Per Michael Daly:
Now that someone has done it, perhaps other car manufacturers can provide
a similar system and we can use _one_ roof rack system with lots of
vehicles without major compatibility problems.

I've never tried it, but have heard several times from people who seem to know
that the ultimate retrofit system is those bolt-on gutter-simulators.

I've got a Suburban with the factory rails on it. They've worked so far, but
my suspicion is that the bolt-on gutters would have been just as strong or
stronger and allowed the load tb 3-4" lower down.
--
PeteCresswell

On 3-Apr-2006, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

I've never tried it, but have heard several times from people who seem to know
that the ultimate retrofit system is those bolt-on gutter-simulators.

Why would I want to bolt something old-fashioned on the outside of the vehicle
when it is so simple for the car makers to build something _inside_ the vehicle?
Gutters were a bad design back in the day and a bad design now - noise and
wind resistance with no real advantage.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
On 3-Apr-2006, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Gutters were a bad design back in the day and a bad design now - noise and
wind resistance with no real advantage.

There are still some advantages of rain gutters. The most useful is
that a raingutter along the lenght of a vehicel roofline allows the
crossbars to be positioned anywhere, and not just where at factory
predetermined locations.

One of the few vehicle types that still has raingutters is full sized
vans. Ford, Chevy and Dodge vans all still have raingutters.

On a long roofline like a van having raingutters is wonderful. I use a
triple crossbar rack system, with the front and rear crossbars at the
far ends of the roofline (which makes it easier to solo load and unload
boats). The middle crossbar can be loosened and slid forward or
backward to better acommodate boats of different lengths.

Nah, I still like the adavantages of raingutters, and still use (and
perfer) a variety of DIY'ed Quick and Easy roof racks if raingutters
areavailable.

Per Michael Daly:
Why would I want to bolt something old-fashioned on the outside of the vehicle
when it is so simple for the car makers to build something _inside_ the vehicle?

1) Because the makers may not be doing so on the vehicle you prefer.

2) So you can pick the horizontal locations. For instance, some rooftop boxes
have indents for the crossbars. If the crossbars aren't located at the
indents you have to drill new holes in the box and the box rides a couple of
inches higher. Or for carrying something like a surf ski (19-20 feet long)
where you want the thing as far back as possible to minimize windage.

3) To allow for a more generic interface. Instead of having to find a set of
racks whose posts mate to a given make/model, you can choose from any
set made for rain gutters.

4) To have a known quantity. When you drill through the vehicle's structure,
you have some feeling for how strong the attachments will be. With the maker
providing their own mount points you have to trust that their strength
will be adequate. Yes, this one is a stretch.... but I can't help recalling
Chevy's Astrovan having it's front seats/seatbelt mounts pull out some years
back in whatever standard crash test it was subjected to.
--
PeteCresswell

On 4-Apr-2006, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

1) Because the makers may not be doing so on the vehicle you prefer.

But I want the makers to realize that, for folks like us, this sort of thing
determines which vehicle we prefer.


2) So you can pick the horizontal locations. [...]

3) To allow for a more generic interface. [...]

See my response to Wilko.

4) To have a known quantity. When you drill through the vehicle's structure,
you have some feeling for how strong the attachments will be.

See answer to number 1) above.

Your approach leaves us with makers who don't really need to consider this part
of the market as one that should be serviced. They build whatever _they_ want
and you modify it with whatever you can find. I want them to make the vehicle
_I_ want and provide a simple, reliable and standard facilities that adapt to a large
number of outdoor enthusiasts. Many cars now have standard attachment points
for child seats - I want standard attachment points for grownup toys.

Mike