I am thinking of buying a boat with 2 or 3 partners. At most, I'd use the
boat twice a week next summer (and same with the other partners) So
there's plenty of time for 3 or 4 people to share the boat.... And, of
course, this will spread docking, insurance, repair and storage costs 4
ways..... Any comments on this approach? Any hidden caveats? I am
carefully choosing the partners....(responsible, working friends w/ spare
money)

For now, we are looking at 19-22 foot Bowrider. Basically to lounge
around on for a few hours at a time...Maybe try some water-skiing.

Also, we aren't that boat savvy, and all fairly busy with careers, so we
don't want a repair lemon... Is it better to pay more up front, and get a
nicer, newer boat, rather than find a perceived deal, and start pouring
money into some old boat (and end up spending just as much , if not more)

To avoid "hidden startup charges", what are the most common "freebie"
accessories I should look for? (That aren't really factored into the
price) Stuff that I'd have to buy regardless.... Trailer, Cover,
lifejackets, marine radios?

I was told by an avid boatman to avoid mass produced boats, such as
Bayliner, SeaRay, Maxum, etc...He said these boats are not well built, and
the mechanics he spoke to are always fixing these.... Instead , he said to
find a boat like: Grady White, Boston Whaler, Pursuit, HydraSport, ProSport,
Edgewater.... What do you think of this? Also, he said it is MUCH better
to get a fully outboard motor. Much easier to service. Do not get I/O or
inboard. They are much more troublesome....He also said try to get a Jap.
motor, like Yamaha, Honda, Nissan....

What are your thoughts on these suggestions ? THANKS

I am not a small boat guy so I will leave those questions to someone who
knows something.

I do however have a good bit of partnership experience.

First decide how the partnership ends. How many partners to end it and how
to do it...Get that in place before you buy anything.

Second decide how a partner leaves. Do he sell his share or simply walk
or...

Third decide how costs are divided up and paid. Note that this is related
to prior and next item. Have clear plans for repairs and maintenance.
Unless someone is well suited to the role pay an outsider to do them. More
expensive but it vastly limits partnership friction.

Fourth decide how the boat is scheduled. I recommend a regular schedule of
"ownership" with the owner allowing other partner usage as he sees fit.

Fifth - Write it all down. You will be sorry if you don't...and it may well
cost you a friend or a lot of money.

Jim
"BooBoo12321" wrote in message
. net...

I think Jim made some very good points. I wanted to add that I bought my
boat with my father in law thinking I will only take it out a few hours a
week, as it turns out I got addicted to wakeboarding and now take it out
2 -3 times a week. Luckily, he never wents to to take it out, but if he did
i would be screwed. be careful, boats are addictive
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:7FQ%a.1103$n94.336@fed1read04...
I am not a small boat guy so I will leave those questions to someone who
knows something.

I do however have a good bit of partnership experience.

First decide how the partnership ends. How many partners to end it and
how
to do it...Get that in place before you buy anything.

Second decide how a partner leaves. Do he sell his share or simply walk
or...

Third decide how costs are divided up and paid. Note that this is related
to prior and next item. Have clear plans for repairs and maintenance.
Unless someone is well suited to the role pay an outsider to do them.
More
expensive but it vastly limits partnership friction.

Fourth decide how the boat is scheduled. I recommend a regular schedule
of
"ownership" with the owner allowing other partner usage as he sees fit.

Fifth - Write it all down. You will be sorry if you don't...and it may
well
cost you a friend or a lot of money.

Jim
"BooBoo12321" wrote in message
. net...

Have a good lawyer and bail bondsman to help you out when you shoot one or
both of them.

Too many problems. Go it alone.

--


Keith
__
If you turn the wheel towards shore, the houses get bigger. If you turn the
wheel away from shore, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep turning
the wheel, then they get bigger again.
"BooBoo12321" wrote in message
. net...
I am thinking of buying a boat with 2 or 3 partners. At most, I'd use
the
boat twice a week next summer (and same with the other partners) So
there's plenty of time for 3 or 4 people to share the boat.... And, of
course, this will spread docking, insurance, repair and storage costs 4
ways..... Any comments on this approach? Any hidden caveats? I am
carefully choosing the partners....(responsible, working friends w/ spare
money)

For now, we are looking at 19-22 foot Bowrider. Basically to lounge
around on for a few hours at a time...Maybe try some water-skiing.

Also, we aren't that boat savvy, and all fairly busy with careers, so we
don't want a repair lemon... Is it better to pay more up front, and get a
nicer, newer boat, rather than find a perceived deal, and start pouring
money into some old boat (and end up spending just as much , if not more)

To avoid "hidden startup charges", what are the most common "freebie"
accessories I should look for? (That aren't really factored into the
price) Stuff that I'd have to buy regardless.... Trailer, Cover,
lifejackets, marine radios?

I was told by an avid boatman to avoid mass produced boats, such as
Bayliner, SeaRay, Maxum, etc...He said these boats are not well built, and
the mechanics he spoke to are always fixing these.... Instead , he said
to
find a boat like: Grady White, Boston Whaler, Pursuit, HydraSport,
ProSport,
Edgewater.... What do you think of this? Also, he said it is MUCH
better
to get a fully outboard motor. Much easier to service. Do not get I/O or
inboard. They are much more troublesome....He also said try to get a
Jap.
motor, like Yamaha, Honda, Nissan....

What are your thoughts on these suggestions ? THANKS

Don't do it. Someone will tear the prop up and not tell anyone and the next
time you go to take it out, you can't because the prop is messed up and
noone will take responsiblity for it.
Who gets it on the 4th of July weekend, Labor day weekend, etc. My guess is
everyone will want it for the holidays.
What happens when you go to get in the boat and there are potatoe chip
crumbs everywhere and ants crawling around.

Don't do it.

As for the brands, all the brands your friend recommended don't make (or
speciallize) in bowriders. They make great fishing boats. Don't get hung
up on brand. Find a boat you like that has been took care of and put your
money into a used boat for yourself. Use the boat and if you find you don't
use it enough to justify then sell it.


--
Tony
My boats and autos - http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com



"BooBoo12321" wrote in message
. net...
I am thinking of buying a boat with 2 or 3 partners. At most, I'd use
the
boat twice a week next summer (and same with the other partners) So
there's plenty of time for 3 or 4 people to share the boat.... And, of
course, this will spread docking, insurance, repair and storage costs 4
ways..... Any comments on this approach? Any hidden caveats? I am
carefully choosing the partners....(responsible, working friends w/ spare
money)

For now, we are looking at 19-22 foot Bowrider. Basically to lounge
around on for a few hours at a time...Maybe try some water-skiing.

Also, we aren't that boat savvy, and all fairly busy with careers, so we
don't want a repair lemon... Is it better to pay more up front, and get a
nicer, newer boat, rather than find a perceived deal, and start pouring
money into some old boat (and end up spending just as much , if not more)

To avoid "hidden startup charges", what are the most common "freebie"
accessories I should look for? (That aren't really factored into the
price) Stuff that I'd have to buy regardless.... Trailer, Cover,
lifejackets, marine radios?

I was told by an avid boatman to avoid mass produced boats, such as
Bayliner, SeaRay, Maxum, etc...He said these boats are not well built, and
the mechanics he spoke to are always fixing these.... Instead , he said
to
find a boat like: Grady White, Boston Whaler, Pursuit, HydraSport,
ProSport,
Edgewater.... What do you think of this? Also, he said it is MUCH
better
to get a fully outboard motor. Much easier to service. Do not get I/O or
inboard. They are much more troublesome....He also said try to get a
Jap.
motor, like Yamaha, Honda, Nissan....

What are your thoughts on these suggestions ? THANKS

Good points, Tony.

There is no way I am absorbing all the costs of ownership alone.
So, it's either get annoyed at the partners, or get no boat at all.
B/c the price of the boat is not the issue, its all the other costs that
worry me.




"Tony Thomas" wrote in message
news:zQ20b.179356$o%2.87150@sccrnsc02...
Don't do it. Someone will tear the prop up and not tell anyone and the
next
time you go to take it out, you can't because the prop is messed up and
noone will take responsiblity for it.
Who gets it on the 4th of July weekend, Labor day weekend, etc. My guess
is
everyone will want it for the holidays.
What happens when you go to get in the boat and there are potatoe chip
crumbs everywhere and ants crawling around.

Don't do it.

As for the brands, all the brands your friend recommended don't make (or
speciallize) in bowriders. They make great fishing boats. Don't get hung
up on brand. Find a boat you like that has been took care of and put your
money into a used boat for yourself. Use the boat and if you find you
don't
use it enough to justify then sell it.

The devil's dictionary entry for "advice" is: "Asking for someone's approval
of a course of action you've already decided upon."

Looks like that pretty much sums up your original post. Go ahead and report
back if you're all still friends in a year. Doubtful. Just remember, the
**** will hit the fan for whoever has the boat registered in their name.

--


Keith
__
You can sleep in a trawler; you can't cruise in a house.
"BooBoo12321" wrote in message
.net...
Good points, Tony.

There is no way I am absorbing all the costs of ownership alone.
So, it's either get annoyed at the partners, or get no boat at all.
B/c the price of the boat is not the issue, its all the other costs that
worry me.




"Tony Thomas" wrote in message
news:zQ20b.179356$o%2.87150@sccrnsc02...
Don't do it. Someone will tear the prop up and not tell anyone and the
next
time you go to take it out, you can't because the prop is messed up and
noone will take responsiblity for it.
Who gets it on the 4th of July weekend, Labor day weekend, etc. My
guess
is
everyone will want it for the holidays.
What happens when you go to get in the boat and there are potatoe chip
crumbs everywhere and ants crawling around.

Don't do it.

As for the brands, all the brands your friend recommended don't make (or
speciallize) in bowriders. They make great fishing boats. Don't get
hung
up on brand. Find a boat you like that has been took care of and put
your
money into a used boat for yourself. Use the boat and if you find you
don't
use it enough to justify then sell it.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:01:41 GMT, "BooBoo12321"
wrote:
There is no way I am absorbing all the costs of ownership alone.
So, it's either get annoyed at the partners, or get no boat at all.
B/c the price of the boat is not the issue, its all the other costs that
worry me.
==================================================

There's an old saying about boats, usually attributed to J.P. Morgan,
that goes something like: "If you have to ask, then you can't afford
it."

There's a lot of truth to that unfortunately. My advice is to buy
what you can afford and enjoy it for what it is. You'll keep your
friends as friends, have a boat to use when ever you want, and
maintain it (or not), as you see fit.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:22 GMT, "BooBoo12321"
wrote:

I am thinking of buying a boat with 2 or 3 partners. At most, I'd use the
boat twice a week next summer (and same with the other partners) So
there's plenty of time for 3 or 4 people to share the boat.... And, of
course, this will spread docking, insurance, repair and storage costs 4
ways..... Any comments on this approach? Any hidden caveats? I am
carefully choosing the partners....(responsible, working friends w/ spare
money)

For now, we are looking at 19-22 foot Bowrider. Basically to lounge
around on for a few hours at a time...Maybe try some water-skiing.

Also, we aren't that boat savvy, and all fairly busy with careers, so we
don't want a repair lemon... Is it better to pay more up front, and get a
nicer, newer boat, rather than find a perceived deal, and start pouring
money into some old boat (and end up spending just as much , if not more)

To avoid "hidden startup charges", what are the most common "freebie"
accessories I should look for? (That aren't really factored into the
price) Stuff that I'd have to buy regardless.... Trailer, Cover,
lifejackets, marine radios?

I was told by an avid boatman to avoid mass produced boats, such as
Bayliner, SeaRay, Maxum, etc...He said these boats are not well built, and
the mechanics he spoke to are always fixing these.... Instead , he said to
find a boat like: Grady White, Boston Whaler, Pursuit, HydraSport, ProSport,
Edgewater.... What do you think of this? Also, he said it is MUCH better
to get a fully outboard motor. Much easier to service. Do not get I/O or
inboard. They are much more troublesome....He also said try to get a Jap.
motor, like Yamaha, Honda, Nissan....

What are your thoughts on these suggestions ? THANKS


I have to agree with Tony. For this size boat, buy your own. You
will have the luxury of using it whenever you want, and you won't have
to alienate friends trying to find out who dinged the prop, or left
the gas tank empty.

Good friends are more important than a boat, and there *will* be
conflicts.

My brother-in-law and I bought a small boat, many years ago, and got
along fine with it. My ex-wife, however, had a major problem
everytime my brother-in-law took the boat. "Why does he get it so
many weekends?", etc. The killer was that she hated boating, and
wouldn't go with me when she had the chance. I dumped the wife and
kept the boat.

Get a boat trailer combo, do your homework, and enjoy your boat.
noah

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:22 +0000, BooBoo12321 wrote:

(Donno about the partnership thing - sounds like a Bad Idea to me)

For now, we are looking at 19-22 foot Bowrider. Basically to lounge
around on for a few hours at a time...Maybe try some water-skiing.

Also, we aren't that boat savvy, and all fairly busy with careers, so we
don't want a repair lemon... Is it better to pay more up front, and get a
nicer, newer boat, rather than find a perceived deal, and start pouring
money into some old boat (and end up spending just as much , if not more)


New boats are rarely more reliable than older boats. You can get Nice ones
or Lemons both ways (older boats usually have the "bugs" worked out of
them. New boats have warranties, but you still have to get them towed in
and get them to the dealer)

I was told by an avid boatman to avoid mass produced boats, such as
Bayliner, SeaRay, Maxum, etc...

These are the style of boats you should be looking at.

He said these boats are not well built, and
the mechanics he spoke to are always fixing these.... Instead , he said to
find a boat like: Grady White, Boston Whaler, Pursuit, HydraSport, ProSport,
Edgewater.... What do you think of this?

Nice boats, but not for putting around a lake or water-skiing.

As someone else said, it's the engine, not the hull, that needs to be
reliable, and chances are these boats use the same engines as the
Bayliner/Searay/Maxxim

Also, he said it is MUCH better
to get a fully outboard motor. Much easier to service. Do not get I/O or
inboard. They are much more troublesome....He also said try to get a Jap.
motor, like Yamaha, Honda, Nissan....


Disagree. The actual I/O part (the "outdrive") can be troublesome, but I
feel the engines of an I/O are at least as reliable as an outboard,
probably more so. I have the same engine as the Mercruiser V6 in my van,
and it has 230,000 km and going strong. And they're easier to work on on
the water! Best option is a true inboard, but hard to find in a boat that
small.
Also, at 19-22ft you're getting to the upper limit of outboards. You'll
want close to 200hp, and the 200hp outboards are new, expensive and heavy.
I/O engines pretty much start at 200hp and go up from there. Get at least
a V6 (200-230hp) or a small V8 (around 250hp or so).

Lloyd