There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately. Here's
an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a few
questions to get the ball rolling.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?
Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?
Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?
Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?
Jim

Jim wrote:
: There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately. Here's
: an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a few
: questions to get the ball rolling.

: Boating magazines:
: Why do we buy them?
: Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?
: Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
: Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
: Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?
: Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?
: Jim

I subscribe mainly to Trailer Boats Magazine.

I read it for technical articles, human interes artles and to
vicariously "boat" when I'm not boating. I also have a subscription
to Hal Schell's (RIP) Bay and Delta Yachtsman magazine. I don't
own a yacht but it has good, interesting articles on the California
Delta areas.

Buying decisions... probably not. I usually only find positive
comments in the reviews and they're a bit biased although still
interesting.

b.

Jim wrote:
There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately. Here's
an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a few
questions to get the ball rolling.

I would be surprised if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of boating
magazines but what they heck.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?

I have when I was in the market for a new boat or a new accessories.
I view them as a nice catalog or brochure,
with more information and description than the West Marine Catalog.
It helps me narrow done my choices.

Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?

I use them the same way I would use this NG as an opportunity to
narrow down my choices, but do not take the info as the gosple.

Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?

I expect the information to be factually correct, but understand all of
the info provided is desinged to highlight the products features and
benefits. Normally they are not, nor do they pretend to be a crtical
evaluation of the product as it compares to others in it's field. If
the boating magazine reviewed the product, and it was a piece of ****
that they could not say anything positive, they normally decline to
write the article. You will find very very few negative evalations in
any of the magazines.


Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages? see above


Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?

It is very common for pieces about a product catagory to be
written so the mag can sell ads space around the article. I don't think
the advertisers need to try to influence the mag, it is a very symbiotic
relationship between boating mags, mfg'ers and magazine buyers.

Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?

Why should the boating industry be any different than any other
industry? I would think there are competitant honest individuals in the
boating press, and there are sleeze balls. You probably have the same
in your industry. Most magazines try their best not to provide false
information, they just sell features of whatever product they are
"reviewing".

From what I have seen, Chuck is one of the honest ones who does his
best to sell the sizzle whenever he writes an article. The idea is to
promote the hobby, the products and the mfg'ers.

Why do you ask?


Jim




--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Jim wrote:
There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately. Here's
an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a few
questions to get the ball rolling.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?

It would be unusual for anybody to buy one. The vast majority are
available on a free circulation basis. Sometimes there's a charge for
magazines normally picked up at a stand to be mailed to your house, but
most of the "subscription only" titles are now free.
Despite a cover price of several dollars, I don't pay for Sea or Power
& Motoryacht, for example. Just being able to add another name to the
"paid circulation" (guffaw, guffaw) numbers is worth more than the
price of a subscription.

Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?

You shouldn't rely exclusively on any one source. You should gather
information from multiple sources and consider your subjective
preferences as well.

Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?

I've never really seen a boat "review" in a boating magazine. What you
see in most are product information pieces. IOW: Here are the prominent
features of this particular product.

Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?

Nearly always. Remember that if you're considering boats with a proper
design and hull configuration for your intended purpose and if the boat
is adequately stout for the conditions under which it is intended to be
used, most of the reasons that you, personally, would dislike a boat
are going to be subjective.

Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?

Yes and no. Most magazines are not going to devote a lot of ink to
publicizing products that are not advertised in the magazine (and
especially won't do a lavish spread on a non-advertiser's product that
competes with a major supporter). 1/2 of the articles in the magazine I
write and edit for have nothing to do with a specific product.

Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?

Unfortunately, not in my experience. :-)

Harry Krause wrote:
s of this particular product.


You're reading the wrong magazine. Try Passagemaker. It *reviews* boats
and brings up the good, the bad, and the ugly?

Does the magazine sell ad space to boat builders and boat products? I
would read any review of any boat or product with a very jaded eye. I
have read Passagemaker a number of years ago, and it was a great
magazine with some great articles, but I can't remember one product
review where they said a product was an inferior product to brand x. The
good the bad and the ugly I remember were minor little tweaks the author
would like to see improved, but overall they always think it is one hell
of a boat or product for a certain segment of the market.

At $38 per year or about $4.50 a copy, the publisher is not making his
money from the subscription sales.

Things might have changed since I read the mag, but it seems like a bad
business model for a publishing company.


--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...
There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately.
Here's an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a
few questions to get the ball rolling.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?

No.


Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?

No.


Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?


Depends on the publication, but generally no.


Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?


Depends on the publication, but generally no.


Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?

Again, it depends on the publication but generally yes.


Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?


Possible. Payola. Gifts. Reduced prices. Who knows for sure.


Jim

Harry Krause wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
s of this particular product.

You're reading the wrong magazine. Try Passagemaker. It *reviews*
boats and brings up the good, the bad, and the ugly?

Does the magazine sell ad space to boat builders and boat products? I
would read any review of any boat or product with a very jaded eye. I
have read Passagemaker a number of years ago, and it was a great
magazine with some great articles, but I can't remember one product
review where they said a product was an inferior product to brand x.
The good the bad and the ugly I remember were minor little tweaks the
author would like to see improved, but overall they always think it is
one hell of a boat or product for a certain segment of the market.

At $38 per year or about $4.50 a copy, the publisher is not making his
money from the subscription sales.

Things might have changed since I read the mag, but it seems like a
bad business model for a publishing company.




Since you have no admitted area of expertise, the only judgment I can
make on your pronouncements is that they are worthless.

I didn't realize this thread was about my area of expertise. I thought
it was about individuals opinions concerning boating magazine and their
"reviews" of new boats and products.

Jim was wondering about how much weight individuals place on the info
provided in boating magazines. I really thought my position would go
unchallenged, but you have a different opinion, so that is good.

Do you find all of the product reviews in Passagemaker to be completely
unbiased without any concern towards the advertising dollars paid by the
mfg'er?

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Harry Krause wrote:


You're reading the wrong magazine. Try Passagemaker. It *reviews* boats
and brings up the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Nonsense. I've been on press runs with some of the writers in the
Pacific NW who write some of the reviews for Passagemaker. Their
"review" of the Nordic Tug we were last on in this specific situation
was far more glowing than mine.

Care to reference any article appearing in Passagemaker that pronounced
a boat (that you personally think is a piece of crap) a piece of crap?

I think there's less editorial integrity at Passagemaker since the
Parlatore's sold out to Boat Trader, but that's simply my personal
impression and you would be entitled to disagree.

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
. ..

"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...
There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately.
Here's an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a
few questions to get the ball rolling.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?

I don't


Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?

No.


Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?


Depends on the publication, but generally no.


Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?


Depends on the publication, but generally no.


Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?

Again, it depends on the publication but generally yes.


Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?


Possible. Payola. Gifts. Reduced prices. Who knows for sure.


Jim




Oops......edit.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
..

Do you find all of the product reviews in Passagemaker to be completely
unbiased without any concern towards the advertising dollars paid by the
mfg'er?

--
Reggie


Several years ago now, in Passagemaker, there was a major advertiser
selling toilet paper oil filters. Perhaps it was just a coincidence,
but month after month there seemed to be feature articles about the
"miracles" of TP oil filtration. The TP filter guy stopped advertising,
and while it has been several months since I last thumbed through a
Passagemaker magazine I think it's been a lot longer since I've noticed
any TP filter articles there. Are TP oil filters "bad"? Probably
depends on who you ask.

Point: If you don't notice any correlation between advertising content
and feature articles in any "enthusiast" magazine (boating, autos,
model building, hunting, fishing, photography, computers, etc) it's
more likely a lack of careful examination than any saintly editorial
"purity" in play. I can tell you for a fact that at least years ago,
when I was in the auto business, being named "Car of the Year" was
available to any Motor Trend advertiser willing to pay the big enough
bucks. Anybody else remember the Krysler K Kar, "Car of the Year"
award? :-)