jamesgangnc wrote:
Are you sure that no one has removed the drains on the manifolds or the
sides of the block? Both locations have removable plugs designed to
allow the engine to be drained for winter. When I winterize my boat I
take them out and leave them out until spring.

It is not old enough for corrosion to have taken out the casting aka
"freeze" plugs unless someone mistakely used steel ones when it was
built. One of the differences in marine engines is the use of brass
casting plugs isntead of steel ones.

Changing the impeller in the outdrive would not have any effect on the
water coming out the sides of your engine so this is a different
problem. When the original impeller went south how long did the engine
run overheated? Perhaps the overheating could have had some other
effect leading to this problem. Such as melted water or exhaust hoses
on the manifolds. The manifolds will get very hot if the boat is run
for any length of time without cooling water. The rubber parts in and
connected to the exhaust system will not take it for long before they
melt.

The motor only ran long enough for me to park my truck/trailer and
for the wife to pull to the dock to pick me up. I would roughly guess
around 3 - 5 minutes. Following the replies last night, I went back
into the engine compartment and found one of the expansion plugs laying
next to the bilage pump. The other plug is still in but must be cocked
for it is leaking. This one will be a problem for it is directly
behind a motor mount.

I am going to purchase a couple of plugs and install them to see if
there are any other pending (hidden) issues. I had been told that I
could get expansion plugs from a local parts dealer that are expandable
by way of a bolt instead of the "tap in" types that would be supplied
by Volvo (or aftermarket). Has anyone used these types of plugs? Can
anyone recommend how to replace the plug that is behind the motor
mount? It would be much easier to take it to a local repair shop but I
want to do the work myself.... how else am I to learn the
fundamentals?

Yes, there are rubber plugs that you put in and tighten with a nut in the
center. These are simpler to use with the engine in place because the metal
ones have to be driven in and it is hard to get a straight go at the block
while it is in the boat. That is a good recomendation. If you can get
behind the mount that would be the best as I'm sure you've figured out :-)

If not you will need to support the engine on that side while you remove the
motor mount. Sounds like you are prety handy since you've spotted the
casting plug problem. If you place some wood in the bottom of the boat you
should be able to get a hydralic bottle jack to hold up the side of the
engine at the edge of the oil pan where it is bolted to the bottom of the
block. You will have to play around with wood scraps to get a flat platform
to rest the bottle jack on. You want to distibute the load on the bottom of
the boat as much as is practical with the wood. Probably 2-300 lbs of load
involved so it is not a lot worse than a big guy standing on one foot. You
may also need to place a small scrap of wood on top of the bottle jack to
keep from crushng the edge of the oil pan. Typically there is not enough
room directly under the oil pan for a jack, that's why you have to go at the
edge of the block. Break the bolts that hold the mount on the block free
but do not loosen. Remove the top big nut on the boat end of the mount.
Then jack just until the engine mount starts to lift a little. Then you
should be able to remove the mount from the block. As you can imagine try
to make sure the bottle jack is solidly in place and take care not to jar
anything any more than you have to while the side of the engine is on the
jack. Of course do not reach under the engine either. Have everything
ready to go so that you can complete the repair and do not have to leave the
engine on the jack any longer than needed. Be careful because we don't want
any injured rec.boat posters :-)

"landshrk4" wrote in message
ps.com...

jamesgangnc wrote:
Are you sure that no one has removed the drains on the manifolds or the
sides of the block? Both locations have removable plugs designed to
allow the engine to be drained for winter. When I winterize my boat I
take them out and leave them out until spring.

It is not old enough for corrosion to have taken out the casting aka
"freeze" plugs unless someone mistakely used steel ones when it was
built. One of the differences in marine engines is the use of brass
casting plugs isntead of steel ones.

Changing the impeller in the outdrive would not have any effect on the
water coming out the sides of your engine so this is a different
problem. When the original impeller went south how long did the engine
run overheated? Perhaps the overheating could have had some other
effect leading to this problem. Such as melted water or exhaust hoses
on the manifolds. The manifolds will get very hot if the boat is run
for any length of time without cooling water. The rubber parts in and
connected to the exhaust system will not take it for long before they
melt.

The motor only ran long enough for me to park my truck/trailer and
for the wife to pull to the dock to pick me up. I would roughly guess
around 3 - 5 minutes. Following the replies last night, I went back
into the engine compartment and found one of the expansion plugs laying
next to the bilage pump. The other plug is still in but must be cocked
for it is leaking. This one will be a problem for it is directly
behind a motor mount.

I am going to purchase a couple of plugs and install them to see if
there are any other pending (hidden) issues. I had been told that I
could get expansion plugs from a local parts dealer that are expandable
by way of a bolt instead of the "tap in" types that would be supplied
by Volvo (or aftermarket). Has anyone used these types of plugs? Can
anyone recommend how to replace the plug that is behind the motor
mount? It would be much easier to take it to a local repair shop but I
want to do the work myself.... how else am I to learn the
fundamentals?

landshrk4 wrote:



I am going to purchase a couple of plugs and install them to see if
there are any other pending (hidden) issues. I had been told that I
could get expansion plugs from a local parts dealer that are expandable
by way of a bolt instead of the "tap in" types that would be supplied
by Volvo (or aftermarket). Has anyone used these types of plugs? Can
anyone recommend how to replace the plug that is behind the motor
mount? It would be much easier to take it to a local repair shop but I
want to do the work myself.... how else am I to learn the
fundamentals?


The rubber expansion plugs will work, to a point. In a marine
environment, I would only use them to diagnose any further issues on a
test basis, which I have done, because they have a probability of
popping out, which will very quickly fill the bilge to a dangerous level
with very little advance notice. No typical bilge pump would be able to
keep up.

If you can somehow extract the obstructed view/access one, you can
probably slip a temporary plug in blind, tighten & test, otherwise you
are looking at pulling the engine twice if you go rubber, once if you go
with the brass to start & luck out with no other issues at re-start.

Which brings us back to the initial failure - did you get ALL rubber
fragments/parts out of the engine & drive when changing the impeller?
If you can account for all parts, do the brass plugs and hope that the
block is not cracked.

Did you have any kind of low temperature alert or alarm in your storage
area?

Rob

I'd only agree to a point. This is a trailer boat. I'm betting he's not
taking it 20 miles offshore. If the plug comes out the water will stop
coming in when he stops the engine. One could run a while and then stop to
let the bilge pump catch up. Besides we're talking about 3 or 4 lbs of
pressure. I've seen these rubber plugs go for years in cars with 15lb
pressures. I agree that it's certainly a good idea to get them in to make
sure there are no other problems but similarly I would not pull the engine
just to replace a couple casting plugs. He's not going to be in a position
to pull the engine himself and a yard will charge him a grand or so to do
it.

I do share your concern that these plugs did not come put because of the
overheating. It really sounds like this block may have frozen and the newer
thin walled blocks seldom survive that.

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
landshrk4 wrote:



I am going to purchase a couple of plugs and install them to see if
there are any other pending (hidden) issues. I had been told that I
could get expansion plugs from a local parts dealer that are expandable
by way of a bolt instead of the "tap in" types that would be supplied
by Volvo (or aftermarket). Has anyone used these types of plugs? Can
anyone recommend how to replace the plug that is behind the motor
mount? It would be much easier to take it to a local repair shop but I
want to do the work myself.... how else am I to learn the
fundamentals?


The rubber expansion plugs will work, to a point. In a marine
environment, I would only use them to diagnose any further issues on a
test basis, which I have done, because they have a probability of popping
out, which will very quickly fill the bilge to a dangerous level with very
little advance notice. No typical bilge pump would be able to keep up.

If you can somehow extract the obstructed view/access one, you can
probably slip a temporary plug in blind, tighten & test, otherwise you are
looking at pulling the engine twice if you go rubber, once if you go with
the brass to start & luck out with no other issues at re-start.

Which brings us back to the initial failure - did you get ALL rubber
fragments/parts out of the engine & drive when changing the impeller? If
you can account for all parts, do the brass plugs and hope that the block
is not cracked.

Did you have any kind of low temperature alert or alarm in your storage
area?

Rob

James wrote:
I'd only agree to a point. This is a trailer boat. I'm betting he's not
taking it 20 miles offshore. If the plug comes out the water will stop
coming in when he stops the engine. One could run a while and then stop to
let the bilge pump catch up. Besides we're talking about 3 or 4 lbs of
pressure.

The pressure is of little concern here - it's volume if it does pop out,
& the lack of notice. The boat may well go on running happily for some
time until the water comes up over the floor.


I've seen these rubber plugs go for years in cars with 15lb
pressures. I agree that it's certainly a good idea to get them in to make
sure there are no other problems but similarly I would not pull the engine
just to replace a couple casting plugs. He's not going to be in a position
to pull the engine himself and a yard will charge him a grand or so to do
it.

Your jacking/support suggestion was good, if it only needs to be done
once, and a complete visual can be done at the same time. Will save on
alignment issues especially.

Rob

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
James wrote:
I'd only agree to a point. This is a trailer boat. I'm betting he's not
taking it 20 miles offshore. If the plug comes out the water will stop
coming in when he stops the engine. One could run a while and then stop
to let the bilge pump catch up. Besides we're talking about 3 or 4 lbs
of pressure.

The pressure is of little concern here - it's volume if it does pop out, &
the lack of notice. The boat may well go on running happily for some time
until the water comes up over the floor.


I've seen these rubber plugs go for years in cars with 15lb pressures. I
agree that it's certainly a good idea to get them in to make sure there
are no other problems but similarly I would not pull the engine just to
replace a couple casting plugs. He's not going to be in a position to
pull the engine himself and a yard will charge him a grand or so to do
it.

Your jacking/support suggestion was good, if it only needs to be done
once, and a complete visual can be done at the same time. Will save on
alignment issues especially.

Rob




Just as a side ... as someone else mentioned there may be some NPT pipe
thread plugs on each side of the engine below the manifolds. I had an older
Mercruiser clone (350 chevy) engine that one of these plugs corroded
internally to the point where it starting ****ing water out of the side of
the engine. It was late in the season, so an application of MarineTex
worked until we pulled the boat in the fall and replaced the plug, as it was
impossible to get to without removing the manifold.

Marine Tex should be second to a roll of Duct Tape as emergency supplies on
an older boat.

RCE

Why these plugs are out is still suspect so you are right, it could involve
any of them. The boat owner seems pretty certain that the engine did not
freeze so it's still a mystery to me. I've never seen these come out as the
result of anything other that freezing or corrosion. The ones at the sides
are very low in the cooling jackets. I suppose defective installation is a
possiblity.

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

James wrote:
I agree that it's certainly a good idea to get them in to make
sure there are no other problems but similarly I would not pull the
engine
just to replace a couple casting plugs. He's not going to be in a
position
to pull the engine himself and a yard will charge him a grand or so to do
it.

Please remember though, that there are two plugs on the back of the
engine between the block and the flywheel.

Obviously that if a couple plugs are damaged, there may be more, and
water could eventually seep from the back of the engine, so the engine
would have to be removed.

Also a head gasket could be leaking. I've seent hem not leak coolant
into a cylinder, but be lieaking to the outside.

Highly improbable, but not impossible.

On 8 Jun 2006 12:52:51 -0700, "landshrk4"
wrote:


jamesgangnc wrote:
Are you sure that no one has removed the drains on the manifolds or the
sides of the block? Both locations have removable plugs designed to
allow the engine to be drained for winter. When I winterize my boat I
take them out and leave them out until spring.

It is not old enough for corrosion to have taken out the casting aka
"freeze" plugs unless someone mistakely used steel ones when it was
built. One of the differences in marine engines is the use of brass
casting plugs isntead of steel ones.

Changing the impeller in the outdrive would not have any effect on the
water coming out the sides of your engine so this is a different
problem. When the original impeller went south how long did the engine
run overheated? Perhaps the overheating could have had some other
effect leading to this problem. Such as melted water or exhaust hoses
on the manifolds. The manifolds will get very hot if the boat is run
for any length of time without cooling water. The rubber parts in and
connected to the exhaust system will not take it for long before they
melt.

The motor only ran long enough for me to park my truck/trailer and
for the wife to pull to the dock to pick me up. I would roughly guess
around 3 - 5 minutes. Following the replies last night, I went back
into the engine compartment and found one of the expansion plugs laying
next to the bilage pump. The other plug is still in but must be cocked
for it is leaking. This one will be a problem for it is directly
behind a motor mount.

I am going to purchase a couple of plugs and install them to see if
there are any other pending (hidden) issues. I had been told that I
could get expansion plugs from a local parts dealer that are expandable
by way of a bolt instead of the "tap in" types that would be supplied
by Volvo (or aftermarket). Has anyone used these types of plugs? Can
anyone recommend how to replace the plug that is behind the motor
mount? It would be much easier to take it to a local repair shop but I
want to do the work myself.... how else am I to learn the
fundamentals?

Glad we found the problem. Fixing it is beyond my ken, but there are a
bunch of smart folks here who can help.

Good luck!
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

I want to thank everyone for their responses and recommnedations. I
will attenpt to replace the plugs with the bolt type to determine if
there are additional issues. (first attempt willbe without removing
the motor mounts). If successful I will boat on! If not, I'll be
taking it in to a reputabile repair center and hopefully be back on the
water soon.

Again, I can't thank all of you enough!

Jeff

On 9 Jun 2006 12:31:32 -0700, "landshrk4"
wrote:


I want to thank everyone for their responses and recommnedations. I
will attenpt to replace the plugs with the bolt type to determine if
there are additional issues. (first attempt willbe without removing
the motor mounts). If successful I will boat on! If not, I'll be
taking it in to a reputabile repair center and hopefully be back on the
water soon.

Again, I can't thank all of you enough!

Jeff

You're most welcome, and good luck!