Tamaroak wrote:
I have a trawler which I captain for charter on Lake Superior. In
reading over the requirements in 46CFR67.23 I find "recreational
endorsement entitles a vessel to pleasure use only." 46CFR67.325 states
"a vessel documented exclusively for recreation may not be used for
purposes other than pleasure." I subsequently obtained the waiver, as I
really couldn't think of anything I would rather spend the $500 on.

I'm reading this to state that all who fail to obtain either the waiver,
coastwise, or Great Lakes endorsements on our documentation are in
violation of this every time we take someone out for hire.

I'm told that even though the USCG may not be overly concerned about
enforcing this, one insurance company could deny a large claim if I were
operating outside the limits of my documentation.

Comments??

Capt. Jeff

I thought the waiver had to do with using a foreign built boat for
charter, not a US built boat.

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:39:04 -0400, Jeff wrote:

I thought the waiver had to do with using a foreign built boat for
charter, not a US built boat.

Most recreational trawlers are foreign built. Not sure if it makes a
difference or not with regard to charters, but your insurance company
definitely needs to know if you are chartering.

I have a trawler which I captain for charter on Lake Superior. In
reading over the requirements in 46CFR67.23 I find "recreational
endorsement entitles a vessel to pleasure use only." 46CFR67.325 states
"a vessel documented exclusively for recreation may not be used for
purposes other than pleasure." I subsequently obtained the waiver, as I
really couldn't think of anything I would rather spend the $500 on.

I'm reading this to state that all who fail to obtain either the waiver,
coastwise, or Great Lakes endorsements on our documentation are in
violation of this every time we take someone out for hire.

I'm told that even though the USCG may not be overly concerned about
enforcing this, one insurance company could deny a large claim if I were
operating outside the limits of my documentation.

Comments??

Capt. Jeff

It does, that's why I had to get it, but it also allows commercial use,
which the recreational documentation does not, in my opinion.

Capt. Jeff

And my insurance company does know about the chartering, although they
specifically prohibit bareboat w/o a captain, but they don't ask
questions about the documentation issue. Why not?

And it's interesting that it appears you can charter your boat for
bareboat without a captain on a recreational documentation.

Capt. Jeff

Tamaroak wrote:
I have a trawler which I captain for charter
I find "recreational
endorsement entitles a vessel to pleasure use only." 46CFR67.325 states
"a vessel documented exclusively for recreation may not be used for
purposes other than pleasure.

I'm reading this to state that all who fail to obtain either the waiver,
coastwise, or Great Lakes endorsements on our documentation are in
violation of this every time we take someone out for hire.
Comments??

Capt. Jeff

Okay........... so are you saying if I have a 16' sailboat on inland
waters and give sailing lessons I need a USCG OUPV or Master of some
GRT tons inland?

REC Bob

a 16' sailboat is not eligible for documentation.

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I have a trawler which I captain for charter
I find "recreational
endorsement entitles a vessel to pleasure use only." 46CFR67.325 states
"a vessel documented exclusively for recreation may not be used for
purposes other than pleasure.

I'm reading this to state that all who fail to obtain either the waiver,
coastwise, or Great Lakes endorsements on our documentation are in
violation of this every time we take someone out for hire.
Comments??

Capt. Jeff

Okay........... so are you saying if I have a 16' sailboat on inland
waters and give sailing lessons I need a USCG OUPV or Master of some
GRT tons inland?

REC Bob

William Andersen wrote:
a 16' sailboat is not eligible for documentation.

Hi William:

Very good. Since you caught that a vessel's documentation eligibility
is not determined by length, what is the minimum vessel GRT eligible
for documentation?

So then my question wold be................is a sailboat boat of not
more than 100 GRT and carring 6 or less pasangers for hire (SubChapter
C) engaged in sailing lessons on inland waters but documented
Recreational legal? Or does that little sailboat need to be documented
Coast Wise and have an OUPV?

In other words, if I give sailing lessons on a river and my boat is
documented Recreational, am I breaking any CFR?
Bob

Bob wrote:
William Andersen wrote:
a 16' sailboat is not eligible for documentation.

Hi William:

Very good. Since you caught that a vessel's documentation eligibility
is not determined by length, what is the minimum vessel GRT eligible
for documentation?

So then my question wold be................is a sailboat boat of not
more than 100 GRT and carring 6 or less pasangers for hire (SubChapter
C) engaged in sailing lessons on inland waters but documented
Recreational legal? Or does that little sailboat need to be documented
Coast Wise and have an OUPV?

In other words, if I give sailing lessons on a river and my boat is
documented Recreational, am I breaking any CFR?
Bob

All sailboat instructions are exempt from these parts of the CFR, in my
interpretation of the law. Powerboat chartering is different, and I
believe powerboat instruction is, too, but don't take my word for it.

You CAN be documented if you are more than 5 net tons (usually around
25'), measured the way the USCG measures it. See their web site on
vessel documentation for detailed explanation.

Capt. jeff

Tamaroak wrote:

All sailboat instructions are exempt from these parts of the CFR, in my
interpretation of the law. Powerboat chartering is different, and I
believe powerboat instruction is, too, but don't take my word for it.
Capt. jeff


Hi Capt Jeff:
Thanks for the details. So would it be possible to "charter" your
trawler as a Recreational boat if everyone was "actively engaged in
learning?" I have never heard about a "Documentation Waiver"
Are you documented Recreational AND doing Subchapter C uninspected
passenger vessel work? Are you also the master? Is this Beyond the
boundary Line stuff or Inland?

Where do you do your chartering. Is it a sight seeing sort of thing?
I am very interested in a similar thing. I am not trolling or anything
here. Just genuinely interested.

In may case I am not sure how hard I want to push the IRS Hobby - Loss
3/5 year obstacle. All the reading I found relating to charter
operations is that they are real dollar eaten propositions with an even
more bleak forecast. And add to that the advice I got from my CPA about
hobby- loss.

Always interested in finding a way to ease the cash out flow regarding
my boat. (Yea, know keep dreaming..)
Suggestions?
The Frugal Sailor, Bob