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It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999. Only if Hillary is President. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: But the Feds have no regulatory control. They're exempt from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act! Now if there were uniform Federal standards instead of individual state standards, the companies couldn't cherry-pick which states that they want to do business in. Hey there, whoever you are, get the heck off the computer and stop forging NOYB's id. NOYB is a conservative. To hear him calling for increased government control and for the FEDGOV to ride roughshod over local control and states' rights would be as shocking as, well,........learning that Pluto isn't really a planet! It doesn't make any sense for boat insurance companies to "average" the risk of loss against all policies in the country. It makes more sense for an individual's boat insurance premiums to reflect, as accurately as possible, his or her personal risk of loss. We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period. After all, what sort of premiums can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each month just to delay their certain death? It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss" that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a hurricane in a specific location every year. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100 years at the time we bought. Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits three times. Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat insurance up there. So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium. Nope, nope, and already doing that. As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry. It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time. Look at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina. Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 Damn, that's cheap. It's $3.01 down here. And $3.79 on the water. $3.82 one place on the water. Where I launched was $3.57 and he said it is cheapest on water in the Sacramento Delta. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time. Look at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina. Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong. The guy that runs the little convenience store here at Kingman has a condo in Stuwart, FL where he and his wife winter. He told me this morning that the insurance on his condo just went up by $2k/yr. Eisboch |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... Gene Kearns wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 Damn, that's cheap. It's $3.01 down here. And $3.79 on the water. $2.46 at the local BP this afternoon. ;-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999. ...and NOYB will have to throw his boat in to sweeten the deal! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period. Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work. After all, what sort of premiums can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each month just to delay their certain death? Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government law that sees to that. It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss" that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a hurricane in a specific location every year. Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999. Only if Hillary is President. Don't bet on that. You guys are in for a big let down price wise sometime soon. This insurance problem will only hasten that process. ;-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100 years at the time we bought. Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits three times. Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat insurance up there. So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium. Nope, nope, and already doing that. As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry. It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time. The $3000 *is* my renewal cost. I was paying $2100...but that was before the new motors added $30k to the insured value. Look at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina. Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong. You and I already bail those folks out via the taxes we pay to the "insurer-of-last-resort (a.k.a. the US Government). How many billion did the Federal Gov't spend on Katrina? Wouldn't it be simpler (yet, cost the individual taxpayer no more) if we all paid into a national disaster relief insurance fund that reinsured the insurance companies? It could be used to cover you guys in California when the next brush fire or earthquake hits, the folks in the midwest when the next flood or tornado comes along, people in Florida and the Gulf and Atlantic states when a hurricane comes along, and the folks in the major cities when the next terrorist attack occurs. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:31:10 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period. Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work. After all, what sort of premiums can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each month just to delay their certain death? Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government law that sees to that. It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss" that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a hurricane in a specific location every year. Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population. A while back one of our beloved group members had a day filled with misfortune. Someone suggested that maybe the misfortune was just a little 'bad karma'. The person making the suggestion was jumped on by the same folks who seem glee-filled at the thought that you may have some misfortune with your home or boat. Here's hoping everything works out for you, NOYB, even if you *do* post too much political crap! I wonder if you could find a farmer somewhere who may store that trailer for you? Picking up an additional $50 a month, or so, may be something he'd do for the little room it would take. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:52 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. Wanna bet? Give it to me for a week - I won't do anything other than operate it and guaranteed, something will be broken, go icky balooky, take on water - something similar. :) Then I'll be sure to file a claim in advance of any approaching storm named Hurricane Tom. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:31:10 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message groups.com... We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period. Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work. After all, what sort of premiums can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each month just to delay their certain death? Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government law that sees to that. It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss" that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a hurricane in a specific location every year. Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population. A while back one of our beloved group members had a day filled with misfortune. Someone suggested that maybe the misfortune was just a little 'bad karma'. The person making the suggestion was jumped on by the same folks who seem glee-filled at the thought that you may have some misfortune with your home or boat. Here's hoping everything works out for you, NOYB, even if you *do* post too much political crap! I wonder if you could find a farmer somewhere who may store that trailer for you? Picking up an additional $50 a month, or so, may be something he'd do for the little room it would take. As I said before, this thread isn't about me or my predicament. I'm fully insured, and not worried about any financial hardship any time soon. Of course there are a bunch of folks here on rec.boats who would love to see me fall flat on my back once or twice, but unfortunately for them that's not going to happen. I started this thread because I thought it would be a good conversation-starter about how the insurance companies are likely to do more harm to the boat business than gas prices. Yet, hardly a week goes by before someone starts a bitching and whining session about how gas prices are going to kill the boating market. Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand). What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of Floridians. It was rec.boat's most liberal forum members who adopted the "I-got-mine-so-screw-you" mentality. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. But the fact that all of the boat insurance companies completely pulled out of the state needs to be addressed. As long as each state sets their own insurance regulations, companies will continue to cherry-pick the states that it's cheapest and easiest to do business in. But considering all of the special treatment that insurance companies get via Congress (ie--McCarron-Ferguson Act, special tax consideration, etc), they ought to be regulated to some degree at the Federal level. And they should be forced to offer coverage no matter which state someone lives in (albeit at a higher rate if warranted). |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand). What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of Floridians. It was rec.boat's most liberal forum members who adopted the "I-got-mine-so-screw-you" mentality. I save my sympathy for hard-working Americans who were wiped out by the various storms, not for dentists who game the system. Yes, of course. Class warfare. As for Bush, well, just about everyone in his party running for re-election this fall is running away from him. Baloney. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. ;-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit! But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of November through March......... ;-) We even got Canada to join in this effort! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
As I said before, this thread isn't about me or my predicament. Is that your disclaimer against whining? I started this thread because I thought it would be a good conversation-starter about how the insurance companies are likely to do more harm to the boat business than gas prices. I don't see it that way, largely because I don't see how you define "harm to the boat business" and partly because I see "the boating business" as largely responsible for the mess it's in. And it's dragged a lot of boaters with it. .... Yet, hardly a week goes by before someone starts a bitching and whining session about how gas prices are going to kill the boating market. But nobody ever does anything about it, of course. People still drive their SUVs at 80mph. Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand). No, but Bush & Cheney are responsible for deliberately making the U.S. more dependent on oil, thus foreign imports & Middle East politics, rather than less. So yeah, it's pretty much his fault. What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of Floridians. Funny you should see it this way. Wealthy boat owners are not really much of a liberal constituency. And frankly, I don't have much sympathy myself for people who indulge in conspicuous consumption just because it's aggressively marketed to them, and then whine that somebody else should help them afford what they've become accustomed to. There are many possible solutions to the problem, at least one of which can be resolved thru individual fiscal responsibility .... anybody else think it's comical that a self-proclaimed 'conservative' didn't think of that? Regards Doug King |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:bLednetImuvZlHPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast. com... "NOYB" wrote in message . earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:eJudnQsF4Psof3DZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcas t.com... "NOYB" wrote in message as.earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:x7idnWlNUOXFEXDZnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@comc ast.com... "NOYB" wrote in message .earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:64KdnZjWt71RYXHZnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@co mcast.com... "NOYB" wrote in message s.earthlink.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message news:1156365986.935319.53920@b28g2000c wb.googlegroups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit! But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of November through March......... ;-) We even got Canada to join in this effort! Darn right. Anything to teach those Sunshine Boys a lesson. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand). George or Jeb? Eisboch :-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand). George or Jeb? Eisboch :-) George now. Jeb in '08 through '16. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit! But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of November through March......... ;-) We even got Canada to join in this effort! I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on my car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to work (weekends!), I'm on the boat. Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay their bills on time. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Don White" wrote in message ... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999. ..and NOYB will have to throw his boat in to sweeten the deal! The boat is an albatross until it depreciates to a value less than $100k. Insurance companies won't insure for more than $100k on boats 30' or more in length. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit! But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of November through March......... ;-) We even got Canada to join in this effort! I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on my car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to work (weekends!), I'm on the boat. Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay their bills on time. Looks like we need to add a couple of classes, including 'How to keep putting off paying your Florida dentist' and 'Tactics on creating traffic jams in downtown and residential Naples'. ;-) |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:bLednetImuvZlHPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast .com... "NOYB" wrote in message .earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:eJudnQsF4Psof3DZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comca st.com... "NOYB" wrote in message . pas.earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:x7idnWlNUOXFEXDZnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@com cast.com... "NOYB" wrote in message s.earthlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message news:64KdnZjWt71RYXHZnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@c omcast.com... "NOYB" wrote in message as.earthlink.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message news:1156365986.935319.53920@b28g2000 cwb.googlegroups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house. Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals were in the discussion for that reason. I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again sometime in the future. I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest. The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans. I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are also feeling the pinch. Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow. Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit! But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of November through March......... ;-) We even got Canada to join in this effort! I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on my car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to work (weekends!), I'm on the boat. Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay their bills on time. Yup.. lots of gold to mine in those 'Blue Rinse' mouths. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:52 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. Wanna bet? Give it to me for a week - I won't do anything other than operate it and guaranteed, something will be broken, go icky balooky, take on water - something similar. :) Gain at least 500#. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day. Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100 years at the time we bought. Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits three times. Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does. Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat insurance up there. So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium. Nope, nope, and already doing that. As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry. It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time. The $3000 *is* my renewal cost. I was paying $2100...but that was before the new motors added $30k to the insured value. Look at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina. Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong. You and I already bail those folks out via the taxes we pay to the "insurer-of-last-resort (a.k.a. the US Government). How many billion did the Federal Gov't spend on Katrina? Wouldn't it be simpler (yet, cost the individual taxpayer no more) if we all paid into a national disaster relief insurance fund that reinsured the insurance companies? It could be used to cover you guys in California when the next brush fire or earthquake hits, the folks in the midwest when the next flood or tornado comes along, people in Florida and the Gulf and Atlantic states when a hurricane comes along, and the folks in the major cities when the next terrorist attack occurs. Lots of places that the government will not help the victims of natural disasters. All those river flood zones along the Mississippi River that used to flood yearly or so and still do. The Fed's told them last payment. Lots of the Louisiana rebuilding by the Fed's is total vote pandering. Why should we gift money for a new house and life to someone. Guarantee a loan maybe, but not give them a house. Help the state with infrastructure rebuilding, but not total payment. We are still paying into funds to rebuild the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. How come the Fed's did not pay for all that? If you want the Fed's to bail out people who build on flood plains, and next to the beach where global warming and wind storms will damage the property, maybe the Fed's should have a veto in zoning? Where are State and local rights then? |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:13:49 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
Insurance companies won't insure for more than $100k on boats 30' or more in length. Depends on the insurance company, there are obviously many insured boats over 30 ft and $100K residing in SWFL, mine among them. Not to say that insurance isn't an issue, it is. Our premiums just went up $1K per year for no reason other than residing here, and we did have some difficulty getting insurance even before Charlie and the others. My advice would be to check with some of the yacht insurance brokers in Ft Lauderdale. You may not like their rates or restrictions but they can almost always find a policy for you. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:37:21 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
Wouldn't it be simpler (yet, cost the individual taxpayer no more) if we all paid into a national disaster relief insurance fund that reinsured the insurance companies? What makes you think the government could run an efficient reinsurance business? Their success with social security, the IRS and the FBI? Everything the federal government touches becomes loaded down with regulatory and political bloat. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:37:21 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Wouldn't it be simpler (yet, cost the individual taxpayer no more) if we all paid into a national disaster relief insurance fund that reinsured the insurance companies? What makes you think the government could run an efficient reinsurance business? Their success with social security, the IRS and the FBI? Everything the federal government touches becomes loaded down with regulatory and political bloat. They could force the insurance companies to establish their own reinsurance business. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:13:49 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Insurance companies won't insure for more than $100k on boats 30' or more in length. Depends on the insurance company, there are obviously many insured boats over 30 ft and $100K residing in SWFL, mine among them. Just for kicks, call around to other insurance companies and see if they'll insure your boat. If you're not already with them, they won't insure it. Not to say that insurance isn't an issue, it is. Our premiums just went up $1K per year for no reason other than residing here, and we did have some difficulty getting insurance even before Charlie and the others. My advice would be to check with some of the yacht insurance brokers in Ft Lauderdale. You may not like their rates or restrictions but they can almost always find a policy for you. As I said, I'm with Boat US already, but switching to a new company is impossible if I wanted to. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote:
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. But the fact that all of the boat insurance companies completely pulled out of the state needs to be addressed. As long as each state sets their own insurance regulations, companies will continue to cherry-pick the states that it's cheapest and easiest to do business in. But considering all of the special treatment that insurance companies get via Congress (ie--McCarron-Ferguson Act, special tax consideration, etc), they ought to be regulated to some degree at the Federal level. And they should be forced to offer coverage no matter which state someone lives in (albeit at a higher rate if warranted). NYOB, I agree, rates should be risk adjusted, but they should not be allowed to just pull out of a market and cherry pick the low risk states. The idea is of insurance is the risk is spread among the insured, but you and those in high risk areas should pay substantially higher rates following risk assessment and risk management based upon actual claims. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. DSK wrote: Don't complain about your high insurance costs or your being uninsurable. And don't expect taxpayers to pay the bill so you can build a new house after your is destroyed by a hurricane. *You* chose to purchase a house in hurricane alley. You knew the risks and you are now paying the price. NOYB wrote: I don't mind paying the price. It's not the cost that I'm complaining about. It's the fact that there is no insurance company willing to write a new policy for a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000...unless that boat is a 2002 or newer. Isn't that complaining about cost? All you have to do is go buy a new boat. If you pre-2002 boat is truly perfect, then all you have to do is get a custom builder to crank out an exact replica. Money doesn't solve everything, but it can easily solve problems like that. The problem with insurance companies is that there is no federal oversight (thanks to the McCarron-Ferguson Act), and they're not subject to anti-trust legislation. It's the only industry that has that has the benefit of such an unlevel playing field. Congress has the Constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. And not so very long ago, the Republican battle cry was "Deregulation!" So these things come & go in cycles. The entire problem spills over directly to health insurance too. Corporations, labor unions, and the US government can buy their insurance in a state that has affordable premiums and cheap coverage, and provide that coverage for members no matter where they live. Small businesses have no such luxury, because Senate Democrats have managed to stall a vote on the Small Business Health Fairness Act. That's right, I knew you'd find a way to blame the Democrats. But hey, as long as *you* do it, it's not partisan hackery! I'm pleased to report that we are involved in slowing down passage of S. 545, aka the Small Business Health Fairness Act. Of course you (unions) are. Unions already have the priviledge to buy insurance across state lines. There's nothing wrong with the basis concept, but there are plenty of problems with the Bill's proposed implementation. 1. The Act exempts association health plans from state laws and regulations, and therefore eliminates consumer protection and coverage requirements. Bull****. I'd bet that your insurance doesn't conform to Maryland's insurance regulations, because your union purchases it in a state with less regulation. You'd lose your bet. 2. The insurers would have no incentive to cover preventive care or many expensive procedures if the law did not require them to do so. Then regulate them at the Federal level so that they can't cherry-pick which states to do business in. 3. AHPs open the door for cherry picking. Bull**** again. The insurance companies already cherry pick which states have the least regulation, and sell most of their products there. AHP's would eliminate cherry-picking, not increase it. I suspect my knowledge of the health insurance industry from the insurer's POV is a bit more sophisticated than yours. Oh goody! You're speaking from the insurer's and the union's point of view. No wonder you're opposed to AHP's. They'd help small businesses (and the 60% of the workers in this country employed by small businesses), but they're no good for insurance companies, labor unions, or corporations because it might affect their bottom line if there was actual competition in the health insurance market. All one has to do is look at the list of the folks who oppose AHP's, and it becomes evident just why they oppose them. And it's not for any of the smoke and mirror reasons that you stated above. Right...expertise from the dentist with the highly leveraged, overpriced house on which he can't park a boat trailer and the boat he can't insure. Bingo! |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote: NOYB wrote: " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive, and 2 or three others. All said the same thing: no dice. Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's valued at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year. I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under $3000/year. I was looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going to happen. Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in Florida now: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1 Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them. Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through. Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a blast furnace. Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane zone or not. Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc. There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target. Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live. And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly related to where we choose to live. So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like insurance has nothing to do with taxes. BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003? 2002? How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period? I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes only. Here is a very interesting link for you Doc: http://www.collierem.org/never.htm =================================== In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes. After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years! Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look: a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7 years! b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a category five. Now THAT Was a Close Call! (Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples) Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969 (Jenny), 1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey) Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna) ('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on To Your Hat! Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples 1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph) ================ And you were saying? ;-) My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years. And my house has never caught on fire either. Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat? All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it. Did you read the article I posted a link to? I haven't had time yet. I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance rates on boats. But the fact that all of the boat insurance companies completely pulled out of the state needs to be addressed. As long as each state sets their own insurance regulations, companies will continue to cherry-pick the states that it's cheapest and easiest to do business in. But considering all of the special treatment that insurance companies get via Congress (ie--McCarron-Ferguson Act, special tax consideration, etc), they ought to be regulated to some degree at the Federal level. And they should be forced to offer coverage no matter which state someone lives in (albeit at a higher rate if warranted). NYOB, I agree, rates should be risk adjusted, but they should not be allowed to just pull out of a market.....snip Why not? It happens all the time. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:41:02 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JohnH wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 07:13:21 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Gene wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92 gallon at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that this evening. You may want to look a bit further for the real problem: as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61 -- Anybody notice that as of today, the amount of oil coming out of Prudoe Bay has been cut in half AGAIN? Sure seems a tad odd that when the price per barrel starts coming down, a new problem arises to push it back up! http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS...p.pipeline.ap/ Well, I wasn't going boating this week anyway. By next week it'll be fixed and the price will be back to normal. -- So, how come you're not out there fishing?? Spending too much time trying to learn how to hit a golf ball. I'll be moving the boat down to the Rappahannock River in a couple weeks so the kids can use it also. -- ****************************************** ***** Hope your day is great! ***** ****************************************** John I'm hauling to Lake Hartwell this weekend for some striper fishing. |
It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible to insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the boat: a) doesn't have a trailer and/or b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if they're over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000) Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you. I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap. The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would need a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm approached or whatever. If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered? No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000. A 2002 would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly $5000/year. I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay $150/month storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And I'd need something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide. No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat trailer? Incredible. Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest only loan! My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell tomorrow. But, what does it appraise for NOW as opposed to what you've paid for it, and how much of that has been soaked up by the interest rate you're paying?? |
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