" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Black Dog" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:

Yes, common sense. If hybrids and being politically correct floats
your boat, do so without preaching.
If an Escalade floats your boat, do so, responsibly. The same
applies for everything in between.

RCE

Yes exactly. Funny you should use the phrase "float your boat". My
boat wouldn't get very far from driveway without the help of our
Ford Explorer. The KIA Rio that I run to work and back everyday sure
don't cut it in the trailering department. I realize that some
people cannot afford two vehicles. If we had to give up one,
despite gas prices, despite the "environment", it would probably be
the Rio. The SUV is just too useful.

Fine, but you're not typical of the vast majority of truck owners.
You actually have a need for a towing vehicle.


It does not necessarily be needed for towing only....perhaps to get
onto and out of construction sites, perhaps to transport a good deal
of material or a high number of passengers. There are all sorts of
reasons one may need an SUV or pickup truck, just like you need
one....eh?

Regardless, can you show some proof to your statement that most folks
who own large vehicles do not need them?


Yes, I can show proof.


Then please do so.


You're not capable of understanding it. I don't waste my time that way.


More insults Doug. Why can't you just discuss this like an adult?

You said you could provide proof of your statement.....so please do.


Look around you, Jimmy. There is absolutely, positively no way in hell that
the enormous increase in truck ownership over the past 30 years is due to
actual need.

-Most don't even have a hitch on them. They tow nothing.

-There've been surveys indicating that the average SUV owner carries 1-2
passengers most of the time, and never more than 4.

-We have not seen a 10-fold increase in the number of construction workers
and trades people. Furthermore, I have housing developments in progress near
me. I see more of the workers arriving in cars, not trucks. You don't need a
truck to haul 2 hammers, a tool belt, and a cordless drill. They're smart
enough to figure this out, and apparently, they see no need to drive a
pickup because someone else does. So much for "construction sites", as you
mentioned. Too bad soccer moms can't figure this out.

You keep coming back to people who actually need them. Do you know what the
typical female truck buyer gives as a reason?

"RG" wrote in message
. ..

Meanwhile, they're part of a problem that this country MUST deal with.
That's why I see nothing wrong with gently leading them by the nose.
Hell....there are still billboards addressing smoking, DWI and domestic
violence. They may not be the greatest thing since bait vending machines,
as far as getting a message across, but I think they achieve more than
nothing.

You appear to be looking for 100% compliance. Essentially every man,
woman and child marching in lockstep toward your vision. Can you recall
any other social movement that achieved that level of acceptance? Perhaps
you need to ratchet down your expectations a notch. A trend is probably
the best that can be hoped for. Humanity is a diverse lot. It's our
burden and our blessing.



Recycling's got extremely high compliance, if you believe the numerous
surveys that's been done over the years. That trend took 20-30 years to
reach current levels.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Black Dog" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:

Yes, common sense. If hybrids and being politically correct
floats your boat, do so without preaching.
If an Escalade floats your boat, do so, responsibly. The same
applies for everything in between.

RCE

Yes exactly. Funny you should use the phrase "float your boat".
My boat wouldn't get very far from driveway without the help of our
Ford Explorer. The KIA Rio that I run to work and back everyday
sure don't cut it in the trailering department. I realize that
some people cannot afford two vehicles. If we had to give up one,
despite gas prices, despite the "environment", it would probably be
the Rio. The SUV is just too useful.

Fine, but you're not typical of the vast majority of truck owners.
You actually have a need for a towing vehicle.


It does not necessarily be needed for towing only....perhaps to get
onto and out of construction sites, perhaps to transport a good deal
of material or a high number of passengers. There are all sorts of
reasons one may need an SUV or pickup truck, just like you need
one....eh?

Regardless, can you show some proof to your statement that most folks
who own large vehicles do not need them?


Yes, I can show proof.


Then please do so.


You're not capable of understanding it. I don't waste my time that way.


More insults Doug. Why can't you just discuss this like an adult?

You said you could provide proof of your statement.....so please do.


Look around you, Jimmy. There is absolutely, positively no way in hell
that the enormous increase in truck ownership over the past 30 years is
due to actual need.

-Most don't even have a hitch on them. They tow nothing.

Proof?



-There've been surveys indicating that the average SUV owner carries 1-2
passengers most of the time, and never more than 4.

So? What is your point? How many do you carry in your pickup truck most
of the time? (I think you said you were divorced, so I would guess the
answer to be..........one.)



-We have not seen a 10-fold increase in the number of construction workers
and trades people. Furthermore, I have housing developments in progress
near me. I see more of the workers arriving in cars, not trucks. You don't
need a truck to haul 2 hammers, a tool belt, and a cordless drill. They're
smart enough to figure this out, and apparently, they see no need to drive
a pickup because someone else does. So much for "construction sites", as
you mentioned. Too bad soccer moms can't figure this out.


Ahh, so it is the *soccer mom's* that you have a problem with.

I thought most drive mini vans so as to lug around a bunch of kids, most of
which probably get better gas mileage than your pickup truck. Is that not a
good enough reason for you? Don't they have a right to buy whatever they
want to?



You keep coming back to people who actually need them. Do you know what
the typical female truck buyer gives as a reason?


No, nor do I know what the typical male truck buyer gives as a reason. Are
you saying that only men who buy trucks have a reason for doing so?

The bottom line is that it remains all about choice....and choice is good.

For you it also remains 'do as I say but not as I do' your rules apply to
everyone but you.

Recycling's got extremely high compliance, if you believe the numerous
surveys that's been done over the years. That trend took 20-30 years to
reach current levels.

Precisely. 20-30 years just to get people to put one kind of garbage in one
receptacle and another type of garbage in a different one. I'm thinking
Americans never really had a love affair with their garbage or how they
disposed of it. But they damn sure have one with their cars. Can you
imagine how much more difficult it will be to effect change on car buying
habits than it was with how they handle their trash?

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
news
Look around you, Jimmy. There is absolutely, positively no way in hell
that the enormous increase in truck ownership over the past 30 years is
due to actual need.

-Most don't even have a hitch on them. They tow nothing.

Proof?

My mistake: Not just "no hitch". Not even a towing bar with an opening into
which to put the hitch. They tow nothing. Open your eyes. You'll see it too.


-There've been surveys indicating that the average SUV owner carries 1-2
passengers most of the time, and never more than 4.

So? What is your point? How many do you carry in your pickup truck
most of the time? (I think you said you were divorced, so I would guess
the answer to be..........one.)

I never said I bought it to carry 12 kids to baseball practice. I bought it
because I wanted REAR wheel drive, and the ability to carry 4 tall
passengers. In 2002, the choices were limited as follows:

1) Crown Victoria. Better gas mileage, but I didn't want the exploding gas
tank feature, which was standard until two years later. All other sedans
capable of towing were front wheel drive.

2) Double cabs from all other manufacturers only came with a V-8. I didn't
want or need a V-8.

What would you have bought?



-We have not seen a 10-fold increase in the number of construction
workers and trades people. Furthermore, I have housing developments in
progress near me. I see more of the workers arriving in cars, not trucks.
You don't need a truck to haul 2 hammers, a tool belt, and a cordless
drill. They're smart enough to figure this out, and apparently, they see
no need to drive a pickup because someone else does. So much for
"construction sites", as you mentioned. Too bad soccer moms can't figure
this out.

Ahh, so it is the *soccer mom's* that you have a problem with.

Well, if you had any sense of....anything....oh never mind.



I thought most drive mini vans so as to lug around a bunch of kids, most
of which probably get better gas mileage than your pickup truck. Is that
not a good enough reason for you? Don't they have a right to buy whatever
they want to?

A mini van would've been a good idea, except that the only ones worth
considering, in terms of quality, were front wheel drive.



You keep coming back to people who actually need them. Do you know what
the typical female truck buyer gives as a reason?

No, nor do I know what the typical male truck buyer gives as a reason.
Are you saying that only men who buy trucks have a reason for doing so?

Drunk again? Do you notice that some ads are directed very obviously at one
gender or another? Some are so obvious that they're like a boxing glove
popping out of the TV and knocking you out of your chair.

"RG" wrote in message
...



Recycling's got extremely high compliance, if you believe the numerous
surveys that's been done over the years. That trend took 20-30 years to
reach current levels.

Precisely. 20-30 years just to get people to put one kind of garbage in
one receptacle and another type of garbage in a different one. I'm
thinking Americans never really had a love affair with their garbage or
how they disposed of it. But they damn sure have one with their cars.
Can you imagine how much more difficult it will be to effect change on car
buying habits than it was with how they handle their trash?


Some people had a love affair with working in the textile biz. That's
history. When's the last time you were able to find a dress shirt made in
this country? I don't mean a custom made shirt - I mean a pile of shirts, in
packages, in a store. Change is a bitch. Oh well.

Some people had a love affair with working in the textile biz. That's
history. When's the last time you were able to find a dress shirt made in
this country? I don't mean a custom made shirt - I mean a pile of shirts,
in packages, in a store. Change is a bitch. Oh well.


You keep coming up with these absolutely perfect examples, Doug. Change is
a bitch, no doubt. The high cost of domestic labor is what caused the
domestic textile industry to crumble and be sent overseas. It's why you
can't by a domestically made mass-produced dress shirt. Market forces. The
high cost of fuel is what will change the buying choices of American car
buyers. Market forces again.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
news
Look around you, Jimmy. There is absolutely, positively no way in hell
that the enormous increase in truck ownership over the past 30 years is
due to actual need.

-Most don't even have a hitch on them. They tow nothing.

Proof?

My mistake: Not just "no hitch". Not even a towing bar with an opening
into which to put the hitch. They tow nothing. Open your eyes. You'll see
it too.


-There've been surveys indicating that the average SUV owner carries 1-2
passengers most of the time, and never more than 4.

So? What is your point? How many do you carry in your pickup truck
most of the time? (I think you said you were divorced, so I would guess
the answer to be..........one.)

I never said I bought it to carry 12 kids to baseball practice. I bought
it because I wanted REAR wheel drive, and the ability to carry 4 tall
passengers. In 2002, the choices were limited as follows:

1) Crown Victoria. Better gas mileage, but I didn't want the exploding gas
tank feature, which was standard until two years later. All other sedans
capable of towing were front wheel drive.

2) Double cabs from all other manufacturers only came with a V-8. I didn't
want or need a V-8.

What would you have bought?



-We have not seen a 10-fold increase in the number of construction
workers and trades people. Furthermore, I have housing developments in
progress near me. I see more of the workers arriving in cars, not
trucks. You don't need a truck to haul 2 hammers, a tool belt, and a
cordless drill. They're smart enough to figure this out, and apparently,
they see no need to drive a pickup because someone else does. So much
for "construction sites", as you mentioned. Too bad soccer moms can't
figure this out.

Ahh, so it is the *soccer mom's* that you have a problem with.

Well, if you had any sense of....anything....oh never mind.



I thought most drive mini vans so as to lug around a bunch of kids, most
of which probably get better gas mileage than your pickup truck. Is that
not a good enough reason for you? Don't they have a right to buy
whatever they want to?

A mini van would've been a good idea, except that the only ones worth
considering, in terms of quality, were front wheel drive.



You keep coming back to people who actually need them. Do you know what
the typical female truck buyer gives as a reason?

No, nor do I know what the typical male truck buyer gives as a reason.
Are you saying that only men who buy trucks have a reason for doing so?

Drunk again? Do you notice that some ads are directed very obviously at
one gender or another? Some are so obvious that they're like a boxing
glove popping out of the TV and knocking you out of your chair.


Let me know when you grow up Doug.......maybe then we can we can continue
this discussion.

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
news
Look around you, Jimmy. There is absolutely, positively no way in hell
that the enormous increase in truck ownership over the past 30 years is
due to actual need.

-Most don't even have a hitch on them. They tow nothing.

Proof?

My mistake: Not just "no hitch". Not even a towing bar with an opening
into which to put the hitch. They tow nothing. Open your eyes. You'll see
it too.


-There've been surveys indicating that the average SUV owner carries
1-2 passengers most of the time, and never more than 4.

So? What is your point? How many do you carry in your pickup truck
most of the time? (I think you said you were divorced, so I would guess
the answer to be..........one.)

I never said I bought it to carry 12 kids to baseball practice. I bought
it because I wanted REAR wheel drive, and the ability to carry 4 tall
passengers. In 2002, the choices were limited as follows:

1) Crown Victoria. Better gas mileage, but I didn't want the exploding
gas tank feature, which was standard until two years later. All other
sedans capable of towing were front wheel drive.

2) Double cabs from all other manufacturers only came with a V-8. I
didn't want or need a V-8.

What would you have bought?



-We have not seen a 10-fold increase in the number of construction
workers and trades people. Furthermore, I have housing developments in
progress near me. I see more of the workers arriving in cars, not
trucks. You don't need a truck to haul 2 hammers, a tool belt, and a
cordless drill. They're smart enough to figure this out, and
apparently, they see no need to drive a pickup because someone else
does. So much for "construction sites", as you mentioned. Too bad
soccer moms can't figure this out.

Ahh, so it is the *soccer mom's* that you have a problem with.

Well, if you had any sense of....anything....oh never mind.



I thought most drive mini vans so as to lug around a bunch of kids, most
of which probably get better gas mileage than your pickup truck. Is
that not a good enough reason for you? Don't they have a right to buy
whatever they want to?

A mini van would've been a good idea, except that the only ones worth
considering, in terms of quality, were front wheel drive.



You keep coming back to people who actually need them. Do you know what
the typical female truck buyer gives as a reason?

No, nor do I know what the typical male truck buyer gives as a reason.
Are you saying that only men who buy trucks have a reason for doing so?

Drunk again? Do you notice that some ads are directed very obviously at
one gender or another? Some are so obvious that they're like a boxing
glove popping out of the TV and knocking you out of your chair.


Let me know when you grow up Doug.......maybe then we can we can continue
this discussion.


OK. You've never noticed that women buy cars for different reasons than men.
Got it. Just wanted to be sure we agreed on that.

JimH wrote:

The bottom line is that it remains all about choice....and choice is good.

For you it also remains 'do as I say but not as I do' your rules apply to
everyone but you.

But isn't that how the left-wingers always want it?
Choice is fine, as long as it's their choice.

But some how they manage to convince those near or below povertly level
that the leftist have their best interest at heart. Sure they do.
That's why lefties develop programs to keep those 'constiuents' at or
below the poverty level and dependent upon them. Today's
Democrat/Socialist/Liberal party is noting more than a group of
'elitist political-plantation masters' who've pulled quite a con-job on
their 'slaves'.

Till