OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:19:42 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote:

Chuck,
The discussion of theory is part of the scientific process, but do you
believe that any theory has ever been discussed in rec.boats where a general
consensus has been reached? Especially one that involved a terrorist
conspiracy and/or government cover-up. If so, that is a major milestone.

Wasn't your post really designed to provide a venue for shooting the bull,
while we waited for the newspapers and TV's to tell us what was the cause of
the power outage. That is the real purpose for rec.boats, sort of like a
bunch of neighbor getting together to discuss things they have no knowledge
of, and solve the world's problems.

If we ever decide wither or not Bayliner is the best boat in the world or
the worst piece of ****, ever to be thrust on the public, maybe we can move
onto solving the middle east crisis.

Bill, if this is a continuation of our conversation in other threads,
let me say that I agree with you. rec.boats, as a place to "shoot the
breeze", is accepted by most of the regular posters. If a new FAQ
were drawn up today, to be voted on by the paticipants, I have no
doubt that off-topic conversation would be permitted, or we would lose
many of our favorite people.

My main objection to the off-topic (and some On-topic) discussions is
that some posters start slinging abusive personal insults at the drop
of a hat. Profanity proves nothing, except that the speaker has run
out of facts, wit, or intellect.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on this. I enjoy a good argument from
time to time, especially a clever one.

Regards,
noah


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Agreed, and it was therefore ridiculous for Chuck to throw out a theory
without knowing
the facts.

No "theory" was thrown out.
Go back and look at the first post in the thread. There's a comment that
two
guys had been arrested in Seattle, bound for NY, the day before the
blackout.
Followed by a comment that it was probably a coincidence.

By the way, the discussion of theory is one avenue by which to determine
and
evaluate facts. Scientists do it all the time.
To state that it is silly to advance a theory without knowing all the
facts is
to state that it is always silly to advance a theory.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On 18 Aug 2003 15:28:26 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Go back and look at the first post in the thread. There's a comment that two
guys had been arrested in Seattle, bound for NY, the day before the blackout.

==============================================

And herein lies the proof that these guys weren't smart enough to be
good terrorists. No one in their right mind would head for NYC the
day before a power outage. :-)

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:19:42 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote:

maybe we can move
onto solving the middle east crisis.

============================

I'm sure the world eagerly awaits our analysis.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

I have no problem with rec.boats being used to shot the ****, but don't try
to fool ourselves that we are having trying to find resolution or prove or
disprove a theory, it is nothing more that idle chitchat. Just take a look
at any of basskisser's post to see us at our best.

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:19:42 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote:

Chuck,
The discussion of theory is part of the scientific process, but do you
believe that any theory has ever been discussed in rec.boats where a
general
consensus has been reached? Especially one that involved a terrorist
conspiracy and/or government cover-up. If so, that is a major milestone.

Wasn't your post really designed to provide a venue for shooting the
bull,
while we waited for the newspapers and TV's to tell us what was the cause
of
the power outage. That is the real purpose for rec.boats, sort of like a
bunch of neighbor getting together to discuss things they have no
knowledge
of, and solve the world's problems.

If we ever decide wither or not Bayliner is the best boat in the world or
the worst piece of ****, ever to be thrust on the public, maybe we can
move
onto solving the middle east crisis.

Bill, if this is a continuation of our conversation in other threads,
let me say that I agree with you. rec.boats, as a place to "shoot the
breeze", is accepted by most of the regular posters. If a new FAQ
were drawn up today, to be voted on by the paticipants, I have no
doubt that off-topic conversation would be permitted, or we would lose
many of our favorite people.

My main objection to the off-topic (and some On-topic) discussions is
that some posters start slinging abusive personal insults at the drop
of a hat. Profanity proves nothing, except that the speaker has run
out of facts, wit, or intellect.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on this. I enjoy a good argument from
time to time, especially a clever one.

Regards,
noah


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Agreed, and it was therefore ridiculous for Chuck to throw out a
theory
without knowing
the facts.

No "theory" was thrown out.
Go back and look at the first post in the thread. There's a comment
that
two
guys had been arrested in Seattle, bound for NY, the day before the
blackout.
Followed by a comment that it was probably a coincidence.

By the way, the discussion of theory is one avenue by which to
determine
and
evaluate facts. Scientists do it all the time.
To state that it is silly to advance a theory without knowing all the
facts is
to state that it is always silly to advance a theory.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Bill Cole" wrote in message news:rWg0b.193487$uu5.35713@sccrnsc04...
I have no problem with rec.boats being used to shot the ****, but don't try
to fool ourselves that we are having trying to find resolution or prove or
disprove a theory, it is nothing more that idle chitchat. Just take a look
at any of basskisser's post to see us at our best.

Those would be replies to your idiotic diatribes.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Hate to disagree, but it's silly
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Agreed, and it was therefore ridiculous for Chuck to throw out a theory
without knowing
the facts.

No "theory" was thrown out.
Go back and look at the first post in the thread. There's a comment that
two
guys had been arrested in Seattle, bound for NY, the day before the
blackout.
Followed by a comment that it was probably a coincidence.

By the way, the discussion of theory is one avenue by which to determine
and
evaluate facts. Scientists do it all the time.
To state that it is silly to advance a theory without knowing all the
facts is
to state that it is always silly to advance a theory.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Hate to disagree, but it's silly

Advancing a theory, once all the facts are
*known*, wouldn't be silly. It would be absurd.

A theory is a model for testing evidence.
Once the evidence is conclusively tested, the theory becomes a fact or is
discarded.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Hate to disagree, but it's silly

Advancing a theory, once all the facts are
*known*, wouldn't be silly. It would be absurd.

A theory is a model for testing evidence.
Once the evidence is conclusively tested, the theory becomes a fact or is
discarded.

Come off it already Chuckie. Just admit you shot from the hip on this one in an
attempt to try and embarrass the current administration.

After all, that is your normal MO, isn't it?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Come off it already Chuckie. Just admit you shot from the hip on this one in
an
attempt to try and embarrass the current administration.

After all, that is your normal MO, isn't it?


JIm, if I wanted to embarrass the current administration, I'd point out that
GWB quickly assured us all the problem was caused by a lightning strike at
Niagara Falls. That turns out to be untrue. Notice that I didn't do that. Those
who are keeping score of the president's errors, misstatements, and misuses of
the truth won't even notice another one- and those who think he's St. George
will deny he said it three seconds after the broadcast.

My comment abut the Homeland Security Forces arresting the guys from Pakistan
could just as easily demonstrate that the Bush adminsitration is doing what it
perceives its job to be. There was no mention of Bush in my original post.

You are aware, I hope, that Al Qaida is now claiming credit for the blackout?
They are gloating that they were able to bribe somebody a mere $7000 to cause
what they claim is at least a $10 billion loss to the US treasury. I say they
proably didn't do it, and are just trying to ride the wave of publicity.

As I said in the original post. The guys from Pakistan tryinig to fly a day
before the blackout was probably just a coincidence. You, of course, need to
overlook that because 90% of what you post here is a personal attack on other
posters or a political attack on liberals or democrats.
If you can't find an issue to fight about, you'll invent one. Your previous
incarnations, Fox Trot, Charles Daniels,
Dennis Compton, and whatever else you've changed your name to over the months
were no better.

What shames a guy so badly that he has to not only hide his name, but keep
changing the alias?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"jps" wrote in message ...
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
but the National Weather Service said
the closest lightning strike in the area was hundreds of miles away,
in Maryland.

But....the president repeated that rumor. It must be true. The lightning
was
purchased secretly on the international arms market. From Africa.


In the unlikely event that it *was* a terrorist attack, we'd be smart to
blame
it on lightning. Take away the credit for the disaster, and the air is let
out
of the terrorist balloon double quick.

You want to P off the terrorists? Make sure they stay out of the news.

That would be smart but it certainly wouldn't be the course this
administration would take. You can be certain if there was a whiff of
possibility this could've been attributable to human hands, the White House
would've used the opportunity to bolster poll numbers.

Then kudos to the White House. They have either made the "smart" move
and denied terrorists any publicity, or they have refrained from using
the incident for political gain.

(Unlike politicians such as Mrs. Clinton, who, before the lights even
came back on, was crying out about how this was the Bush
administration's fault.)

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

You sure do like to cut a sentence or two out of a post and try to make that
the whole issue. I was wondering who'd step up to the plate to take Skipper's
place, now that he seems to be MIA. Moving to Kansas soon?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold type or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or just
hear their blades turning?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:35:51 GMT, "Bill Cole"
wrote:

I have no problem with rec.boats being used to shot the ****, but don't try
to fool ourselves that we are having trying to find resolution or prove or
disprove a theory, it is nothing more that idle chitchat. Just take a look
at any of basskisser's post to see us at our best.

Ah,...but there you've done it. Do you see?
noah

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:51 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold type or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:51 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal insults) on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to explain?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:28:25 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:51 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal insults) on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to explain?

....because I thought that you were one that could understand.
Some can't, or won't.
Regards,
noah

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:28:25 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:51 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold
type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being
assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal insults)
on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to explain?

...because I thought that you were one that could understand.
Some can't, or won't.
Regards,
noah

I can certainly understand Noah, even though you resorted to a sublime level of what
you are accusing me of. Pot-kettle-black.

Focus your attention on the ones infiltrating this NG with filth and disrespect.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:24:58 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:28:25 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:51 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The sky is not falling Chuck. It must be tough living in your shoes.

Never said the sky was falling.

Your comment came through my server in bold type. Huge font. Yelling won't make
you seem any smarter (than however smart you already appear to be).

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no bold
type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being
assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal insults)
on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to explain?

...because I thought that you were one that could understand.
Some can't, or won't.
Regards,
noah

I can certainly understand Noah, even though you resorted to a sublime level of what
you are accusing me of. Pot-kettle-black.

Focus your attention on the ones infiltrating this NG with filth and disrespect.

Lame. For a while, you had promise.
"..filth and disrespect." ??
Good golly, Miss Molly.

Adios,
noah

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no
bold type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the
time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being
assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal
insults) on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to
explain?

Hey, Jim. You claim I've been assaulting you with personal insults?

Well I'm sorry as hell if that's true.

Tell you what. I'll toss you a challenge.
I will not respond to any of your posts henceforward, (that will eliminate any
need for you to endure my onslaught of personal insults), and all I ask in
return is that you not respond to any of mine.

Since according to you, I'm the one that always starts the name calling and
personal attacks, there won't be any under this arrangement. It's painfully
apparent that neither of us has an interest in any constructive communication
with the other, so let's just ignore each other and knock off the exchanges of
grade school crapola.
Agreed?

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I can't help it if you are having problems with your server. There was no
bold type
or
huge fonts Chuckie, so stop being so paranoid.

I am curious though....do you see black helicopters following you all the
time or
just
hear their blades turning?

Why do you persist in personal insults? It highlights your lack of
factual rebuttal, and minimizes any argument that you offer.
noah

I normally refrain from personal insults....I only resort to them after being
assaulted
with them from the other side.

But the larger picture is why you don't focus your attention (on personal
insults) on
the main players of that group, namely Krause, jps and basskisser? Care to
explain?

Hey, Jim. You claim I've been assaulting you with personal insults?

Well I'm sorry as hell if that's true.

Tell you what. I'll toss you a challenge.
I will not respond to any of your posts henceforward, (that will eliminate any
need for you to endure my onslaught of personal insults), and all I ask in
return is that you not respond to any of mine.

Since according to you, I'm the one that always starts the name calling and
personal attacks, there won't be any under this arrangement. It's painfully
apparent that neither of us has an interest in any constructive communication
with the other, so let's just ignore each other and knock off the exchanges of
grade school crapola.
Agreed?



Sounds like a plan. Lets shake on it.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


I think federalizing the security folks was a Democrat-pushed idea that
the
administration caved under. Why? Heat of the moment, decisions based on
urgency
and pressure rather than objective analysis. The Dems love the idea of
thousands
of new AFGE members, and a bigger government.

Bull****.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


No, Chuck, I said, "I think federalizing the security folks was a
Democrat-pushed idea that the administration caved under." By this I meant
the
federalizing of the thousands of screening personnel at the airports.
Perhaps I
was unclear. I apologize. I think the Department of Homeland Security was
a good
idea, as long as it consolidated and made more efficient the operations of
the
agencies it subsumed.

Bull****.

The privately hired screeners were overwhelmingly incompetent. What would
YOUR solution have been, if YOU were king of the world? Take the CEOs of the
private security companies out for a round of golf and make them buy dinner
afterward, to punish them for being such slobs???

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

I think federalizing the security folks was a Democrat-pushed idea that
the
administration caved under. Why? Heat of the moment, decisions based on
urgency
and pressure rather than objective analysis. The Dems love the idea of
thousands
of new AFGE members, and a bigger government.

Bull****.

Don't be so hard on John H.

Millions of people sincerely believe that every good idea ever spawned
originated in the Republican party, and every lousy idea
originated with the Demomcrats. Should they have any doubt, they can tune in to
thier favorite radio station to be assured that their belief is well founded.

This even applies to glaring missteps made by the President. "He only went
along because of all the pressure from the (minority party) in Congress!"

To be completely fair, there are a lot of Democrats holding the oppopsite
perspective.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...


No, Chuck, I said, "I think federalizing the security folks was a
Democrat-pushed idea that the administration caved under." By this I
meant
the
federalizing of the thousands of screening personnel at the airports.
Perhaps I
was unclear. I apologize. I think the Department of Homeland Security
was
a good
idea, as long as it consolidated and made more efficient the operations
of
the
agencies it subsumed.

Bull****.

The privately hired screeners were overwhelmingly incompetent. What would
YOUR solution have been, if YOU were king of the world? Take the CEOs of
the
private security companies out for a round of golf and make them buy
dinner
afterward, to punish them for being such slobs???



Was a bad idea! They hired the same people that were "incompetent" for the
present federal jobs. And if you think that making the jobs federal
instilled competence, you have not flown since.
Bill

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:54:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


No, Chuck, I said, "I think federalizing the security folks was a
Democrat-pushed idea that the administration caved under." By this I meant
the
federalizing of the thousands of screening personnel at the airports.
Perhaps I
was unclear. I apologize. I think the Department of Homeland Security was
a good
idea, as long as it consolidated and made more efficient the operations of
the
agencies it subsumed.

Bull****.

The privately hired screeners were overwhelmingly incompetent. What would
YOUR solution have been, if YOU were king of the world? Take the CEOs of the
private security companies out for a round of golf and make them buy dinner
afterward, to punish them for being such slobs???

Were I king of the world - wow!

I would prevent the airplane from being used as a weapon. I would close the
(reinforced) cockpit doors and tell the flight crew to stay in the cockpit. We
would play the Israeli game. Pilots don't go back to save stewards. They fly the
plane.

I would attempt to stop only those weapons which could bring down the airplane.
This would include firearms, explosives, and rocket-propelled grenades (or their
equivalent). I would not waste my time with knives, box cutters, or any other
item which can be used as a weapon against only an individual. Individuals are
important, but no more so in the air than on the ground.

This would relieve the security personnel of the requirement to find each and
every little thing that can be used as a weapon against only individuals. Your
'incompetency' arguments were based primarily on news reports which should Joe
Lib taking forty-seven pairs of scissors and twelve box-cutters through
security.

The private security companies were not being held to any standards. Who
controlled them? I would have had no problems with the government becoming the
contracting officer and monitoring the security companies. Of course, this would
not have required doubling the strength of the AFGE.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On 25 Aug 2003 15:24:46 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I think federalizing the security folks was a Democrat-pushed idea that
the
administration caved under. Why? Heat of the moment, decisions based on
urgency
and pressure rather than objective analysis. The Dems love the idea of
thousands
of new AFGE members, and a bigger government.

Bull****.

Don't be so hard on John H.

Millions of people sincerely believe that every good idea ever spawned
originated in the Republican party, and every lousy idea
originated with the Demomcrats. Should they have any doubt, they can tune in to
thier favorite radio station to be assured that their belief is well founded.

This even applies to glaring missteps made by the President. "He only went
along because of all the pressure from the (minority party) in Congress!"

To be completely fair, there are a lot of Democrats holding the oppopsite
perspective.

Could you say, instead of 'a lot', that the number would be in the millions. You
seem to relish taking shots at those (Republicans) who listen to the radio. Do
Democrats not listen to the radio? Have you ever listened to the radio?

Here is a quote you can print and paste on the wall:

"If you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic
missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to
kill with such weapons? He's already demonstrated a willingness to use these
weapons. He poison-gassed his own people. He used poison gas and other weapons
of mass destruction against his neighbors. This man has no compunction about
killing lots and lots of people." Dec. 16, 1998

Who said it?

Who, also in 1998, said that if Saddam Hussein was not stopped he would "rebuild
an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you
he'll use the arsenal."

Now, have a great day!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...


No, Chuck, I said, "I think federalizing the security folks was a
Democrat-pushed idea that the administration caved under." By this I
meant
the
federalizing of the thousands of screening personnel at the
airports.
Perhaps I
was unclear. I apologize. I think the Department of Homeland
Security
was
a good
idea, as long as it consolidated and made more efficient the
operations
of
the
agencies it subsumed.

Bull****.

The privately hired screeners were overwhelmingly incompetent. What
would
YOUR solution have been, if YOU were king of the world? Take the CEOs
of
the
private security companies out for a round of golf and make them buy
dinner
afterward, to punish them for being such slobs???



Was a bad idea! They hired the same people that were "incompetent" for
the
present federal jobs. And if you think that making the jobs federal
instilled competence, you have not flown since.
Bill

I've flown since. Here in Rochester, the "upgrade" in the search procedure
was remarkable. Same at Charlotte, San Juan, O'Hare, LaGuardia and Boston.

Your comment contained the standard disdain for anything "federal". Like
it
or not, there is MORE consistency now, not LESS. It's out of the hands of
the parties who are LEAST able to decide what's good: The airlines.


I have a lot of disdain for making a lot of things Federal controlled!!!!!!
I have gone though security at Oakland and then taken the same baggage
through security at LAX. There they decide the nail manicure kit is now a
weapon. Standards? Crap! I can do more damage with a Bic pen than my 1"
Swiss Army knife. The 9/11 hijackers used Federal security procedures to
hijack the planes. The FAA told the pilots and crew to cooperate with
hijackers. Just because no one had used the plane as a weapon, they said to
go along and they will negotiate with the baddies when you ended up in
Bumlife country. If everyone got to carry their knives as we used to, you
think a hijacker with a boxcutter is going to survive more than 2-3 minutes?
As to Federal control, look what they have done to education in this
country. All the money taken from the states and then sent back at 40-60%
with multiple strings attached. Where has states rights gone? Has been
usurped via the above strings.
Bill

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...


The private security companies were not being held to any standards. Who
controlled them? I would have had no problems with the government
becoming
the
contracting officer and monitoring the security companies. Of course,
this
would
not have required doubling the strength of the AFGE.


"Who controlled them?" They were controlled by the airlines. Remember,
before 9/11 how often you heard, in the news, "....airlines argue that
passengers won't put up with being inconvenienced by more stringent
security
checks"???



And the airlines were correct. Look at travel. Airline's are hurting as
the amount of travel has fallen drastically. The economy is part of it, but
the fact that it takes 3-4 hours at the airport a lot of the time has caused
people to drive to weekend vacations, etc. My daughters both live in the
Los Angeles area, and I have experienced my daughter driving from LA to
arrive at the house the same time as wife and I arrived back from flying.
It is 12 hours driving and $75 in gas vs 10 hours and $150 in airfair for
the round trip. Sometimes we fly, but lots of people are driving.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...


The private security companies were not being held to any standards.
Who
controlled them? I would have had no problems with the government
becoming
the
contracting officer and monitoring the security companies. Of course,
this
would
not have required doubling the strength of the AFGE.


"Who controlled them?" They were controlled by the airlines. Remember,
before 9/11 how often you heard, in the news, "....airlines argue that
passengers won't put up with being inconvenienced by more stringent
security
checks"???



And the airlines were correct. Look at travel. Airline's are hurting as
the amount of travel has fallen drastically. The economy is part of it,
but
the fact that it takes 3-4 hours at the airport a lot of the time has
caused
people to drive to weekend vacations, etc. My daughters both live in the
Los Angeles area, and I have experienced my daughter driving from LA to
arrive at the house the same time as wife and I arrived back from flying.
It is 12 hours driving and $75 in gas vs 10 hours and $150 in airfair for
the round trip. Sometimes we fly, but lots of people are driving.

Maybe the economy. But, I'd love to see actual data to indicate that people
won't fly because of the security check process. Most of the people I've
spoken to who won't fly are more concerned with the fact that before 9/11,
there were already a host of problems with airline safety, and not just from
terrorism. 9/11 was the icing on the cake. Before that, we already had to
deal with design errors, excessive traffic & delays, outdated traffic
control systems, and crew members with attitude problems because of
seemingly endless labor disputes.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


No response to the rest of my post? You're too easy on me.

Exactly, the airlines controlled them and there were no standards.

Thank you.

John

The remainder didn't merit much response. As 9/11 proved, it's absurd to
theorize about what objects could be used as weapons. Therefore, it
accomplishes nothing to discuss nailclippers and who should or should not
have them. A terrorist could easily use his shirt to garrot someone and then
break their neck.

If you'd like to read something constructive, go he
http://www.secure-skies.org/

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 25 Aug 2003 15:24:46 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I think federalizing the security folks was a Democrat-pushed idea that
the
administration caved under. Why? Heat of the moment, decisions based on
urgency
and pressure rather than objective analysis. The Dems love the idea of
thousands
of new AFGE members, and a bigger government.

Bull****.

Don't be so hard on John H.

Millions of people sincerely believe that every good idea ever spawned
originated in the Republican party, and every lousy idea
originated with the Demomcrats. Should they have any doubt, they can tune in to
thier favorite radio station to be assured that their belief is well founded.

This even applies to glaring missteps made by the President. "He only went
along because of all the pressure from the (minority party) in Congress!"

To be completely fair, there are a lot of Democrats holding the oppopsite
perspective.

Could you say, instead of 'a lot', that the number would be in the millions. You
seem to relish taking shots at those (Republicans) who listen to the radio. Do
Democrats not listen to the radio? Have you ever listened to the radio?

Here is a quote you can print and paste on the wall:

"If you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic
missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to
kill with such weapons? He's already demonstrated a willingness to use these
weapons. He poison-gassed his own people. He used poison gas and other weapons
of mass destruction against his neighbors. This man has no compunction about
killing lots and lots of people." Dec. 16, 1998

Who said it?

Who, also in 1998, said that if Saddam Hussein was not stopped he would "rebuild
an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you
he'll use the arsenal."

Now, have a great day!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:19:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


No response to the rest of my post? You're too easy on me.

Exactly, the airlines controlled them and there were no standards.

Thank you.

John

The remainder didn't merit much response. As 9/11 proved, it's absurd to
theorize about what objects could be used as weapons. Therefore, it
accomplishes nothing to discuss nailclippers and who should or should not
have them. A terrorist could easily use his shirt to garrot someone and then
break their neck.

If you'd like to read something constructive, go he
http://www.secure-skies.org/

In other words, you couldn't refute the arguments.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:53:12 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


Not our Chuckie, surely!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:53:12 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


Not our Chuckie, surely!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout, with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.

At the risk of pointing out the painfully obvious, you posed the question with
an alternate of choice as suggested answers. Not the same thing. It is only
marginally more reasonable to conclude that a terrorist caused the power
shortage than
to conclude it was caused by the Seattle Police. The Seattle Police have a ZERO
percent involvement with the outage, so terrorists have a zero, plus a couple,
percent probability of being the cause.

Unlike the terrorists, the Seattle Police have *not* claimed responsibility for
the blackout.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Gould,
I did not read that the two terrorist who were arrested in Seattle claimed
to have caused the blackout. Coincidence? Probably, but maybe not.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused
the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout,
with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists
atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.

At the risk of pointing out the painfully obvious, you posed the question
with
an alternate of choice as suggested answers. Not the same thing. It is
only
marginally more reasonable to conclude that a terrorist caused the power
shortage than
to conclude it was caused by the Seattle Police. The Seattle Police have a
ZERO
percent involvement with the outage, so terrorists have a zero, plus a
couple,
percent probability of being the cause.

Unlike the terrorists, the Seattle Police have *not* claimed
responsibility for
the blackout.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:19:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


No response to the rest of my post? You're too easy on me.

Exactly, the airlines controlled them and there were no standards.

Thank you.

John

The remainder didn't merit much response. As 9/11 proved, it's absurd to
theorize about what objects could be used as weapons. Therefore, it
accomplishes nothing to discuss nailclippers and who should or should not
have them. A terrorist could easily use his shirt to garrot someone and
then
break their neck.

If you'd like to read something constructive, go he
http://www.secure-skies.org/


In other words, you couldn't refute the arguments.

You could read it that way. But the reality is twofold: First of all, your
talking about a random sampling of passengers. A certain portion is like my
ex-wife and thinks violence for any purpose is wrong. Giving them a weapon
of any kind would be pointless. They'd die like sheep, and happily. Another
portion would be like the woman in the movie "Airplane" who panics, and
everyone in the plane lines up to slap her around. The remaining portion
MIGHT contain a few who'd go into warrior mode, and they'd have a good
chance of success even if they used just their hands. (I'm partial to
ripping the lunch tray off and using the twisted metal brackets as weapons).

The other half: I really don't have time to respond to everything,
especially when you already know all the answers.

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused
the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout,
with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists
atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.


Chuck, it was either you or Noah who once told me that I was talking to a
dial tone, perhaps as I was trying to get Dave Hall to wake up. You may be
talking to a dial tone now. Some of the people here can't see past the
right/left wing labels and read the words you've written. It was plainly
obvious that your original comment was just an interesting question posed as
food for thought. If "the authorities" explored every idea this way, perhaps
they'd be a step ahead of terrorists more often.

Matter of fact, some of the authorities *do* think this way. (Get a load of
the lawyer's comment in the last paragraph. He's a candidate for a pie in
the face, at the very least). :

The New York Times
August 24, 2003
Canada Links Arrest of 19 to Possible Terrorism Ties
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS

TORONTO, Aug. 23 — A document filed at a detention hearing this week for 19
students and other immigrants from Pakistan detained by Canadian security
officials for possible ties to terrorism cited a "pattern of fraudulent
document use to obtain or maintain immigrant status" by the men, ages 18 to
33.

The men were detained on Aug. 14 after an investigation found that one of
them was taking flying lessons at a school near an Ontario nuclear power
plant.

Officials would disclose little about the investigation, but the four-page
document sketched a picture of a mysterious group of men living in
apartments with only computers and mattresses. The men appeared interested
in explosives and in the Pickering Nuclear Generating Station outside
Toronto, according to the document.

There had been unexplained fires in at least two of the men's apartments,
and in police monitoring, two of the men had been seen walking outside the
gates of the Pickering plant at 4:15 a.m. on a day in April 2002. The men
said they wanted to take a walk on a beach.

One man was training to fly at a school whose flight paths cross over the
Pickering plant, the document said. It said the men were in contact with
unidentified sources who "have access to nuclear gauges" that contain small
amounts of the isotope cesium 137, which can be used for making crude
nuclear explosives.

"Based upon the structure of this group, their associations and connected
events, there is a reasonable suspicion that these persons pose a threat to
national security," the document said.

There seems little likelihood that the group was anywhere near to carrying
out an attack. Government spokesmen played down the threat to security.

But the court document said a man who had lived with one suspect had worked
for a charity group named Global Relief Foundation, which the United Nations
has linked to supporters of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

Some men are being held on immigration violations and others without
charges. Under new antiterrorism laws, landed immigrants and foreign
citizens can be detained several days on suspicion of threatening national
security. A closed detention hearing is expected next week.

An investigation into at least some of the men by the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police and other security forces has apparently been going on for more than
a year. A police hot line received the first tips about the group shortly
after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

A Canadian immigration officer in Mexico City became suspicious in February
of an application by one of the men for permanent residency to attend an
Ottawa business college. The man had no apparent source of income, but
showed a bank balance of $40,000.

The school turned out to be a fraudulent operation. Investigators found that
31 Pakistanis had used the school to enter Canada.

Mohammed Syed, a Toronto lawyer representing two suspects, said the police
action "smacks of racism because they happen to be from Pakistan and are
Muslim."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search |
Corrections | Help | Back to Top

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Gould,
I did not read that the two terrorist who were arrested in Seattle claimed
to have caused the blackout. Coincidence? Probably, but maybe not.

And you would not have, either. The term "terrorists" can refer to more than
just two people arrested in Seattle. By the way, I have a well founded theory
that it wasn't the Secret Service, either.

By the remote chance that you're not simply smart assing off and really did
miss the terrorists' claim to have caused the blackout, here is the substance:

*******************

Al Qaida claims responsibility for blackout



SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, August 18, 2003
Al Qaida's Abu Hafs Brigades has claimed responsibility for the blackout last
week in the Northeast and Midwest United States. A communiqué by the Abu Hafs
Brigades made reference to Operation Quick Lightning in the Land of the Tyrant
of this Generation."

It was published as "the third communiqué by the "Brigades."

In the first, they accepted responsibility for the downing of an airplane in
Kenya. The second accepted responsibility for the Jakarta bombing of the
Marriott hotel on August 5, 2003.

The new communiqué says that in compliance with the orders of Osama bin Laden
to strike at the American economy, the Brigades struck two important
electricity supply targets on the East coast, according to the Middle East
Media Research Institute. The Brigades say that they cannot reveal how they did
it, because they will probably have to use the same method again soon. The
communiqué also claimed that the operation was meant as a present for the
Iraqi people.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Health insurance for the self-employed: Special offer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
The following are excerpts from a report by the London-based Arabic daily
Al-Hayat about the communiqué: [1]

The Blackout was 'a Realization of Bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi
people a present'
"A communiqué attributed to Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the power
blackout that happened in the U.S. last Thursday, saying that the brigades of
Abu Fahes Al Masri had hit two main power plants supplying the East of the
U.S., as well as major industrial cities in the U.S. and Canada, 'its ally in
the war against Islam (New York and Toronto) and their neighbors.'
"The communiqué assured that the operation 'was carried out on the orders of
Osama bin Laden to hit the pillars of the U.S. economy,' as 'a realization of
bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi people a present.'


'The Americans lived a black day they will never forget'
"The statement, which Al-Hayat obtained from the website of the International
Islamic Media Center, didn't specify the way the alleged sabotage was carried
out. The communiqué read: 'let the criminal Bush and his gang know that the
punishment is the result of the action, the soldiers of God cut the power on
these cities, they darkened the lives of the Americans as these criminals
blackened the lives of the Muslim people in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.
The Americans lived a black day they will never forget. They lived a day of
terror and fear… a state of chaos and confusion where looting and pillaging
rampaged the cities, just like the capital of the caliphate Baghdad, and
Afghanistan and Palestine were. Let the American people take a sip from the
same glass.'

'The U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met'
"It added: 'we heard amazing statements made by the American and Canadian
enemies which have nuclear physics universities and space agencies, that
lightning hit and destroyed the two plants. And we are supposed to believe this
nonsense. If the blackout occurred in one or two cities, their lie would have
been credible. But the fact is that the blackout hit the entire East and part
of Canada.'
"The communiqué continued: 'one of the benefits of this strike is that the
U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met, such as releasing all
the detainees including Sheikh Omar Abdulrahman, and getting out of the land of
the Muslims, including Jerusalem and Kashmir.'

"The authors of the communiqué said that the strikes aimed at 'hitting the
major pillar of the U.S. economy (the Stock Exchange)… [and] the UN, which is
opposed to Islam, and is based in New York. It is a message to all the
investors that the U.S. is no longer a safe country for their money, knowing
that the U.S. economy greatly relies on the trust of the investor…'


'The gift of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden is on its way to the White House'
"The communiqué mentioned that some economists said the blackout in the U.S.
and Canada would cost the U.S. Treasury no less than ten billion U.S. dollars
and in order to 'break the hearts of U.S. officials, just know that the cost
paid by the Moujahideen to sabotage the power plants was a mere seven thousand
dollars. Die of sorrow!'
"The communiqué ended with: 'we tell the Muslims that this is not the awaited
strike, but it is called the war of skirmishes (to drain the enemy), and that
the American snakes are enormous and need to be consumed and weakened to be
destroyed. We tell the people of Afghanistan and Kashmir that the gift of
Sheikh Osama bin Laden is on its way to the White House; then the gift of Al
Aqsa, and do we know what is the gift of Al Aqsa, where and when? The answer is
what you are seeing!'

[1] Published in English on Dar Al-Hayat website, August 18, 2003,
http://english.daralhayat.com/arab_n...0818-14bdd659-
c0a8-01ed-0079-6e1c903b7552/story.html

OT- Power outage in NY. Coincidence?
 

Chuck, it was either you or Noah who once told me that I was talking to a
dial tone, perhaps as I was trying to get Dave Hall to wake up. You may be
talking to a dial tone now.

Naw, Cole is just po'd because a third party proved he was full of horse pucky
(when he declared that people who didn't realize the Secret Service was
providing security for presidential candidates at this stage in the process
were "stupid.")
There are some people in the world who are so personally insecure they think
they are subject to being shot, drawn, and quartered for ever being wrong.
Let's hope
Wm Cole isn't in that unfortunate category.
Success is being right more than 50% of the time, not 100. :-)