. paid for in cash. You paid for that house in cash? Thought I read that you mortgaged it and only make interest payments. I think you missed a few posts, or you misunderstood what you read. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JohnH wrote:
On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John Since I was the one who advised to "think small", I thought NOYB was jabbing at me. Maybe I should have said 'think modestly'. Obviously some here have no need to even consider that, but I stand by my common sense advice. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- No, I didn't think he was passing judgement on me. He was, however, passing judgement on Don. As I said before, that's all he does here is pass judgement on others. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Don White wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John Since I was the one who advised to "think small", I thought NOYB was jabbing at me. Maybe I should have said 'think modestly'. Obviously some here have no need to even consider that, but I stand by my common sense advice. NOYB can't think small, because the stuff he has is making up for his lack of manhood! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:09:03 GMT, Don White wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John Since I was the one who advised to "think small", I thought NOYB was jabbing at me. Maybe I should have said 'think modestly'. Obviously some here have no need to even consider that, but I stand by my common sense advice. Nah. He came back with a bit of philosophy to counteract the bit you gave him. He's already bought his boat, so 'thinking small' wouldn't work for this one anyway. Thinking small is what I'm doing for my *next* boat - maybe a 17-18'er. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 27 Aug 2006 13:07:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
Don White wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John Since I was the one who advised to "think small", I thought NOYB was jabbing at me. Maybe I should have said 'think modestly'. Obviously some here have no need to even consider that, but I stand by my common sense advice. NOYB can't think small, because the stuff he has is making up for his lack of manhood! Attack mode. Why? You weren't attacked. Here it is, a nice Sunday, lot's of friendly conversation on a range of subjects, and you come in like a rabid pit bull... Why? What does it serve? -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On 27 Aug 2006 13:05:45 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 10:47:03 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 27 Aug 2006 09:12:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Think small No thanks. Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life. You think that because someone has a boat that they really like, although it may be smaller than yours is "unmotivated"? Do you think that just because someone isn't financially overextended is "unmotivated"? I think that people who overextend just for appearances are fools. bk, do you think that NOYB was trying to be controversial in his statement? Maybe he was just saying how *he* feels about life, and not passing any judgements on others. Why the attacks? It's a nice Sunday...chill out. -- No, John, he certainly was, and always has, passed judgements on others. I'm discussing only the post you responded to, not the past few years. I'm surprised that you'd take a philosophical comment like, "Thinking small is for the unmotivated in life" as a personal attack or the passing of judgement on you. -- No, I didn't think he was passing judgement on me. He was, however, passing judgement on Don. As I said before, that's all he does here is pass judgement on others. OK, you stated your opinion. My opinion is different. In either case, they're both opinions. NOYB has talked of his practice, his house, his boat, his insurance, his fishing, his finances, and his politics, among other things. None of that is 'passing judgement', so to say that's *all* he does here wouldn't be quite truthful, would it? -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Don White" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message . earthlink.net... Insure it for liability only and accept your own risks in this world. Can't. The bank requires insurance that covers the loan amount. Pay cash. I did for every boat I've owned up until now. I just didn't have 100 grand laying around, but I could afford the payments. I don't know too many guys in their mid-30's who have a house, boat, car, etc. paid for in cash. You paid for that house in cash? Thought I read that you mortgaged it and only make interest payments. Read what he wrote again, he didn't write that "he" paid cash for everything. |
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